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The reasoning will only saddens Thunder more and more by reflecting his past and mistakes. Hermes talked with him and he wanted to die more and more.
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I had a good idea
- Thread starter Enryu_The_Red_Tower
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The diamonds stopped attacking because they realized he was Pink.Nyukira said:
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How exactly did Hermes try and reason with him? Steven may not try the same thing. Besides, Steven befriended Lapis and managed to reason with her despite her being trapped as a mirror for thousands of years and being tortured for information she doesn't have. This is in spite of the fact that he was a Crystal Gem, a group that Lapis despises. He also did a lot of work redeeming Peridot, who was completely fine with the Earth getting destroyed, and Bismuth, who implied she was going to attempt genocide.Reinhardthrowhisspear said:
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She convices him to see his life with self-worth, which made Thunder like her. It made him want to die with her because she was such a good person. The more you make yourself friendly to him, the more he wants to die with you.
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Not sure if she has the reasoning skills and feats that Steven does when it comes to talking people down.Reinhardthrowhisspear said:
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Yeah, she doesn't have one. Now that I think about it, Steven fra. Only way to stop McQueen is to kill the depression out of him.
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Steven FRA then. He constantly KOs TMQ and reasons with him while unconscious until TMQ gives up.
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Steven fra
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Bump.
Jackythejack
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Uh...Steven fra
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Grace period begins.
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Switching to Steven FRA
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Actually, we need one more vote. The winner needs three more votes than the other verdicts.
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Nevermind. Ninja'd by Gargoyle.The Wright Way said:
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incon fra, being nice only makes him more suicidal
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Someone with no feats of talking people down can't compare with someone who does.DragonEmperor23 said:
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Not sure if she has the reasoning skills and feats that Steven does when it comes to talking people down.
Debunked @Dragon
Debunked @Dragon
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Again, being better at it would only make him more suicidal.
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The guy who literally brought up the argument agreed he wouldn'tReinhardthrowhisspear said:
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Not how it works. A bad therapist can easily make someone more suicidal but a good therapist won't.DragonEmperor23 said:
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Saying that Steven's better feats of talking people down helps him is ignoring Thunder's personality completely. Thunder wants to die with someone nice. If there is somebody that wants to help him not be suicidal then this would only encourage Thunder to die faster. He's afraid of dying alone so dying with someone so nice would be utterly ideal for him.
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Saying that the person who brought it up changed his mind doesn't mean anything. That's like saying If you thought that Cosmic Armor Superman could beat Goku then someone changed your mind so that means Goku could beat Superman.
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False equivalency.DragonEmperor23 said:
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No it isn't. You are literally saying because someone changed their mind, the original thing they said was wrong.
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Thunder only wanted to kill himself when talked down by a regular therapist. Steven can completely change the opinion of a genocidal maniac in less then a day. You need proof that level of persuasion wouldn't work on Thunder.
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But he actually brought up an argument alongside it:
"Not sure if she has the reasoning skills and feats that Steven does when it comes to talking people down."
He's not only sayin "it's wrong because he changed his mind"; you can't ignore half of the argument and only focus on the "he changed his mind" part.
"Not sure if she has the reasoning skills and feats that Steven does when it comes to talking people down."
He's not only sayin "it's wrong because he changed his mind"; you can't ignore half of the argument and only focus on the "he changed his mind" part.
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See, you're comparing apples to oranges. Thunder is not a genocidal maniac, talking down people who want to murder things =/= talking down someone who wants to die. Thunder wants to die with someone else. If someone wants to help him, this makes him more suicidal because he wants to die with someone nice.
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That doesn't change how persuasion worksDragonEmperor23 said:
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Don't just focus on that part, I said other stuff. It does change it. Being good at one thing =/= can apply it to every version of that thing.
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You're missing the point. Even if that was the case: Lapis also has depression. So much so that her only response to 5000 years of grief being forced on her at once was "I've felt worse". Steven befriended her in a single day, even after she stole the Earth's ocean and fused with Jasper into Malachite (who's literally a mutual abusive relationship given physical form) Steven has experienced helping people like Thunder and Thunder can't kill himself if he's knocked out. (Which would just let Steven keep talking to him due to telepathy.) You need proof that Thunder would reject that level of persuasion.DragonEmperor23 said:
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If one part of your argument doesn't hold up, and it's linked to the rest of your argument, the rest falls too.DragonEmperor23 said:
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Why are you acting like being good at persuasion helps here? Thunder's will to die is literally made worse the harder someone tries to help him. You said Steven would talk to him but now you're also saying he would knock him out. Decide what he would do first. Even then, there's nothing stopping him from just not listening and kill himself by biting off his own tongue.
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Because being good at persuasion means it cancels Thunders will to die.
No, Wright is saying if Thunder knocked himself out Steven could still talk
No, Wright is saying if Thunder knocked himself out Steven could still talk
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Why would Thunder knock himself out? He wants to die, not go to sleep. You have to speak to persuade. Biting off your tongue >>> a conversation in speed.
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He can do both. Being good at persuasion helps because Thunder has never rejected that level of persuasion. Hasn't it been stated that Thunder wouldn't do that? He could've done that at any point after he met Hermes and stopped the plot right there but he didn't.DragonEmperor23 said:
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If the intent is to not let him commit suicide, then even if Steven can't talk him down, couldn't he just trap him in a High 6-A bubble and leave him there? He could bite his tongue, but this is the guy who was looking all over the prision for a way to die, so that's unlikely.
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Like 99% sure he started drowning himself mid sentence but I'm going to double check.
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i cant find jojo manga cause its not there on *********, hecc.
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