How do Elder Gods compare to Outer Gods?

[Edenstar]

I consider myself more familiar with the Cthulhu Mythos than most, yet this is an apparent inconsistency that I cannot quite wrap my head around. Therefore I now turn to this community and its fellow knowledgeable members for answers.

In Hypnos, the titular character ― an Elder God ― is driven insane from a mere glimpse of the Outer Gods, and when passing the First Gate a second time he was instantly destroyed when the things beyond noticed him. However, Nodens ― also an Elder God ― appears to be in constant struggle against Nyarlathotep, an Outer God who resides beyond the Ultimate Gate, and thus should be infinitely more powerful than whatever destroyed Hypnos.

Why is it that two Elder Gods react so differently when faced with the power of the Outer Gods? Is there that much of a difference in power between individual Elder Gods, meaning that Nodens could annihilate Hypnos just as easily as the things beyond the First Gate did? Was Hypnos immensely weakened by the time of the story in which he was destroyed (and in that case, do we know how or why)? Or has Nodens only ever fought mere avatars of Nyarlathotep, much weaker than the Outer God's true self?

How would the average Elder God compare to the average Outer God?


Information from the Expanded Mythos is acceptable, as this is only for personal curiosity, and it might even be preferable as I fear that the Lovecraft canon may not hold a definitive answer.

 

[Planck69]

Is Hypnos ever even described as an Elder God in canon? Not only is he blatantly described as the setting's interpretation of his mythological counterpart but even the human companion that he takes on repeatedly refers to him as a god from his own limited human prespective. And we already know how the weak entities humans deem worthy of the title of gods are explictly inferior to the Archetypes, which is definitely more in line with what we see in Hypnos. Personally, I think that Hypnos is more likely to be a Great One (one of the gods of earth) than an Elder God especially since he's never really decribed to be one IIRC.

Since I've gone over the Hypnos stuff, this should be somewhat straight-forward. Nodens is only ever shown to fight against the Black Pharaoh and halt him in his tracks for sport. He's also exlicitly described to not fear the machinations of the Ulimate Gods so at the very least, he should be High 1-A or something. But going by canon, we can only tell that Nodens>= Nyar's more potent avatars. I don't really know about extended canon.

Hope this helps somewhat.

 

[Deerofdreams]

yeah so im pretty sure most elder gods get bodied by very low tier outer gods

 

[Edenstar]

Is Hypnos ever even described as an Elder God in canon? Not only is he blatantly described as the setting's interpretation of his mythological counterpart but even the human companion that he takes on repeatedly refers to him as a god from his own limited human prespective. And we already know how the weak entities humans deem worthy of the title of gods are explictly inferior to the Archetypes, which is definitely more in line with what we see in Hypnos. Personally, I think that Hypnos is more likely to be a Great One (one of the gods of earth) than an Elder God especially since he's never really decribed to be one IIRC.
Since I've gone over the Hypnos stuff, this should be somewhat straight-forward. Nodens is only ever shown to fight against the Black Pharaoh and halt him in his tracks for sport. He's also exlicitly described to not fear the machinations of the Ulimate Gods so at the very least, he should be High 1-A or something. But going by canon, we can only tell that Nodens>= Nyar's more potent avatars. I don't really know about extended canon.

Hope this helps somewhat.

It has been widely speculated that Hypnos ought to be considered one of the Elder Gods (and he is more or less confirmed as such in the Expanded Mythos via the Malleus Monstrorum RPG supplement), as many other figures from human mythologies already are (e.g. Nodens and Bast). However, this does raise certain inconsistencies in regards to his power level when compared to the others of his supposed kind, most prominently Nodens who frequently defeats Nyarlathotep's strongest avatars (I also seem to recall an Expanded Mythos source where it is said that Nyarlathotep, for all his evil, has never dared harm a cat because he fears retribution from Bast, though I can not remember where that quote is from).

As for Hypnos potentially being a Great One, I suppose it is possible, although the Great Ones are generally simple-minded and unintelligent whereas Hypnos is described as possessing great wisdom. Also, the Great Ones are clearly shown to be under the protection of the Outer Gods, whereas it was implied that an Outer God destroyed Hypnos merely for looking at it.

Either way, hank you for your reply.

 

[Planck69]

The Great Ones are specifically under the protection of Nyarlathotep not any other Outer God so Hypnos being destroyed by one wouldn't imply he's something else entirely. And them being simple-minded could prove that Hypnos is different from the norm but that could just be an additional quirk of his since it's implied that no god or daemon had ever attempted to do what Hypnos had planned anyway.

I'm mostly going off of the canon Mythos for reference so forgive my lack of knowledge on the EU. Then again, I once heard that the Buddha is an Outer God there and there's the oh so infamous Azathoth<Outer Gods<Yog-Sothoth<Azathoth so I'm not sure it's the best source of scaling.