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This CRT has the purpose of updating the Emanators and those who scales to them to High 1-C

Let's start with him, the goat fraud, Welt Yang, and his signature weapon in HSR, the Star of Eden that transformed into a cane, but despite him possessing such powerful Divine, he was unable to defeat the likes of Phantylia, Aventurine of Stratagems and Harmonious Choir without help of the Astral Express crew, barely winning these battles even with further help of other characters such as Jing Yuan, Acheron and Robin.

In Phanylia's case, she was initially toying with the Astral Express and Jing Yuan, but after several failed attempts of putting them down, she began taking the battle seriously and overpowered all of them, and was only defeated after being forced into a mental-link with Jing Yuan, he managed to let her to be off-guard, allowing both Imbibitor Lunae and the Lightning-Lord to defeat her with a coordinated attack. Jing Yuan even stated that if Phantylia wasn't so focused in her attempts to transform him into a Voidranger, victory would be far from certain.

In Aventurine of Stratagems's case, despite being weakened due to his broken Cornerstone, he was able have the upper against Welt and the Astral Express crew, which was confirmed when her forced Acheron to interfere the fight, which is something that she stated that she would only do if the odds aren't in favor of the Astral Express, and then she destroyed his rain of large coins and proceeded to one-shot him while transformed, all with a single attack

In Harmonious Choir's case, the Astral Express crew was being crushed and overpowered by Harmonious Choir's great power before Robin get there to help them, and even so, it was apparently a hard battle to win

"But, but Enryu! How do you know Welt used the Star of Eden on these fights!" Well, these parts show that he indeed used the Divine Key against these opponents, also, as we can see in the video explaining Welt's gameplay mechanics, Welt's main weapon of combat and primary fighting style in HSR is just using the Star of Eden to manipulate gravity and create black holes, all these battles that he participated confirms what his "Keep up with Star Rail" video said is truth regarding how he fights

Phantylia, Aventurine of Stratagems and Harmonious Choir should also get Resistance to Honkai Energy (Herrscher) and Star of Eden's powers due to the Divine Key using Honkai Energy at the level of a Herrscher as its primary power source for its abilities, with practically Honkai Energy being used in all its attacks and it being unable to put down any of these three, with them only being defeated due to circumstances of these battles and help from other characters, and we saw that if a person is a threat to innocents, Welt will not hold back in killing this threat even if it is a kid with a tragic past such as the Herrscher of the Void Sirin, and he had no reason in not trying to do the same or at least defeat these three, due to Phantylia being a mass murder and destructive force of evil as a Lord Ravager, Aventurine threatening to destroy the entire Clock Studios Theme Park with a rain of large coins with people there, and Sunday trying to force everyone inside of the Dreamscape in an eternal sleep with very realistic dreams

In short, Emanators should get an update to High 1-C due to Welt with the Star of Eden being unable to defeat them without any help and those who scale to them should also be updated to that Tier by default, since the reason majority of the characters are 3-C currently is because of their scaling to the Lord Ravagers/Overlords, Emanators of Destruction, who are stated to be capable of incinerating entire galaxies. Phantylia, Aventurine of Stratagems and Harmonious Choir should get Resistance to Honkai Energy (Herrscher) and Star of Eden's abilities

Agree: 2 (Lloydblitzed, GarrixianXD, )

Disagree: 1 (Mageman460)
 
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I was told by @VoidGoji that the Star of Eden wielded in HSR isn't the same that he used against Sirin. I'll wait for what he has to say; as of now, I'm neutral.
 
I disagree, Welt threatens Acheron with the 'black hole.' Acheron even implies the Star of Eden is greater than her.

No. Acheron stated that "it shouldn't be necessary" after being threatened, without any expression of fear. She simply doesn't want any feuds with the Astral Express. Also, when she was talking about the black hole and contrasting it to her blade, she meant the black hole was more dangerous and destructive, which doesn't necessarily denote it is more powerful.
 
