How Much Context Can I Borrow From IRL Sources?

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Touhou frequently borrows various ideas from real-life beliefs, such as gods possessing infinitely divisible spirits. This goes well beyond merely referencing these concepts, as there is an entire official column in the official Touhou magazine describing religious and mythological beliefs as part of the setting and as "source material". In the latest chapter of one of the manga, a character mentions the process of sealing off the kimon, without much in-universe context elaborating on what that is; However, in real life this was tied to the cardinal direction oni used to steal one's fortune and health. A smaller example is how kappa can steal a person's shirikodama, which contains their soul, but only the former statement is confirmed in-universe and not the latter.

There are, of course, numerous other examples that I can provide if necessary.

My question is, would it be acceptable to draw from the IRL beliefs inspiring these statements, and if so, to what extent? Could I give kappa soul manipulation for the shirikodama thing, or would that be extrapolating too much? Also, to be clear, I'm not asking if I can just copy/paste religious beliefs into the wiki and call it a day; I'm just wondering if those beliefs can be used to contextualize statements that aren't given much context in canon.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Maybe ask a mod to check out your CRT drafts if you wanna be safe. The kimon and shirikodama examples should be fine, but do they mean something else in other japanese beliefs?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Maybe ask a mod to check out your CRT drafts if you wanna be safe. The kimon and shirikodama examples should be fine, but do they mean something else in other japanese beliefs?

Ah, for the kimon example, it's more like a character mentions another character sealing it up to try and prevent her entry. We don't get more context beyond this, but the translator's note (to be clear, this is a fan translation so they have no authority over canon) explains what she meant when she said that, based on the real life beliefs related to that concept (again, such beliefs are considered "source material" for the series). So, would the translator's note be usable, since it just explains the cultural context behind a vague statement?

 

[Hypertornado099]

Ah, for the kimon example, it's more like a character mentions another character sealing it up to try and prevent her entry. We don't get more context beyond this, but the translator's note (to be clear, this is a fan translation so they have no authority over canon) explains what she meant when she said that, based on the real life beliefs related to that concept (again, such beliefs are considered "source material" for the series). So, would the translator's note be usable, since it just explains the cultural context behind a vague statement?

Don't use the translator's note as a scan, use another source which explains what kimon means

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Don't use the translator's note as a scan, use another source which explains what kimon means

Yeah, that's fine. But just to be clear, I would be able to include an outside source like that on the profiles, right?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I don't know exactly the limit, but I think it never works to mix real-life religion/mythology with works that use it, even when there's a lot of direct stuff.

The most recent case I remember was Jujutsu Kaisen with Buddhism, initially something accepted but later it became controversial and removed in a staff thread.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I thought that was based on a misrepresentation of the concepts at play and how JJK's depiction of them ran contrary to the appropriate real-world beliefs.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I thought that was based on a misrepresentation of the concepts at play and how JJK's depiction of them ran contrary to the appropriate real-world beliefs.

I don't remember, it was big and it was a long time ago.

But it seems to me that trying to link the two things is always controversial.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I don't remember, it was big and it was a long time ago.

But it seems to me that trying to link the two things is always controversial.

Understandable, but in this case there are statements from official sources and WoG saying that the two can, in fact, be linked, and that religion and mythology are basically the source material for the series. WoG has even said that he considers Touhou a derivative work based on those inspirations, just as there are fanmade derivative works based on Touhou.

Would that make it any more acceptable?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Understandable, but in this case there are statements from official sources and WoG saying that the two can, in fact, be linked, and that religion and mythology are basically the source material for the series. WoG has even said that he considers Touhou a derivative work based on those inspirations, just as there are fanmade derivative works based on Touhou.

Would that make it any more acceptable?

I really do not know. Maybe it's better to ask someone who has already dealt with this type of topic/crt.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I really do not know. Maybe it's better to ask someone who has already dealt with this type of topic/crt.

Agreed since the rules are kinda muddled, mythological profiles were deleted but parodies of mythological figures and IRL religion are still fair game for indexing (even those that take massively from the "taboo" IRL source material). Also the public domain Vs respecting boundaries debate when it comes to such potentially sensitive subjects.

For reference I suggest trying to find the CRT that allowed JTTW to be re-added back onto Wiki for a more clearer reference of the process of adding a verse that borrows from IRL sources while being tactful (as possible) about it.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Agreed since the rules are kinda muddled, mythological profiles were deleted but parodies of mythological figures and IRL religion are still fair game for indexing (even those that take massively from the "taboo" IRL source material). Also the public domain Vs respecting boundaries debate when it comes to such potentially sensitive subjects.

For reference I suggest trying to find the CRT that allowed JTTW to be re-added back onto Wiki for a more clearer reference of the process of adding a verse that borrows from IRL sources while being tactful (as possible) about it.

Good idea, although I'd still like further input rather than just going off of what was done for JTTW. Seems like this would be a case-by-case basis kind of thing.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Bump

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Bump

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I think you can only get the context from the works itself, not irl sources. Me and @ActuallySpaceMan42 only takes the scan from the JJTW itself. Not from other sutras or buddhist and daoist works.

JJTW abilities doesn't really take from outside source, everything is already explained via poem in the works or straight up explanation in it.