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In his fight against Ainz, she didn't fight him head-on because she knows his tricks. I doubt she knows Hunter's tricks. She went for range to strip Ainz of his massive MP. Also she spammed Teleportation.
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Hunter vs Shalltear Bloodfallen
- Thread starter Kisaragi_Megumi
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Also Hunter doesn't have MP. When she lowered Ainz' MP, she went for cqc.
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Hunter has no energy reserve unless you're talking stamina. It's in their weapons and weapons themselves constantly keep producing elements without tiring because it's a weapon.
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Can Hunter cancel out Shalltear's resurrection in practice? She comes back to life because of her resurrection item stored in personal dimension or something, that should work independent of user too, not because it's her actual ability to reincarnate.
In addition to the above, she in-character loves to spam teleportation and accelerate time to buff her speed. Also, she is likely one-shots Hunter via Implosion spell.
Leaning towards inconclusive.
In addition to the above, she in-character loves to spam teleportation and accelerate time to buff her speed. Also, she is likely one-shots Hunter via Implosion spell.
Leaning towards inconclusive.
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I mean, Girros isn't resurrecting by themselves yet he nulled it.
Time Accelerator disables her ability to attack. She can only reverse time three times a day. And she needs that. A lot. Mind + Soul Destruction will be a pain. She said herself that she can't spam Mana spells for long.
Time Accelerator disables her ability to attack. She can only reverse time three times a day. And she needs that. A lot. Mind + Soul Destruction will be a pain. She said herself that she can't spam Mana spells for long.
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No, standard usage of Time Accel is to prepare a right position for an attack, or to get off the trajectory of the projectiles firing at her. Hunter still can be blitzed if she uses skill without unnecessary failures at close distance. Add to this teleportation, healing/Regenerationn negating curses, spammable explosions that burst you inward and so on.
She said herself that she can't spam Mana spells for long.
This statement seems to be accurate if one does not forget that Shalltear only has 1.5 times less energy reserves than Ainz.
She said herself that she can't spam Mana spells for long.
This statement seems to be accurate if one does not forget that Shalltear only has 1.5 times less energy reserves than Ainz.
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Hunter isn't getting blitzed with FTL+ reactions. Hunter's natural regen might be negated, but manual healing is a thing. Not to mention their attacks are negated upon being hit with Elderseal.
If she can't spam time manip, my vote is still for Hunter. Once power null gets in, she won't be winning easily. She loses her best hax (resurrection, exploding internal organs). At that point, she just won't be able to counter the advantages of Hunter.
If she can't spam time manip, my vote is still for Hunter. Once power null gets in, she won't be winning easily. She loses her best hax (resurrection, exploding internal organs). At that point, she just won't be able to counter the advantages of Hunter.
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Leaving the area would be a decisive loss, would it not? She self BFR'd. Also, how does one leave the area with time manip? As in just stopping time and moving?
And does she do that in character, is the more important thing.
And does she do that in character, is the more important thing.
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That's fine. Minor point, the others still stand. Hunter will have their best abilities whereas Shalltear will have very few if they get hit with Elderseal.Yobobojojo said:
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If she can't spam time manip, my vote is still for Hunter...
I'd say time manip isn't a huge game changer for Shalltear as you portray it, and you're correctly observed, nothing implies she can't accelerate time repeatedly.
Hmm, on another note, if she feels her life threatened, being a half-caster, she would switch to non-costly ranged attacks with holy element that on contact block healing like Purifying Javeli or some AOE magic. Given the range advantage, it's gonna be pain in the ass for Hunter to handle.
I'd say time manip isn't a huge game changer for Shalltear as you portray it, and you're correctly observed, nothing implies she can't accelerate time repeatedly.
Hmm, on another note, if she feels her life threatened, being a half-caster, she would switch to non-costly ranged attacks with holy element that on contact block healing like Purifying Javeli or some AOE magic. Given the range advantage, it's gonna be pain in the ass for Hunter to handle.
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Uh.Reinhardthrowhisspear said:
You know Magical Weapons exist in overlord too right, and she can see that like she does with normal beings?
She might not see Hunter as a threat herself but her weapons would definitely send off massive red flags. Plus, she has a HP version that lets her see the approximate health of Hunter.
