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@Azathoth Okay. Thank you for the reply. What statistics do you think are appropriate, and would you be willing to adjust the profiles? I am already extremely busy and would likely mess it up.
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How powerful are the Silmarils (LOTR)?
- Thread starter Hat_mchat
- Start date
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- Tags
- lord of the rings
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https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/how-powerful-were-the-silmarils-1868475/
Since this is a thread on Silmaril power levels I thought it would be appropriate to post this calc. It would put the Silmarils at Solar System level, not Star level, since a single fruit of many was equal to a sun.
Since this is a thread on Silmaril power levels I thought it would be appropriate to post this calc. It would put the Silmarils at Solar System level, not Star level, since a single fruit of many was equal to a sun.
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- Thread starter
- #86
This changes quite a lot as the calculation predicted that morgoth would be tanking the energy equivalent of a solar system every second he ran across helcaraxe with ungoliant. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this should raise Morgoth's physical form tier to 4-B and this would scale a lot of other characters. Could someone confirm if this is a correct interpretation?
Edit: or maybe just his durability? Anyway, I'd like to know Azathoth's opinion on scaling balrogs to at least 4-C because of the chasing off ungoliant feat.
Edit: or maybe just his durability? Anyway, I'd like to know Azathoth's opinion on scaling balrogs to at least 4-C because of the chasing off ungoliant feat.
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@Antvasima Thanks. Will do.
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Getting the calc evaluated will be good.
The Balrog scaling is still a bit confusing. Granted, scaling characters like Sauron to them wouldn't cause any sort of problems, but Gandalf the Grey defeated Durin's Bane, which leads to some issues.
The Balrog scaling is still a bit confusing. Granted, scaling characters like Sauron to them wouldn't cause any sort of problems, but Gandalf the Grey defeated Durin's Bane, which leads to some issues.
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So, should the speed statistics for the Valar and the Maiar be adjusted to "Supersonic+ to High Hypersonic in physical form. Infinite Speed in spirit form (The Ainur who entered Eä were said to live at any speed of thought or motion they chose)"?
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It's possible that Durin's Bane was just a far weaker Balrog than normal. It did flee from the War of Wrath, after all, and we've seen that most evil Ainur tend to grow weaker over time (Morgoth being the most dramatic case, Sauron to a slightly lesser degree). But the Balrogs collectively defeating Ungoliant could be a huge outlier or PIS; otherwise it creates massive scaling issues with the Witch-King from Gandalf as Hat mchat mentioned above. 4-C Ringwraith? That doesn't make any sense.
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I disagree on PIS. The Balrogs are not 4C because of Ungoliant (math on my blog), only Sauron, Eonwe and the Valar are. The Valar are much closer to the Maiar then this wiki says. In the Valaqeunta it was stated that many of the Maiar where almost as powerful as the Valar. In addition the Ringwraith problem can be fixed like this:
1. The Balrog radiated much of his energy during his time in hibernation so he should be about Multi-Continent to Moo level (it can't be too big of a gap since the most extreme example of this, Morgoth, was still Large planet to Dwarf star level by virtue of ruling them).
2. Their were nine Ringwraiths so the Gandalf feat is divided among them. The low end for moon level is 1.24x10^29. Divide that by nine to get 1.37*10^28 or Multi-Continent level. The low end for Multi-Continent level is 1.855604*10^25. Divided by nine we get 2.0617822*10^24 or Large Country level.
As for infinite speed I think that that quote means reaction time, (or else we have Invincible Maiar) and the other quote states that they have precognition, though that's my interpretation.
1. The Balrog radiated much of his energy during his time in hibernation so he should be about Multi-Continent to Moo level (it can't be too big of a gap since the most extreme example of this, Morgoth, was still Large planet to Dwarf star level by virtue of ruling them).
2. Their were nine Ringwraiths so the Gandalf feat is divided among them. The low end for moon level is 1.24x10^29. Divide that by nine to get 1.37*10^28 or Multi-Continent level. The low end for Multi-Continent level is 1.855604*10^25. Divided by nine we get 2.0617822*10^24 or Large Country level.
