How Is Combat/Reaction Speed Practically Differentiated?

[Agnaa]

I've seen the sentiment echoed in a few places (by @Wokistan off-site, by @KingTempest in this thread) that the difference between reaction speed and combat speed is that combat speed involves physical movements (such as dodging).

However, our Speed page differentiates between them as such:

Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed.

For example, let's say that character A shoots at character B with a gun and character B dodges. That is reaction speed. Keep in mind, sometimes a person aim dodges and it is not as good of a feat.

Saying that combat speed is several reactions in sequence, while reaction speed is any amount of reactions below that.

So, what's the deal with these different definitions? Should the rule be rewritten, or should people start using the rule as written?

Personally, I'd lean to implementing the rule as written, since that seems to differentiate the two speeds a bit more than "Reaction speed is combat speed that you can't do anything with".

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah this one was always weird, but I once heard that reactions is equivalent to how much you can move your attacks around during that timeframe, not that we should use that timeframe outright for reactions separately and that the speed derived from moving within that timeframe would be combat speed or something. But IDK, I lost that comment years ago. I'll tag a bunch of CGMs to see what they think.

But overall I myself have no horse in this game.

@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Armorchompy @Mr._Bambu @Jasonsith @DemonGodMitchAubin @DMUA @Amelia_Lonelyheart @Therefir @M3X Opinions?

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

What about cases where characters can see things happen but are too slow to move in response to it, or cases where characters cannot see things happen but can naturally respond to it due to their powers?

 

[KLOL506]

What about cases where characters can see things happen but are too slow to move in response to it,

I think that's Perception speed?

or cases where characters cannot see things happen but can naturally respond to it due to their powers?

Prolly the speed falls down to Instinctive Reaction.

 

[Agnaa]

@Spino In wondering about a case like that in a profile of mine, I noticed some bits of supporting evidence and counter-evidence for that sort of thing being labeled as "Reactions".

For the supporting evidence, the Reactions page lists a big table of timeframes, labeled as reaction timeframes.

For the counterevidence, these are also labeled as perception speeds (although this category isn't mentioned on the main Speed page). More damningly, the first two listed rules on that page seem to go against this idea:

1. Reaction speed has both a distance and a timeframe component, so all calculations that are completed for reaction speed cannot simply be a timeframe by itself. Do not randomly assume a 1 meter distance for each timeframe and use that speed for the reaction speed.
2. If only a timeframe is known (for example, characters who do not need to move to attack or defend), then it is still possible to list that timeframe in parenthesis in the speed section of the character profile. It may also be listed in the skills section of the profile or as a feat.

A distance component is needed for reaction speed, and if only a timeframe is known, that timeframe can be listed on the profile, but is not given a rating.

 

[KLOL506]

@Spino In wondering about a case like that in a profile of mine, I noticed some bits of supporting evidence and counter-evidence for that sort of thing being labeled as "Reactions".

For the supporting evidence, the Reactions page lists a big table of timeframes, labeled as reaction timeframes.

For the counterevidence, these are also labeled as perception speeds (although this category isn't mentioned on the main Speed page). More damningly, the first two listed rules on that page seem to go against this idea:

A distance component is needed for reaction speed, and if only a timeframe is known, that timeframe can be listed on the profile, but is not given a rating.

Yeah, that's similar to what @Damage3245 said in a thread once.

Though, what is the point of the timeframe if only the combat speed portion is used? I know the timeframe is used if there is no way to calculate the distance moved within said timeframe, but what if the distance moved is calculable? What then?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Reaction Speed is basically defensive combat speed; dodging and evading attacks where as combat speed is for both offensive and defensive reactions; not just dodging but how fast you punch, kick, swing swords, throw objects, ect.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Reaction speed allows you to aim and pull the trigger of a gun or something in time to defend against a character with that combat speed. However, not bigger movements.
Perception speed is just timeframes. The only action you can do in that timeframe is think, not move, so at best you could maybe bring up a thought based defense.
Combat speed is reactions + movement speed + attack speed. You can perceive and react to a character coming at you at that speed, but also move that fast and attack that fast.

That's how I see it.

