Housepets! Upgrades + 1-C to 1-B proposal

[Robot972]

The profile for The Great Kitsune is a bit outdated as it's been a few years since the profile was last majorly edited. While I am working on some profiles and calcs for the verse overall, I wanted to get Kitsune's Celestial changes out of the way since they don't rely on those calcs being completed.

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Most of the work done to his abilities is just expanding upon what's already there, such as greatly expanding upon how magic(k) works in this verse, updating how Celestials perceive time, and greatly expanding upon his shapeshifting and power nullification. There's also added information about how he can manipulate the different aspects of reality (as most of his abilities didn't have actual explanations), how Avatars and Temples work within their chosen game, resistances he should possess, and more. The most notable new abilities would be:

• Madness Inducement
• Pocket Reality Manipulation
• Physics Manipulation
• Power Modification
• Resistances!

The biggest proposal however is bumping the Celestials from Low 1-C to 1-B, as we hear from this commentary from two out-of-commission Celestials that the multiverse possesses 11 temporal dimensions. At first the "out-of-commission" point would imply Craig and Draig shouldn't be taken seriously given they're supposed to have lost their Celestial memories, but we've consistently seen that they still maintain quite a bit of knowledge about their old forms.

Admittedly however, this is the only instance we hear of the multiverse being this cosmically massive in scale, with the next highest statement being that Tarot, an Avatar to one of the Celestials, can think fourth-dimensionally.


Agree (Abilities): Darkmon, Thelastmlg, Medeus, Deonment, Enter_Bluey,
Agree (Cosmology; Maybe Abilities?): Qwasedf, Antvasima
Agree (Full): TyranoDoom, Napoleondevious, Elizhaa
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[Livinmeme]

Very sad that of all old webcomics that was revived, this is the first...

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I don't know much about the verse in question but everything seems to be in order, maybe try reaching out to some staff so this can go through?

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Looks fine at a glance

 

[Napoleondevious]

Agree with 1-B multiverse, agree with their rating if they scale to it

 

[Thelastmlg]

Not sure about the 1-B part since it says "time in eleven dimensions", is there any context of where they are, cuz while it sounds like "11 temporal dimensions", it also sounds like seeing time while in the eleventh dimension

like, where they are and what are they doing

The rest seems fine

 

[Robot972]

Not sure about the 1-B part since it says "time in eleven dimensions", is there any context of where they are, cuz while it sounds like "11 temporal dimensions", it also sounds like seeing time while in the eleventh dimension

like, where they are and what are they doing

Apologies. Should have put a bit more of an explanation in the OP.

The characters are trying to find their way inside the ruins of the temple that belonged to one of the out-of-commission celestials prior, as there’s a source of ultimate power that a Hellspawn is trying to gain access to in order to take over the universe and siege war against Heaven.

The temples possess an internal pocket space which contains this power source. Though to transport there, the group ends up getting sucked through the Void of Nothingness, the all-seeing madness space seen in the comic linked above. It shows up for one strip, Tarot mentions she’s experienced it before, implying it’s more prevalent than we see, and that’s all that’s mentioned of it.

With the exception of the 4D thinking statement also linked above, it is genuinely out of the blue in terms of cosmology as the other universes and dimensions we’re familiar with are more parallel universes than anything that encases the primary, including universes that have more wonky spacetime. Heaven gets the closest since it’s infinite realms, but even it’s still treated more as a parallel set of worlds

So it’s possible the Void of Nothingness is unique in this tier of cosmology, but either way the Celestials still transcend it on a fundamental level as it remains part of the multiverse, which they perceive as fictional

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Why is the Kitsune's true form first?

 

[Da3ggman]

Ew, furry

 

[Robot972]

Why is the Kitsune's true form first?

Idk the thought process was because the “turned mortal” form was basically a separate being in terms of abilities and came second. But it can be put either way

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Just not usual.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So for the cosmology, time in eleven dimensions isn't the same as eleven temporal dimensions. It just means time on the 11D scale from what I'm seeing. However, if thr transcendence is the same it would still be an upgrade to 11th or 12th Dimensional.

