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Ice Dust Durability

Kingofwolves999

Kingofwolves999

8,161
12,433
It was recently brought to my attention that Ice Dust is regarded with High 8-C durability, regardless of quantity, size or usage. I don't think that this is a correct assumption. In Yang's fight with Neo, she was shown to be able to easily break her Ice Dust with a stomp and punch, despite only being 8-C + in her base.

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I believe that, due to this, Ice Dust durability should scale to the actual size or quantity of dust used to perform the attacks. Since basically every ice dust attack other than Neon's is very large in comparison, I think this just scales to Neon's personal dust usage and any usage of dust that comes after.
 
 
All the examples you've provided don't prove that ice dust has the exact same durability despite size though. Ruby's ice dust bullets explode into large structures of ice, Weiss's ice moves are laughably higher than anyone else's usage, and Blake's examples don't even have anyone try to break out seriously, since Torchwick was being overwhelmed by all of Blake's dust, and was hit by a blade beam not even 5 seconds after his cane was frozen, and Illia didn't even bother to try and break the ice on her whip as it went away on it's own.

Neon's ice dust was easily broken by a 8-c character because it was used in the lowest quantity we've seen, not even fully covering one of Yang's limbs. More dust = stronger effect, so the less ice dust used the less durable it is. Seems pretty simple.
 
Also, in the Torchwick example, Blake broke her own ice sculpture with a blade beam, and she's only 8-c+ in that key. Which furthers my point that smaller amounts of ice dust are easier to break than larger amounts, as every other example of ice dust is a very gross amount of it, like what Weiss uses and how Ruby's bullets explode.

I think an example of a very small amount of ice dust being as durable as an incredibly large amount of ice dust is needed to say that the durability is the exact same regardless of quantity used.

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A bullet. A bullet has demonstrated High 8-C durability

I'll try to find a clip of it but Sienna has ice dust arrowheads that also have tier 8 dura
 
What ice dust the size of a bullet has demonstrated high 8c dura?

I know the clip you're talking about with Sienna Khan, and no one even knows that characters tier since he's a random fodder that didn't even go to huntsman academy, so saying he's 8c+ is very skeptical.

I don't see Blake being high 8c via dust on her profile. And where was it stated that she amped herself with gravity dust? She could do blade beams before Weiss gave her dust.
 
Ruby's and Blake's bullets

Are you sure you know what im talking about? Because Sienna is not a 'he' nor a random fodder.

Im currently talking with people to get it added
 
Their bullets explode on contact to spread ice dust. This post is addressing how durable the ice caused by their bullets can be. It's the same principle with Neon. Her nunchucks conduct ice dust and freeze what they hit.

So far, only Neon's ice dust is shown as small and breakable, as opposed to Ruby who shoots large formations of ice dust that spread quickly. That's why ice dust should scale to the quantity of dust used. More dust creates a larger effect, like Ruby's bullets filled with ice dust and Weiss's rapier, while less dust produces a lesser effect, like Neon's nunchucks when she taps someone. It's a pretty basic change I think.

Sienna froze a guard's arms and gun to his chest with ice dust. That guard is likely not 8c+, nor did we even see him attempt to break out of it, so her freezing him doesn't add to your argument that all dust NEEDS to be high 8c regardless of size or quantity.
 
Yea, to be frank, it seems most consistently unbreakable by 8-C+s and High 8-Cs (and because it is unbreakable/not destroyed by 8-C+s, it's very reasonable to take the high end here.)

I don't think a downgrade is necessary.
 
It's not a downgrade, it's just a clarification that less dust results in a lesser effect. Small amounts of ice dust can be shattered easily by 8cs, while more medium sized amounts need high8c bare minimum to break.

The only person really affected by this is Neon Katt, and she doesn't have high 8c on her profile anyway.
 
@King Neon's profile is very outdated, she doesnt even have her speed amp or other kinds of Dust listed
 
Ok, then she would really be the only one affected by this thread. Base Yang can easily break her ice due to how little dust she actually infuses into her nunchuck glow sticks, so less dust = less durability seems to make sense.
 
That would be closer to an outlier, then. A single low-ball feat, if anything, dictates an upgrade for Yang more than a downgrade for all Ice Dust users.
 
Again, its much more likely that Yang used her semblance to temporarily amp her strength than Neon's ice having variable durability, especially with the feat i just posted
 
Neon uses far more dust in that feat against the Paladin than she does in her fight against Yang, so that kinda just proves my point. More dust = stronger durability. Neon doesn't really get affected, but this clarification should be noted.

This isn't an outlier because this is the smallest amount of dust we've ever seen a character use in RWBY. It's not like I'm trying to downgrade the whole verse, it's just a clarification thread.
 
