Immersion: Glorified Dimensional Travel

[Catzlaflame]

I don’t think immersion should be an ability on the wiki; I will state my points individually.

It shouldn’t have even existed in the first place

Here’s the thread that got immersion accepted as an ability. See the issue? ZERO evaluation staff approvals. Ik we were lax with this stuff back then, but having no other evaluating staff inputting is just another level of lax.

Compare this to nowadays when abilities (that are typically more unique anyway) are subject to way more scrutiny.

Issue

For those who don’t know, immersion is the ability to travel into a fictional world i.e., to travel into novels, paintings, yada yada.

The current justification read as so:

Immersion is an ability which allows one to cross the boundary between fiction and reality and enter the imaginary locations depicted in books, paintings, movies etc.

The Issue with this is that terms like “cross the boundary between fiction and reality” read as if immersion would allow a character to go from a “real” world into a fictional world while still retaining the transcendental nature that comes with that. We know from the recent standard revisions that doing so would, in fact, contradict/debunk the character actually having a genuine r>f transcendence.

Well then what does that leave? The instances where r>f is present, but just not a real r>f transcendence. Like the toon force-y stuff where characters enter fictional works, but demonstrate that the fictional works aren’t any “less real” compared to reality

Looking at it from THAT perspective, we realize that… it’s… literally.. just traveling to a different space/realm…. aka Dimensional Travel.

Back when this page was made, we weren’t as strict with our r>f standards, so the page probably was intended to be dimensional travel thats like exclusive to genuine r>f…. NOW that genuine r>f and dimensional travel absolutely can’t intersect like that… the page is kinda moot.

Like a fictional place that isn’t actually fictional is just… any another place, are we gonna give pages to abilities that are essentially just dimensional but vary based only on what dimension/realm you’re traveling to????

I say nay. We might as well make an entire ability dedicated to specifically traveling into a character’s mental space under this logic.

Proposal/Workload

im not just proposing something without a plan for implementation. There’s 2 options:

1. I can change all of the links
2. I can just add a redirect

(1) is more work, but looks better (if this is the better option I’ll be handling the workload myself so don’t worry about manpower) (2) is easier but may not look as nice

Honestly all the same to me, and functions relatively the same way in practice as well.

Anyway, Let me know what y’all think

 

[Catzlaflame]

@SamanPatou @DarkDragonMedeus @DontTalkDT @Antvasima @Mr. Bambu @Maverick_Zero_X @Deagonx @Qawsedf234

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I agree, and if it can be handled easily by a bot then I have little issue with implementing changes. I'd prefer Option 1.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I mean, I've read some novels where a character goes down into a fictional reality. Because they're more real than their surroundings a single one of their actions, like breathing too hard can destroy the entire fictional dimension they're in. In the end, they had to create a special method to limit themselves while down in the fictional world, because a single piece of their hair had more energy than anything else in that fictional dimension.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That still seems to me as though it is a flavor of Dimensional Travel, though. Like it is Immersion under the current system but that would still also fall within the broad net of Dimensional Travel, as well.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I suppose so. But what about dreams? Wouldn't changing this be the same as saying, that if a character has the ability to go into a dream, then the dreams aren't actually dreams, but alternate dimensions, just as real as everything else?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

My first thought is "well that's just Dream Manipulation, even if the Dream Realm is a separate place- we do that for Freddy Krueger, after all". But if we were to consider it a form of Immersion (and thus changed by this)...

There's two immediate routes one can go with that.

Dreams aren't real (therefore falling under Immersion) -> The effects in the dreams aren't real (That one Supernatural episode)

Dreams aren't real (therefore falling under Immersion) -> The effects in dreams are real (Freddy Krueger)

Either one falls under Immersion (and would therefore fall under Dimensional Travel, were this to be accepted). It is a nuance of their particular version of the ability, whether we call it Immersion or Dimensional Travel.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Looks goods to me

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

My first thought is "well that's just Dream Manipulation, even if the Dream Realm is a separate place- we do that for Freddy Krueger, after all". But if we were to consider it a form of Immersion (and thus changed by this)...

There's two immediate routes one can go with that.

Dreams aren't real (therefore falling under Immersion) -> The effects in the dreams aren't real (That one Supernatural episode)

Dreams aren't real (therefore falling under Immersion) -> The effects in dreams are real (Freddy Krueger)

Either one falls under Immersion (and would therefore fall under Dimensional Travel, were this to be accepted). It is a nuance of their particular version of the ability, whether we call it Immersion or Dimensional Travel.

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[Agnaa]

I would prefer just calling this sort of thing Dimensional Travel.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Option 1 looks good to me. With the recent revisions, Immersion seems redundant to have as an ability

Would it help to add something akin to what Immersion was (albeit with the specification that it's not a proper R>F transcendence) as a possible use of Dimensional Travel on its page?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's sort of like a mix between dimensional travel and shapeshifting, but I can agree its sort of redundant.

 

[SamanPatou]

It makes sense on the surface, but on the other hand my gripe is that Dimensional Travel might implicity require the existence of the place you're traveling in, while Immersion often involves entering a place that shouldn't normally exist as a real place, like a paiting, a movie, a picture etc..., making it a sort of reality wearping-like power that could even affect time or else.

Still, we can expand the Dimensional Travel page to include this sort of ability too, putting in it some limits though.

 

[Antvasima]

It makes sense on the surface, but on the other hand my gripe is that Dimensional Travel might implicity require the existence of the place you're traveling in, while Immersion often involves entering a place that shouldn't normally exist as a real place, like a paiting, a movie, a picture etc..., making it a sort of reality wearping-like power that could even affect time or else.

I personally agree with this, and do not think that it seems like a good idea to delete such a distinctive and different ability.

I do not think that we should delete this ability just because the power itself doesn't make logical sense. My apologies.