For the profile I'll have to weigh in later but visually I think it looks good.

 

[Robot972]

So for the cosmology, time in eleven dimensions isn't the same as eleven temporal dimensions. It just means time on the 11D scale from what I'm seeing.

My b

For the profile I'll have to weigh in later but visually I think it looks good.

The stats for mortal Kitsune and the pets aren't accepted yet because I haven't finished the calcs 100% yet, so the Kits tier will be added at a separate time (which I finally remembered to set separately from Kitsune's profile), though I suppose if the rest of that looks fine, it'll make that addition easier later on

 

[Deonment]

Going through the profile

https://https//www.housepetscomic.com/comic/2020/12/25/tidings-of-comfort-and-joy/

This link is ****** because of the bolded part (in specific this is the paradox scan in aca type 4)

Answers questions before they're answered.

This reads more like mind reading than precog, so just add that also

Fourth Wall Awareness

I know he has it (it is kinda obvious), but do give a justification for it

Can selectively stop time for different individuals)

Should also include this in the second half of the justification, to clarify it better

Dimensional Travel, BFR, Time Travel (Standard celestial policy is to render any interaction mortals have with Celestials a dream, though it's not actually a requirement. This protocol automatically transports an individual to their chosen resting place regardless of what dimension or point in time they're in; Can create shortcuts to the void. Transports Fox to Heaven's waiting room. Can send people through time without the Wake Up protocol), Resurrection (This same protocol is used for resurrecting the recently deceased)

Would also be some form of dream manip, also this would be better evidence of them not having to do the dream/wake up bit

Power Bestowal (are capable of granting mortals power akin to their own, but Kitsune's gaming group limit their blessings to make the game more fun.

Are should be capitilized, and also link is ******, mostly due to the /Celestials at the end, use this linkinstead

Transmutation (Can overtake their Avatar

This i would just have as part of possession

or misc objects, transforming said entity into themself])

This is just Life manip, also remove the square bracket

Could remove the veil of Tarot's anti-Celestial lantern)

Should gain resistance to perception manip by being able to see the other while they are near it

Soul Manipulation (Could rewrite Joel's soul to allow him to pass into Dog Heaven. Large quantities of stockpiled mana is described as capable of pulverizing souls)

More direct feat of soul manip and NPI here, while also showing that the mind is (within) the soul, so it should also be mind manip of some kind, and you could just shift it over to the mind manip coloumn and argue both are one and the same in verse (which wouldn't be that hard iirc)

Madness Manipulation (Type 2; Can create objects that induce madness when touched)

This feels less like proper madness manip and more just something that happens as a consequence of the statue being loadbearing (despite not holding anything up) and thus touching and moving it would likely be a bit mindscrewy

Possibly Corrosion Inducement (Was seemingly dissolving the flesh of Eudoant's tail)

This seems less dissolving and more burning

Temperature Manipulation (Is vastly superior to Pets, who can survive being instantly flash frozen), as well as mortal souls and Demons, who can survive being ensnared by or totally bathed in lava respectively)

Drop the first left bracket after the first scan, anyways this isn't really resistance to temp manip for the first, since they still get frozen solid, its just that they don't suffer the negative effects (extreme cell death), so this would just be resistance to fire manip

Madness Manipulation (Type 3; Even when turned mortal, Celestials are unaffected by the madness of total perception experienced from observing time in 11 dimensions)=

Equal sign at the end

Potential additions

I think you could probably give Kitsune and other Celestials AE1, considering that as stated in this page's commentary

the mana chamber is subject to change its form and appearance to be a suitable location for unsealing the demigod within, transportation through time, or smackdown

and considering the thing sealed within was the Forgotten, and the statement Tarot made was general (in that the thing being manifested here is a demigod (or at least I'm assuming so, considering the circumstances), that should mean that all demigods are conceptual in nature, though the nonexistent nature of The Forgotten likely doesn't apply to other demigods (though it is additional support for the thing below, seeing as it calls itself not of this game and being the end of all things)