"I'd say time manip isn't a huge game changer for Shalltear as you portray it, and you're correctly observed, nothing implies she can't accelerate time repeatedly."
It is a completely massive game changer though. The only reason why it was pretty much useless against Ainz was because he knew absolutely everything there is to know about her.
"Hmm, on another note, if she feels her life threatened, being a half-caster, she would switch to non-costly ranged attacks with holy element that on contact block healing like Purifying Javeli or some AOE magic. Given the range advantage, it's gonna be pain in the ass for Hunter to handle."
She'd likely do that anyways, actually. Assuming this is a battle she takes this seriously (As per the advice of Ainz), she won't just charge in and would do at least basic information scrying using her abilities first, maybe probe Hunter with her melee a few times but, with her battle with Ainz shows, she's more than willing to stay away and spam attacks that are the weakness of her opponent.
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Hunter's weapons aren't magical for the most part. They're made from beings with the powers of the weapon. Most of it doesn't seem to be magic at all, with maybe the exception of certain elder dragon stuff.
There's a lot going for either side. Once her powers are nulled, Hunter has a one-way fight, but she just heals. Hunter also does much higher damage to intelligent foes and can destroy souls. Various mantles provide different advantages, from making probability go in their favor to being so stealthy they are invisible in the face of enhanced senses from three feet away.
Meanwhile, homegirl's time manip makes it a lot more difficult for Hunter, since she has survivability. Assuming she said she can do this three times a day, that means Hunter has to fight three versions of her, granted, with powers nulled. Her other hax mentioned aren't too impressive- Hunter can negate explosions and resurrection, absolutely. Hunter's best hope is that Shalltear relies on their resurrection and finds it suddenly not working.
I'm leaning towards Hunter still, but not so much I can conclusively say they take this. I'll be voting Incon for now.
There's a lot going for either side. Once her powers are nulled, Hunter has a one-way fight, but she just heals. Hunter also does much higher damage to intelligent foes and can destroy souls. Various mantles provide different advantages, from making probability go in their favor to being so stealthy they are invisible in the face of enhanced senses from three feet away.
Meanwhile, homegirl's time manip makes it a lot more difficult for Hunter, since she has survivability. Assuming she said she can do this three times a day, that means Hunter has to fight three versions of her, granted, with powers nulled. Her other hax mentioned aren't too impressive- Hunter can negate explosions and resurrection, absolutely. Hunter's best hope is that Shalltear relies on their resurrection and finds it suddenly not working.
I'm leaning towards Hunter still, but not so much I can conclusively say they take this. I'll be voting Incon for now.
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"Hunter's weapons aren't magical for the most part. They're made from beings with the powers of the weapon. Most of it doesn't seem to be magic at all, with maybe the exception of certain elder dragon stuff."
They're beings? Then during Shalltear's use of using her Life Essence, she finds that the weapons are alive somehow which would be concerning as well as confusing. It'd honestly make Shalltear even more tense since these weapons are nothing like Entoma's Bug weapons.
"There's a lot going for either side. Once her powers are nulled, Hunter has a one-way fight, but she just heals. Hunter also does much higher damage to intelligent foes and can destroy souls. Various mantles provide different advantages, from making probability go in their favor to being so stealthy they are invisible in the face of enhanced senses from three feet away. "
Who heals? Hunter? Pretty sure Shalltear nulls healing with her hits. If not, ignore this comment
The higher damage to intelligent enemies and destroying souls are good, but a reminder that every hit heals Shalltear too.
There's spells in Yggdrassil that makes it nigh impossible to sense them even if they're breathing down your neck as well. If Shalltear notices that Hunter completely disappeared, she'd likely know how to counter due to it's very similar existence to the spell she knows. Also feats for probability plz ^-^
" Assuming she said she can do this three times a day, that means Hunter has to fight three versions of her, granted, with powers nulled. Her other hax mentioned aren't too impressive- Hunter can negate explosions and resurrection, absolutely. Hunter's best hope is that Shalltear relies on their resurrection and finds it suddenly not working. "
Eh, for the most part agreed, but Shalltear isn't one to let herself get killed. Y'know. Since she doesn't want to fail Ainz? She's much more likely to exhaust everything she's got before falling. At best, Hunter fatally wounds Shalltear and she reverses time and becomes much more careful.