"But, but Enryu! How do you know Welt used the Star of Eden on these fights!" Well, these parts show that he indeed used the Divine Key against these opponents, also, as we can see in the video explaining Welt's gameplay mechanics, Welt's main weapon of combat and primary fighting style in HSR is just using the Star of Eden to manipulate gravity and create black holes, all these battles that he participated confirms what his "Keep up with Star Rail" video said is truth regarding how he fights
I'm pretty sure all of SoE's feats that show it destroying higher dimensional realms come from its Zeroth Power and Singularity Rebuild. So, I think Welt should at least use one of these two against his opponents in HSR to reach H1-C. For now, I disagree.
 
In Phanylia's case, she was initially toying with the Astral Express and Jing Yuan, but after several failed attempts of putting them down, she began taking the battle seriously and overpowered all of them, and was only defeated after being forced into a mental-link with Jing Yuan, he managed to let her to be off-guard, allowing both Imbibitor Lunae and the Lightning-Lord to defeat her with a coordinated attack. Jing Yuan even stated that if Phantylia wasn't so focused in her attempts to transform him into a Voidranger, victory would be far from certain.

In Aventurine of Stratagems's case, despite being weakened due to his broken Cornerstone, he was able have the upper against Welt and the Astral Express crew, which was confirmed when her forced Acheron to interfere the fight, which is something that she stated that she would only do if the odds aren't in favor of the Astral Express, and then she destroyed his rain of large coins and proceeded to one-shot him while transformed, all with a single attack

In Harmonious Choir's case, the Astral Express crew was being crushed and overpowered by Harmonious Choir's great power before Robin get there to help them, and even so, it was apparently a hard battle to win

"But, but Enryu! How do you know Welt used the Star of Eden on these fights!" Well, these parts show that he indeed used the Divine Key against these opponents, also, as we can see in the video explaining Welt's gameplay mechanics, Welt's main weapon of combat and primary fighting style in HSR is just using the Star of Eden to manipulate gravity and create black holes, all these battles that he participated confirms what his "Keep up with Star Rail" video said is truth regarding how he fights

I went through these links and none of them show Welt using the Star of Eden, the closest one is this, but taking a close look at it, Welt was interrupted before he could use it,. We have never see Welt using his cane against them on screen aside from gameplay, at least from the links you provided he is only chilling around. Also, even if he did, tanking a weapon that uses gravity as its power is just resistance to Gravity manipulation, you would have to provide a reasoning why tanking gravity and black holes should be a durability feat for them instead, since the wiki goes with resistance than durability by default.

Phantylia, Aventurine of Stratagems and Harmonious Choir should also get Resistance to Honkai Energy (Herrscher) and Star of Eden's powers due to the Divine Key using Honkai Energy at the level of a Herrscher as its primary power source for its abilities, with practically Honkai Energy being used in all its attacks and it being unable to put down any of these three, with them only being defeated due to circumstances of these battles and help from other characters, and we saw that if a person is a threat to innocents, Welt will not hold back in killing this threat even if it is a kid with a tragic past such as the Herrscher of the Void Sirin, and he had no reason in not trying to do the same or at least defeat these three, due to Phantylia being a mass murder and destructive force of evil as a Lord Ravager, Aventurine threatening to destroy the entire Clock Studios Theme Park with a rain of large coins with people there, and Sunday trying to force everyone inside of the Dreamscape in an eternal sleep with very realistic dreams

I already adressed the problems with the scaling in the first part of my post, but just because you defeated someone doesnt mean that you resist everything he does. Welt didn't try to increase their weight, Welt didn't try to manipulate higher-dimensions against them (which is why even from Star of Eden's AP come from btw), he didn't try to stop them with Telekinesis, he didn't manipulate chaos, corruption, mind, fate, reality warping, you name it against them, you have to prove he used all of that against them and they resisted it, which you didn't, you can't scale resistances like that and this is a major problem with this verse, which I plan to tackle in the future.

I should also note that as off now, all of Honkai energy is sealed on the moon by Kiana, Raiden Mei and Bronya Zaychik don't even have their Herrschers powers anymore as per APHO, Idk why Welt would be any different, since there is no Honkai energy in Honkai: Star Rail as we haven't seen Herrschers, Honkai beasts, people getting Honkai infections, which would mean Star of Eden has no place to draw Honkai energy from.
 