Anyways, looks good to me, though I would say, I think it should just be 1-A, even including what Ultima said on the matter, the Boardgame stuff (which is directly called out as a metaphor by one of the celestials in the same scan) isn't the only thing for it, as we also have this scan, which quoting the commentary

OH SO ITS NOT ENOUGH TO AVOID DRIVING THEM MAD BY NOT REVEALING MY TRUE ILLUSTRIOUS GLORY, SHINING AND UNBOUNDED BY THE CORRIDORS OF TIME AND SPACE BEFORE THEIR SINFUL EYES ANYMORE

In addition to stuff about Heaven being a wholly mental place, being timeless, and all that jazz, at worst I would say they should get BDE 1

 

[Robot972]

Going through the profile

Thank you so much for the notes. This profile seems to have been a magnet for **** ups for some reason because I've had to fix all sorts of formatting issues that seem to just manifest on their own lol

Should also include this in the second half of the justification, to clarify it better

Is this the wrong link or is the end of time bit what you're talking about?

Should gain resistance to perception manip by being able to see the other while they are near it

This and the statement about how they choose to be affected by demons. Thanks for pointing this out

This feels less like proper madness manip and more just something that happens as a consequence of the statue being loadbearing (despite not holding anything up) and thus touching and moving it would likely be a bit mindscrewy

Fair enough, though I definitely feel like you can make an argument for Type 3 based off that argument instead of 2 like I had

This seems less dissolving and more burning

Yeah, I wasn't really sure how to classify this since it's just never acknowledged, but burning would probably be the easier train of logic given his "super" form's appearance. I'll add it to the fire manipulation blurb

Drop the first left bracket after the first scan, anyways this isn't really resistance to temp manip for the first, since they still get frozen solid, its just that they don't suffer the negative effects (extreme cell death), so this would just be resistance to fire manip

I suppose, though I would have assumed the ability to survive flash freezing at all would be some minor resistance

I think you could probably give Kitsune and other Celestials AE1, considering that as stated in this page's commentary

I'll be honest, I don't think I understand Abstract Existence lol
But I suppose this fits in with the already listed description of Magic(k)'s subjective reality(?)

and considering the thing sealed within was the Forgotten

If you're referring to the statement you brought up for AE1, that's referring to how Pete and Spirit Dragon's avatars were sealed within their temples as part of the game until a mortal touched their mana pool (whole breakdown of this ruling being here)

Specifically it's talking about how the interior of the temple keeps changing depending on what the temple's being used for. For example, when Zach, Peanut, and Jelly showed up while Pete was still sealed away, the temple's interior was ONLY the mana pool room to make it as easy to get to as possible for the people (Jelly specifically) Pete wanted to be his avatar to get to it. But then the temple started shifting around to become maze-like to create varying challenges. When the gang came to send Satau back in time, the Mana Pool room was just some room in the middle of the temple while during that big temple raid Keene was hosting, the room was that grand void again for the drama of a big fight between the groups.

Which I realize I poorly explained the whole shifting temple gimmick in the profile, so I've added all that to the pocket reality blurb.

As for The Forgotten, we know Pandemonium isn't sealed within Pete's temple given the dimension is referred to as just being "below" the mortal realm and can be accessed from literally anywhere in the mortal realm, as you'd expect Hell to be. We don't really get an explanation for why the Forgotten was summoned since Tarot's explanation to Keene is conveniently skipped over, but it is probably just "really powerful negative emotion hit the all-powerful pool of power, and wild magic occured gg"

and the statement Tarot made was general (in that the thing being manifested here is a demigod (or at least I'm assuming so, considering the circumstances), that should mean that all demigods are conceptual in nature, though the nonexistent nature of The Forgotten likely doesn't apply to other demigods (though it is additional support for the thing below, seeing as it calls itself not of this game and being the end of all things)

To my knowledge it's never actually stated that The Forgotten is a god of any kind, demi or other. As far as we know, it's just a really ****** powerful demon.