They're beings? Then during Shalltear's use of using her Life Essence, she finds that the weapons are alive somehow which would be concerning as well as confusing. It'd honestly make Shalltear even more tense since these weapons are nothing like Entoma's Bug weapons.
"There's a lot going for either side. Once her powers are nulled, Hunter has a one-way fight, but she just heals. Hunter also does much higher damage to intelligent foes and can destroy souls. Various mantles provide different advantages, from making probability go in their favor to being so stealthy they are invisible in the face of enhanced senses from three feet away. "
Who heals? Hunter? Pretty sure Shalltear nulls healing with her hits. If not, ignore this comment
The higher damage to intelligent enemies and destroying souls are good, but a reminder that every hit heals Shalltear too.
There's spells in Yggdrassil that makes it nigh impossible to sense them even if they're breathing down your neck as well. If Shalltear notices that Hunter completely disappeared, she'd likely know how to counter due to it's very similar existence to the spell she knows. Also feats for probability plz ^-^
" Assuming she said she can do this three times a day, that means Hunter has to fight three versions of her, granted, with powers nulled. Her other hax mentioned aren't too impressive- Hunter can negate explosions and resurrection, absolutely. Hunter's best hope is that Shalltear relies on their resurrection and finds it suddenly not working. "
Eh, for the most part agreed, but Shalltear isn't one to let herself get killed. Y'know. Since she doesn't want to fail Ainz? She's much more likely to exhaust everything she's got before falling. At best, Hunter fatally wounds Shalltear and she reverses time and becomes much more careful.
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The weapons aren't alive. Monster Hunter functions based on taking bits of the creatures you kill and making stuff with them.
Shalltear heals.
Shalltear heals from damage to their soul?
Her experience with magic wouldn't mean experience with this. Just with people disappearing. But her countering magic doesn't mean much.
Probability comes from a few things, but it isn't overpowered. Generally it equates to finding needed parts faster. Reinhard can provide a few links, they made the CRT.
But dying once isn't failure since she (normally) can resurrect. It's just in this case, she can't.
Shalltear heals.
Shalltear heals from damage to their soul?
Her experience with magic wouldn't mean experience with this. Just with people disappearing. But her countering magic doesn't mean much.
Probability comes from a few things, but it isn't overpowered. Generally it equates to finding needed parts faster. Reinhard can provide a few links, they made the CRT.
But dying once isn't failure since she (normally) can resurrect. It's just in this case, she can't.
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"The weapons aren't alive. Monster Hunter functions based on taking bits of the creatures you kill and making stuff with them."
Ah. Okay. She'd recognize that slower but not slow enough for Hunter to kill her. Losing a bit of your soul as an Undead is a very big ringer, since your Soul is what's keeping you animate. Plus the New World has stuff like Talents, so she'd avoid getting directly hit by Hunter from then on due to what she thinks is a powerful Talent.
"Shalltear heals.
Shalltear heals from damage to their soul?"
I was talking about physical damage, I don't recall damage to the soul making you crippled or anything so while effective, isn't very damaging in the battle proper. Maybe her damaged soul would kill her 1 or 2 years down the line, but not in this battle.
"Her experience with magic wouldn't mean experience with this. Just with people disappearing. But her countering magic doesn't mean much."
That's literally what the spell is dude.
"Perfect Unknowable: A 9th tier spell used to make the user invisible to the naked eye. It can also erased one's traces and sounds including the pitch of the user's voice from being heard, making the magic caster very difficult to detect if they did not have very high-level thief-type job classes."
It literally makes you invisible to anyone except extremely specialized thieves. The Hunter's invisibility is literally just this except a little more potent, but she'd still think it's Perfect Unknowable and as such start using countermeasures, which would still be effective since it's practically the same ability.
"Probability comes from a few things, but it isn't overpowered. Generally it equates to finding needed parts faster. Reinhard can provide a few links, they made the CRT. "
Oh. Not battle applicable then?
"But dying once isn't failure since she (normally) can resurrect. It's just in this case, she can't. "
Still. 3 Rewinds before she even thinks about letting herself die.
Hell, against her battle with Ainz, she summoned her household just to heal up. If she truly relied on solely Resurrection then she would've saved her household.