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I haven't kept up with much of the story myself, but seeing what Shiroiyo said, I'd change my stance to neutral with this revision.
The SoE was destroyed, Bronya even created a new one in Kolosten and used it to destroy the rest of HoDom's 11-D domain. Plus, Shiroyo does bring up the points that its not confirmed that Welt used HE against emanators. I agree with their points of just resistance to gravity manipulation.
It'll be useful if you can show a scan of this, as I currently can't find one about this.
 
I went through these links and none of them show Welt using the Star of Eden, the closest one is this, but taking a close look at it, Welt was interrupted before he could use it,. We have never see Welt using his cane against them on screen aside from gameplay, at least from the links you provided he is only chilling around. Also, even if he did, tanking a weapon that uses gravity as its power is just resistance to Gravity manipulation, you would have to provide a reasoning why tanking gravity and black holes should be a durability feat for them instead, since the wiki goes with resistance than durability by default.



I already adressed the problems with the scaling in the first part of my post, but just because you defeated someone doesnt mean that you resist everything he does. Welt didn't try to increase their weight, Welt didn't try to manipulate higher-dimensions against them (which is why even from Star of Eden's AP come from btw), he didn't try to stop them with Telekinesis, he didn't manipulate chaos, corruption, mind, fate, reality warping, you name it against them, you have to prove he used all of that against them and they resisted it, which you didn't, you can't scale resistances like that and this is a major problem with this verse, which I plan to tackle in the future.

I should also note that as off now, all of Honkai energy is sealed on the moon by Kiana, Raiden Mei and Bronya Zaychik don't even have their Herrschers powers anymore as per APHO, Idk why Welt would be any different, since there is no Honkai energy in Honkai: Star Rail as we haven't seen Herrschers, Honkai beasts, people getting Honkai infections, which would mean Star of Eden has no place to draw Honkai energy from.
This+ Welt should have his hi3 key and not just hsr one
im disagree too
 
I already adressed the problems with the scaling in the first part of my post, but just because you defeated someone doesnt mean that you resist everything he does. Welt didn't try to increase their weight, Welt didn't try to manipulate higher-dimensions against them (which is why even from Star of Eden's AP come from btw), he didn't try to stop them with Telekinesis, he didn't manipulate chaos, corruption, mind, fate, reality warping, you name it against them, you have to prove he used all of that against them and they resisted it, which you didn't, you can't scale resistances like that and this is a major problem with this verse, which I plan to tackle in the future.
This is a problem in VSBW itself, I mean if you have to prove all of them then essentially it'll be saying that resisting to Honkai Energy / Imaginary Energy doesn't mean that you resist all of the abilities in there.

I'm mostly neutral, but I'm inclined to agree as it was already accepted on LS that Emanators are massively superior than Pathstriders. Plus, this wouldn't break the scaling like if I did Low 1-A thread for Emanators in which there's just no gatekeeping them at all and Pathstriders would also be Low 1-A (Jing Yuan's Lightning Lord is a good example of this since Jingliu tanked it + survived later).
 
I went through these links and none of them show Welt using the Star of Eden, the closest one is this, but taking a close look at it, Welt was interrupted before he could use it,. We have never see Welt using his cane against them on screen aside from gameplay, at least from the links you provided he is only chilling around. Also, even if he did, tanking a weapon that uses gravity as its power is just resistance to Gravity manipulation, you would have to provide a reasoning why tanking gravity and black holes should be a durability feat for them instead, since the wiki goes with resistance than durability by default.



I already adressed the problems with the scaling in the first part of my post, but just because you defeated someone doesnt mean that you resist everything he does. Welt didn't try to increase their weight, Welt didn't try to manipulate higher-dimensions against them (which is why even from Star of Eden's AP come from btw), he didn't try to stop them with Telekinesis, he didn't manipulate chaos, corruption, mind, fate, reality warping, you name it against them, you have to prove he used all of that against them and they resisted it, which you didn't, you can't scale resistances like that and this is a major problem with this verse, which I plan to tackle in the future.