Dunno what that ends up meaning for the actual gods though since they'd be transcending a conceptual being, but as I've said at every opportunity, I do not understand the rules of Abstract Existence lol

Anyways, looks good to me, though I would say, I think it should just be 1-A, even including what Ultima said on the matter, the Boardgame stuff (which is directly called out as a metaphor by one of the celestials in the same scan) isn't the only thing for it, as we also have this scan, which quoting the commentary

In addition to stuff about Heaven being a wholly mental place, being timeless, and all that jazz, at worst I would say they should get BDE 1

Idk. I have my opinions on 1A so I'll leave that discussion to other people to figure out

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

As Qawsed mentioned, unsure about the 11 dimensions statement, but other parts look good.

 

[Overlord775]

High 1-C seems like the safer bet than 1-B, since the pannel doesn't give enough context as to weather its counting time as part of the 11 dimensions

 

[Robot972]

High 1-C seems like the safer bet than 1-B, since the pannel doesn't give enough context as to weather its counting time as part of the 11 dimensions

Would there being 11 Dimensions even without time not still be indication for 1B?

 

[Deonment]

Thank you so much for the notes. This profile seems to have been a magnet for **** ups for some reason because I've had to fix all sorts of formatting issues that seem to just manifest on their own lol

Know the feeling, in that case I think I can notice a couple of other ones that I missed earlier (thinking they may have just been intentional, yet ******, formatting)

Dimensional Travel, Size Manipulation (Celestials can take on lower forms in order to interact within the universes themselves), Shapeshifting (Celestials assume their chosen forms based off ideas they like from mortals. Can take on a variety of other appearances, including other species)

This you probably meant to put in a sub bulletpoint

Small Size (Type 0; Can create a form the same size as Pets. Most pets stand at 3 feet or less)

Ditto the above

Dream Manipulation (Can communicate with mortals through dreams),

Moreso meant this as like, a subcategory of the Dimensional Travel, BFR stuff

Power Modification (Can modify the rules of spells to create drastically different effects, such as modifying a detection spell to cause damage. Could exploit loopholes in a game's magic system to overthrow the Game Master)

Ditto the first two

Transmutation, Life Manipulation (Can overtake their Avatar or misc objects, transforming said entity into themself. Can instantly convert souls into flesh-and-blood by removing their halos)

this should probably be in a sub bulletpoint of possession (or in a separate bulletpoint but still part of power bestowal's bulletpoints)

Explosion Manipulation (Could remove the demonic energy from Steward via a Kenshiro reference, causing him to spontaneously explode and turning him mortal once more)

Ditto the above but for Power Null

Soul Manipulation (Could rewrite Joel's soul to allow him to pass into Dog Heaven and consulted an individual's innermost soul to determine their truest desires. Large quantities of stockpiled mana is described as capable of pulverizing souls)

Ditto the first two

Perception Manipulation, Illusion Creation (Though Celestials choose to be affected by perception-based illusions to retain a "balanced" playing field, they are more than capable of removing these illusions whenever

"whenever they wish" or some variant on it + a bracket should end that

Is this the wrong link or is the end of time bit what you're talking about?

It's to show better that the earlier scene actually was timestop (since the scan by itself can be seen as a bit unclear on the matter), mainly since it shows Kitsune unstopping them

I suppose, though I would have assumed the ability to survive flash freezing at all would be some minor resistance

Nah, resistance would not be getting frozen in the first place or being unaffected by it in a way that allows you to break out instantly, which isn't the case here (at least from what I can see)

I'll be honest, I don't think I understand Abstract Existence lol
But I suppose this fits in with the already listed description of Magic(k)'s subjective reality(?)

IG, though a question I have is if Celestials are innate residents of Heaven (as in are they from there), or their "true forms" or what have you exist in some nebulous even higher plane

Temple Stuff

Ic, got it

As for The Forgotten, we know Pandemonium isn't sealed within Pete's temple given the dimension is referred to as just being "below" the mortal realm and can be accessed from literally anywhere in the mortal realm, as you'd expect Hell to be. We don't really get an explanation for why the Forgotten was summoned since Tarot's explanation to Keene is conveniently skipped over, but it is probably just "really powerful negative emotion hit the all-powerful pool of power, and wild magic occured gg"

To my knowledge it's never actually stated that The Forgotten is a god of any kind, demi or other. As far as we know, it's just a really ****** powerful demon.