Ah. Okay. She'd recognize that slower but not slow enough for Hunter to kill her. Losing a bit of your soul as an Undead is a very big ringer, since your Soul is what's keeping you animate. Plus the New World has stuff like Talents, so she'd avoid getting directly hit by Hunter from then on due to what she thinks is a powerful Talent.
"Shalltear heals.
Shalltear heals from damage to their soul?"
I was talking about physical damage, I don't recall damage to the soul making you crippled or anything so while effective, isn't very damaging in the battle proper. Maybe her damaged soul would kill her 1 or 2 years down the line, but not in this battle.
"Her experience with magic wouldn't mean experience with this. Just with people disappearing. But her countering magic doesn't mean much."
That's literally what the spell is dude.
"Perfect Unknowable: A 9th tier spell used to make the user invisible to the naked eye. It can also erased one's traces and sounds including the pitch of the user's voice from being heard, making the magic caster very difficult to detect if they did not have very high-level thief-type job classes."
It literally makes you invisible to anyone except extremely specialized thieves. The Hunter's invisibility is literally just this except a little more potent, but she'd still think it's Perfect Unknowable and as such start using countermeasures, which would still be effective since it's practically the same ability.
"Probability comes from a few things, but it isn't overpowered. Generally it equates to finding needed parts faster. Reinhard can provide a few links, they made the CRT. "
Oh. Not battle applicable then?
"But dying once isn't failure since she (normally) can resurrect. It's just in this case, she can't. "
Still. 3 Rewinds before she even thinks about letting herself die.
Hell, against her battle with Ainz, she summoned her household just to heal up. If she truly relied on solely Resurrection then she would've saved her household.
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Also, about "damage to the soul weakening you" That should be decided case-by-case via what happens in both verse it relates to, I presume some verses don't really have the target knowing that their soul is being destroyed, while some verses have soul destruction indeed making their physical bodies weaker.
@Bambu does her soul destruction destroy those who can't resist it instantly? Or is it some gradual destruction like her physical attacks.
@Bambu does her soul destruction destroy those who can't resist it instantly? Or is it some gradual destruction like her physical attacks.
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I think gradual is the right answer albeit quick. Akantor Cannonlance description burns the soul and Alatreon Greatsword destroy it but again, gradually. Also monster can move quickly while they're hit by it so Shalltear can't feel it.
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I think two or three swipes would be enough. I think it's gameplay mechanics that made the monsters survive the hits. Also there's mind Destruction.
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It is super effective on Vaal Hazak, Dragon who overcame Effluvium, the same thing that turned country sized Ecosystem's Monsters to violent psychopaths. Also Immunity is NLF.
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@Akre What I mean is, even if you heal physical form, your soul is still being smacked around.
Yes, she can see invisible target. Stealth =/= Invisibility. This is just a hugely good version of stealth that makes you nigh-undetectable.
Prob Manip just makes little things go in Hunter's favor. Not super combat applicable as a manual ability (it is passive).
@Op The soul destruction isn't like "bam instantly your soul is gone", but it does get shattered pretty quick. I think this would be countered by Time Manip, just reqinding time for your being should be enough, but if she's fighting without her best abilities due to Dragon Element, she's going to be having a hard time dealing with an opponent that can actually damage her.
@Reinhard Yes, it is probably game mechanics because it'd be a bit too OP to say "hey uh your dead because that guy just broke your soul kek". Same reason 5-A Hunter would take more than one hit to kill an 8-B monster.
Yes, she can see invisible target. Stealth =/= Invisibility. This is just a hugely good version of stealth that makes you nigh-undetectable.
Prob Manip just makes little things go in Hunter's favor. Not super combat applicable as a manual ability (it is passive).
@Op The soul destruction isn't like "bam instantly your soul is gone", but it does get shattered pretty quick. I think this would be countered by Time Manip, just reqinding time for your being should be enough, but if she's fighting without her best abilities due to Dragon Element, she's going to be having a hard time dealing with an opponent that can actually damage her.
@Reinhard Yes, it is probably game mechanics because it'd be a bit too OP to say "hey uh your dead because that guy just broke your soul kek". Same reason 5-A Hunter would take more than one hit to kill an 8-B monster.
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BUMP!! Current vote btw?
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