Except its not ever stated or shown that more dust = more durability

A square meter of steel is not less durable than 5 square meters of steel
 
Yang has very clear signs when she uses her semblance, why would she suddenly not have them for what appears o be incredibly casual for her? She doesn't have red eyes or fire anywhere, those are telltale signs she's using her Semblance, and she shows that when she actually activates it later in the fight. Why does she for this one moment alone not need those signs?
 
A block of steel is more durable than a sheet of steel. The more dense an object the more durable usually, and in the case of ice dust, it becomes far larger and thus denser depending on the amount of ice dust used.
 
She never needed them in the first place, her semblance has always been 'your strength gradually goes up the more hits you take', its even pointed out in the fight against Adam and then blatantly stated in the guidebook that unlike Adam, who needs to release all his absorbed damage as a single powerful attack, Yang is able to spread it out to make herself stronger for longer periods.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
A block of steel is more durable than a sheet of steel. The more dense an object the more durable usually, and in the case of ice dust, it becomes far larger and thus denser depending on the amount of ice dust used.
Click to expand...
Increasing a meterial's volume does not increase its density
 
When has she ever used her semblance without those signs though? They're a telltale sign of her usage of it. Is there another instance somewhere where she used her semblance without any signs whatsoever?

It just seems far more plausible that less dense ice dust can be broken easier than dense dust, instead of saying Yang can now activate her semblance with no sign whatsoever whenever she wants.
 
Density, in its most basic form, is mass divided by volume. More mass = more density. Larger quantities of ice dust result in a bigger density. I don't recall saying volume increased density, mainly because ice dust should have a fixed volume, so it's mass should be the only thing that changes.
 
After reading through and thinking through this again from an unbiased view, I'll stick with my original thoughts and disagree with this change.
 
Thats not...

Thats not how density works. To make an object more dense you'd need to reduce volume while keeping the mass the same. Simply adding more mass is not going to change the density.
 
That's how it works though? If the mass of an object were to increase, the density would increase as well. If the volume of the object were to decrease, it's density would increase, and vice versa both ways. In RWBY, you can have either a small amount of dust or a large amount. A small application of ice dust = a smaller mass, resulting in a lower density. A larger application of ice dust = a larger mass, resulting in a bigger density.

You don't increase density solely via volume.
 
Let's say ice dust has a volume of 10 m^3, and the mass is 50kg

P = m/V = 50/10 = 5 kg/m^3

Now say we only have 25 kg of ice dust

P = m/V = 25/10 = 2.5 kg/m^3

A change in mass changes density
 
Actually, you can increase density via volume- if you make a container smaller, but keep the mass the same, it's more dense. Alternatively, if you stuff more mass in the same container, it's more dense.

Think of it this way- you have a half-inflated balloon. Now, you could pump more air into it, making it tight and high in pressure. The density of the air inside would be higher, now, because you filled it up/added mass.

But if you, say, magically made the balloon smaller until it was tight and floaty, the density would also be higher, since you contained the same mass in a far smaller container.
 
^ basically. Both mass and volume changing effects density, it just matters which one is being changed. One both or neither can change
 
@King But its not just volume changing

Hell if it were just volume changing, Yang breaking Neon's ice would ne MORE impressive as her High 8-C ice would be compressed into a denser and thus more durable state
 
Also what about my post causes you to disagree @Moritzva? I don't think this is changing any profile at all, it's just a clarification thread about how dust works. So far, I think it follows the same science as real life, so I don't think there's a problem?
 
@Weekly we would need to calculate the volume of Neon's ice in order to say that though. We don't know how much volume Neon's ice has in comparison to its mass. All we know is that with less mass it can be broken by 8c characters, with more mass, it can hold high 8cs.
 
I never said it was adding more density though? I said that the volume needs to be known in order to say that her ice is the exact same with a big mass as it is with a small mass. So far all we have is that big mass = holds high 8c, Little mas = 8cs break it.

I already posted and have shown what the relationship between density mass and volume is. With an example problem as well.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
That's how it works though? If the mass of an object were to increase, the density would increase as well. If the volume of the object were to decrease, it's density would increase, and vice versa both ways. In RWBY, you can have either a small amount of dust or a large amount. A small application of ice dust = a smaller mass, resulting in a lower density. A larger application of ice dust = a larger mass, resulting in a bigger density.
Click to expand...


You did say that it was adding density. A certain material has a certain density regardless of the mass and volume, adding more mass and more volume does not change its density.

Your example problem showed two different densities but that does not apply here as the density is not changing.
 
Unless a material is stated to change in composition, density would remain constant as mass and volume change proportionate to one another.
 
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