As for infinite speed I think that that quote means reaction time, (or else we have Invincible Maiar) and the other quote states that they have precognition, though that's my interpretation.
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The blog makes absolutely no sense.
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Why?
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In any case, we still need to do something about all the contradictory speed values. Simply writing "Supersonic+ to High Hypersonic in physical form. Possibly Infinite Speed in spirit form (The Ainur who entered Eä were said to live at any speed of thought or motion that they chose)" seems like the easiest solution.
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- Thread starter
- #99
I don't really see the difference between speed and reaction time at such an unfathomable scale anyway, if you can react at infinite speed surely you can move at that speed. Also the text says how they can live at any speed of "motion" as in literally moving. If anything the any speed of thought is more similar to reaction time.
Like i said, the speed only applies to spirit form as stated in the source. If an ainu becomes too attached to it's physical form, it finds it painful to shed it. Also the ainur got weaker over time.
Like i said, the speed only applies to spirit form as stated in the source. If an ainu becomes too attached to it's physical form, it finds it painful to shed it. Also the ainur got weaker over time.
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What about the Maiar's pre-creation form? They should have them like the Valar. And why aren't the Maiar scaled to the Valar. The Silmarillion implies it should be so.
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On kindle, loc 402 "then the voices of the Anuir, like unto harps and lutes, and pipes and trumpets, and violas and organs, began to fashion the theam of illuvatar to a great music"
Loc 627 "With the valar came other spirits, of the same order as the Valar, but of less degree"
Loc 627 "With the valar came other spirits, of the same order as the Valar, but of less degree"
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Ainundale Page 11, Del Rey 2nd Edition (2001): "And the Valar drew unto them many companions, some less, some well nigh as great as themselves."
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- Thread starter
- #105
This comment is just regarding the ainulindale: I don't think the ainulindale is at all really a feat as all it entitled was singing a vision into being. That vision wasn't an actual physical universe, just a projection, only by the will of Iluvatar is the universe actually created when he spoke "Ea", but it is true that the valar created all the physical matter in the universe, but only once they had their power restricted and descended into Ea.
By the way this is almost completely unrelated.
By the way this is almost completely unrelated.
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So… Possibly infinite speed for all the Aniur?
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Then we will deal with power level problem?
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Easy. Copy and paste "possibly infinite speed in their spirit forms (The Ainur who entered Eä were said to live at any speed of thought or motion they chose)", on:
-Saruma
-Gandalf
-Osse
-Sauro
-Balrogs
-Gothmog
-Melkor/Morgoth Bauglir
-Arie
-Tilio
-Tulkas
-Ulmo
And Varda
-Saruma
-Gandalf
-Osse
-Sauro
-Balrogs
-Gothmog
-Melkor/Morgoth Bauglir
-Arie
-Tilio
-Tulkas
-Ulmo
And Varda
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Stop being unreasonable.
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He does have a point about the copy-paste process though. Would you be willing to handle it Matthew?
The following text should be inserted instead of the current sentence for the infinite rating:
"Possibly Infinite in spirit form (The Ainur who entered Eä were said to live at any speed of thought or motion that they chose)."
The sentences for the Supersonic+ to High Hypersonic ratings can be kept as they currently are.
The following text should be inserted instead of the current sentence for the infinite rating:
"Possibly Infinite in spirit form (The Ainur who entered Eä were said to live at any speed of thought or motion that they chose)."
The sentences for the Supersonic+ to High Hypersonic ratings can be kept as they currently are.
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I can try handling it, yes.
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Can anyone show me the original quote about the Ainur?
I can't find it in the Silmarillion
http://ae-lib.org.ua/texts-c/tolkien__the_silmarillion__en.htm
I can't find it in the Silmarillion
http://ae-lib.org.ua/texts-c/tolkien__the_silmarillion__en.htm
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