I should also note that as off now, all of Honkai energy is sealed on the moon by Kiana, Raiden Mei and Bronya Zaychik don't even have their Herrschers powers anymore as per APHO, Idk why Welt would be any different, since there is no Honkai energy in Honkai: Star Rail as we haven't seen Herrschers, Honkai beasts, people getting Honkai infections, which would mean Star of Eden has no place to draw Honkai energy from.
Basically this, he never used any of SoE's signature abilities that gives it it's high ratings in the first place. The narrative also supports him being at the very least somewhat comparable to these characters even without it's Zeroth power via dialogue shared between him and Acheron, otherwise she wouldn't of even bothered mentioning his capabilities at all. Phantaylia is also only seen overpowering Jing Yuan and even then Jing Yuan was baiting her on purpose, sure she was extremely focused on turning him into a void ranger but the end result is that she was defeated by LL & DHIL, which I think we can all agree that both are inferior to the full capabilities of the SoE based off feats so....that is kinda the main crux of the argument imo.
 
I was checking some CN scans and the Divine Keys created by the Herrscher of Reason are weaker. I know this is talking about the Void Archive but the latter is the first Divine Key as it was made using the Core of the Herrscher of Reason. Though, I might as well adress some stuff I disagree too

Later Welt considered Acheron's powers terrifying after witnessing what she did against Aventurine of Stratagems

I opened the scan and Welt didn't mention nor compared the Star of Eden to her naught. Welt is attributing Acheron's terrifying factor to its ability to affect the entire dreamscape, which is a range feat.
This is a problem in VSBW itself, I mean if you have to prove all of them then essentially it'll be saying that resisting to Honkai Energy / Imaginary Energy doesn't mean that you resist all of the abilities in there.

VSBW's rules on resistances don't apply in this context, since for example: Honkai resistance comes from Stigmata, other people have Stigmata, therefore fine to scale by this site standards. And like, no one is getting Honkai resistance via fighting someone in Honkai Impact 3rd, a quick look on the pages would already tell you that.
I'm mostly neutral, but I'm inclined to agree as it was already accepted on LS that Emanators are massively superior than Pathstriders. Plus, this wouldn't break the scaling like

It would though, as according to the op himself, everyone who is in 3-C will be upgraded to High 1-C, this will scale to pathstriders, Trailblazer and with that S-rank valks, which would be people like Theresa or Cecilia, since they are the only relevant Valks Welt has ever interacted with, Siegriend too aside from APHO ones. Then, Sirin scales... the problem is, Welt would have killed Sirin with the black hole, which really makes me wonder how the scaling would even work here.
 
VSBW's rules on resistances don't apply in this context, since for example: Honkai resistance comes from Stigmata, other people have Stigmata, therefore fine to scale by this site standards. And like, no one is getting Honkai resistance via fighting someone in Honkai Impact 3rd, a quick look on the pages would already tell you that.
Yeah, I just realized this apparently. Thought it would be the same with Imaginary Energy (That's actually why there's tons of abilities that they resist to as long as they have that stigmata..)
It would though, as according to the op himself, everyone who is in 3-C will be upgraded to High 1-C, this will scale to pathstriders, Trailblazer and with that S-rank valks, which would be people like Theresa or Cecilia, since they are the only relevant Valks Welt has ever interacted with, Siegriend too aside from APHO ones. Then, Sirin scales... the problem is, Welt would have killed Sirin with the black hole, which really makes me wonder how the scaling would even work here.
I mean, most of the characters that's 3-C scales from Emanators.. Jeez, it really sucks when it comes to tiering..

Moving to disagree for now unless there are better arguments, I really can't say much since it's the equivalent of scaling them all to Low 1-A.
 
I think this is enough for me to disagree with this crt then. Enryu told me he will be busy with irl stuff, so this thread will likely be on hold. I'll ask for this to be closed in the meantime.
 
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