 

[Antoniofer]

Reaction speed, I believe, is the time it takes the brain to sent the appropiated neural signal to perform certain action; if someone sees an incoming projectile, the brain interprete the image took by the eyes and then it send the signal to the appropiated limb to take such action. The time it takes to make all this is what, I believe, is reaction speed.

Now, I think combat speed is the speed at which that one limb that receive the signal moves.

 

[Mr._Undetected]

Afaik, reaction speed is the speed at which you react to an attack, and dodge it

While Combat, how quickly the body moves to attack, either by hand or by examining, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Combat speed, Reaction Speed, and Perception are all three different things.

Perception is the mental reaction/reaction time; has nothing to do with movement.

Reaction speed is the ability to physically react to an incoming attack as well as mentally.

Combat speed is the ability to not only react to incoming attacks, but also the ability to counter attack against the same reactions.

 

[Agnaa]

If perception speed is an accepted distinct thing, shouldn't it be mentioned on the Speed page? Maybe the Reactions page should go through some changes if its timeframes are actually used for perception speed?

 

[KLOL506]

If perception speed is an accepted distinct thing, shouldn't it be mentioned on the Speed page? Maybe the Reactions page should go through some changes if its timeframes are actually used for perception speed?

Definitely should yeah.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

@Spino In wondering about a case like that in a profile of mine, I noticed some bits of supporting evidence and counter-evidence for that sort of thing being labeled as "Reactions".

For the supporting evidence, the Reactions page lists a big table of timeframes, labeled as reaction timeframes.

For the counterevidence, these are also labeled as perception speeds (although this category isn't mentioned on the main Speed page). More damningly, the first two listed rules on that page seem to go against this idea:

A distance component is needed for reaction speed, and if only a timeframe is known, that timeframe can be listed on the profile, but is not given a rating.

Perhaps the reactions page should be called "Perception" or something like that to prevent confusion? Although that might be too big to implement.

 

[Agnaa]

Maybe the table could just be moved to a separate Perceptions page?

 

[Mr._Undetected]

I don't understand a bit, but do you guys mean to convert reaction speed to Perception speed?

 

[Agnaa]

I don't understand a bit, but do you guys mean to convert reaction speed to Perception speed?

No. I mean that some people here draw a distinction between Perception Speed and Reaction Speed, yet "Perception Speed" is not a category listed on the Speed page, and the Reactions page includes information for both Perception Speed and Reaction Speed.

 

[Mr._Undetected]

I've never read a page that describes Perception speed, where is it?

 

[Damage3245]

Combat speed, Reaction Speed, and Perception are all three different things.

Perception is the mental reaction/reaction time; has nothing to do with movement.

Reaction speed is the ability to physically react to an incoming attack as well as mentally.

Combat speed is the ability to not only react to incoming attacks, but also the ability to counter attack against the same reactions.

This makes the most sense to me.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Why don't we have a section for Peeception Speed? That's weird.

 

[Agnaa]

I've never read a page that describes Perception speed, where is it?

Reactions has a table detailing tiers of perception speed.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Agnaa]

If perception speed is an accepted distinct thing, shouldn't it be mentioned on the Speed page? Maybe the Reactions page should go through some changes if its timeframes are actually used for perception speed?

Bump.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Reaction speed is just basic "flight, fight, freeze" response to danger. Reflexive actions taken by you spinal cord to protect you in response to some stimulus. Mostly basic in nature.. like jumping or twisting away from danger, covering your weakspots, curling yourself over, automatic attacks to ward off assailants, simple evasion etc. Not much or any thinking at all required.

Combat Reaction would be well thought out action, usually more complex than simple reflex actions. Like execution of some tactic or maneuvre.. multiple parries or attacks in quick succession in response to danger.

Perception speed is just the speed of your senses. Natural, supernatural, enhanced, extrasensory etc. Basic speed of gathering data.

Thinking speed is how fast your brain can interpret and act on percieved information. I woould not consider this same as Perception speed or involved in it in any way.

So basically process goes like this...

Perception Speed > Either Reflexive Actions or Thinking > Execution of Combat maneuvers.