Dunno what that ends up meaning for the actual gods though since they'd be transcending a conceptual being, but as I've said at every opportunity, I do not understand the rules of Abstract Existence lol

Do they actually transcend demons and the like? Just a clarifying question, I can still see them having AE off of their own stuff, though the Forgotten being a demon does make the argument a bit weaker since you can't argue that the demigods/celestials share of a similar status to it off just that alone, though you can still likely say so, considering they exist as naturally in heaven as they do in lower realms and generalizing the statement to include celestials and the like depending on how they relate to demons.

Anyways it wouldn't mean much for AE1

Idk. I have my opinions on 1A so I'll leave that discussion to other people to figure out

Sure

 

[Robot972]

It's to show better that the earlier scene actually was timestop (since the scan by itself can be seen as a bit unclear on the matter), mainly since it shows Kitsune unstopping them

I suppose so. I’ll just put the page that comes next

Nah, resistance would not be getting frozen in the first place or being unaffected by it in a way that allows you to break out instantly, which isn't the case here (at least from what I can see)

Fair enough

IG, though a question I have is if Celestials are innate residents of Heaven (as in are they from there), or their "true forms" or what have you exist in some nebulous even higher plane

Heaven is more of a workplace than where they originate since Celestials can be moved around jobs and whatnot, but we don’t have a proper answer of where they come from

Do they actually transcend demons and the like?

The Forgotten is once again a bit of a mystery since it’s never mentioned again, as with most higher beings, but demons in this world are the negative aspects of a person split off upon desth.

Heaven’s souls and Pandemonium’s demons are basically a Ninjask / Shedinja situation

Just a clarifying question, I can still see them having AE off of their own stuff, though the Forgotten being a demon does make the argument a bit weaker since you can't argue that the demigods/celestials share of a similar status to it off just that alone, though you can still likely say so, considering they exist as naturally in heaven as they do in lower realms and generalizing the statement to include celestials and the like depending on how they relate to demons.

Anyways it wouldn't mean much for AE1

Idk. As said, I barely understand the rules of AE lol

 

[Overlord775]

Would there being 11 Dimensions even without time not still be indication for 1B?

11-d is High 1-C

 

[Robot972]

11-d is High 1-C

What I meant is there being 11 Dimensions for the gods to transcend

 

[Deonment]

Heaven is more of a workplace than where they originate since Celestials can be moved around jobs and whatnot, but we don’t have a proper answer of where they come from

The Forgotten is once again a bit of a mystery since it’s never mentioned again, as with most higher beings, but demons in this world are the negative aspects of a person split off upon desth.

Heaven’s souls and Pandemonium’s demons are basically a Ninjask / Shedinja situation

Got it, though for the Forgotten in specific, it seems to be like, (the container of) everything that has ever ceased to be, forgotten game elements, characters, etc, like a garbage bin

Idk. As said, I barely understand the rules of AE lol

Yeah, honestly fair

 

[Enter_Bluey]

I basically agree ability evaluation above for those abilities.

As for the tier, I think 1B is fine since it looks like transcend that 11D multiverse similar to what made them low 1-C before, unless I understood this wrong

 

[Robot972]

Bump

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Looks good to me

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with what Qawsedf234 accepted here.

 

[Robot972]

I am fine with what Qawsedf234 accepted here.

Alright, thank you.

Is this enough to add both sets of changes then?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, only what has been accepted by all three staff members here obviously.

 

[Robot972]

Well, only what has been accepted by all three staff members here obviously.

Alright, I had a feeling it was three staff members given the nature, but wanted to double check. Thanks again

 

[Elizhaa]

The abilities update looks fine; the tiers like 1-B look fine, also.

 

[Robot972]

Well, only what has been accepted by all three staff members here obviously.

Alright, the 1B tiering has been approved by 3 staff and the abilities by at least 2 but possibly 4 staff. So afaik this should be good to go then

Would you be able to unlock Kitsune's profile for me so I can make the edits?

 

[Re5yh]

Agree with upgrade