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Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

SuperNova55555 said:
Alright so get ready for my immense display of intellect:

1) IX is the Void of the Universe (pretty obvious but also directly stated in Aha’s ascension not-so-myth-anymore)

2) IX is Chaos (via the existence of the Doctors of Chaos)

3) IX stands in contrast to the Imaginary Tree (As Nihility is always contrasted to Existence, and the other name of IT is specifically the “Tree of Existence” [Akivili’s description, Aha Myth etc.])

4) The Universe is in an eternal recurrence under IX’s shadow (Izumo set description)

5) IX is beyond Nanook’s destruction (Nanook’s description refers to the Material World and Matter [via Anti-Matter] whereas the Horizon of Existence [“Existence” again] is described as the end of the material realm)

6) Both IX and Terminus are described as “sleeping” and “shapeless”

7) When all things return to nothingness (IX), Zephyro will launch itself into it, causing a bright flash of light to emerge. This is because he represents White Holes—the opposites of Black Holes.

8) The Universe is an indiscernible void (IX) without the Imaginary Tree (Data Bank statement)

9) The Quantum Vacuum (SoQ) is the lowest-energy state of empty space. And a universe can emerge from here.

10) The Heat Death of the universe (Nanook), causes the last things to exist to be black holes (until they radiate away).

Thus,

The Universe initially existed as a barren, empty nothingness (SoQ/Primordial Chaos), from there, the big bang happened creating all things and the Tree of Existence.

When the entire material world returns to it (nothingness/IX) through destruction and entropy and the like, Zephyro will hurl himself into it, causing all the things absorbed into IX (since it’s a black hole) to be expunged violently (through a white hole) in a flash of light (creating the big bang). Thus, this is “Finality”, or an ending bringing about a new beginning. And thus, the universe/Tree remains its cycle within IX’s shadow emerging and returning to it over and over.
Click to expand...
On IX’s Data Bank btw:
"You may gaze deep into the vast grandeur of the stars, but do not glance at the abyss of the void... for it holds nothing except for the ability to make mortals lose all reason and thought."
— Murong, Doctor of Chaos
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^ The only other time that Nietzsche is referenced like this is with SoQ soooo
 
SuperNova55555 said:
On IX’s Data Bank btw:

^ The only other time that Nietzsche is referenced like this is with SoQ soooo
Click to expand...
In the story, the world people inhabit is depicted as a towering tree, composed of ownerless energy. "This kind of energy is invisible, intangible, incomprehensible, and meaningless," she thought, "just like how IX has no meaning."
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Masterless Imaginary Energy is likely equated to Nihility, which makes sense since Nihility is the lack of meaning or in other words, a “Path”. So the Path of Nihility might eventually lead to the lack of a Path entirely.

I believe this adds to my theory of IX being SoQ.
 
SuperNova55555 said:
Masterless Imaginary Energy is likely equated to Nihility, which makes sense since Nihility is the lack of meaning or in other words, a “Path”. So the Path of Nihility might eventually lead to the lack of a Path entirely.

I believe this adds to my theory of IX being SoQ.
Click to expand...

I'll be honest - Personally I think 'Masterless Imaginary Energy' is Honkai Energy. The Paths and Aeons attune Imaginary Energy, giving the pathstriders and Emanators varying abilities depending on their path.

This'd also explain why Pathstriders don't suffer from things like Honkai Sickness. The energy they take in isn't as pure.

This is of course headcanon until I or others find some concrete proof of this, and it probably exists - Herta stating that there's a 'Path Energy Anomaly' as Irontomb targets that Path of Erudition rather than anything about Imaginary Energy, different Emanators having different hax like Acheron being effected less by other paths due to being an Emanator of Nihility, so on so forth.

It also has some cool implications surrounding how Imaginary Energy can effect concepts. Herrschers can effect whatever concept they like and the Cocoon could've selected any concept to make a Herrscher out of, it was just bound by Prometheus repeating the previous era. Under this theory, when Imaginary Energy is tethered to a path it represents the concept of Erudition and all things under it, very much similar to a Herrscher, by becoming path energy it can no longer represent other concepts.
 
PlungingThroughTime said:
I'll be honest - Personally I think 'Masterless Imaginary Energy' is Honkai Energy. The Paths and Aeons attune Imaginary Energy, giving the pathstriders and Emanators varying abilities depending on their path.

This'd also explain why Pathstriders don't suffer from things like Honkai Sickness. The energy they take in isn't as pure.

This is of course headcanon until I or others find some concrete proof of this, and it probably exists - Herta stating that there's a 'Path Energy Anomaly' as Irontomb targets that Path of Erudition rather than anything about Imaginary Energy, different Emanators having different hax like Acheron being effected less by other paths due to being an Emanator of Nihility, so on so forth.

It also has some cool implications surrounding how Imaginary Energy can effect concepts. Herrschers can effect whatever concept they like and the Cocoon could've selected any concept to make a Herrscher out of, it was just bound by Prometheus repeating the previous era. Under this theory, when Imaginary Energy is tethered to a path it represents the concept of Erudition and all things under it, very much similar to a Herrscher, by becoming path energy it can no longer represent other concepts.
Click to expand...
Nanook is literally made from Internal Imaginary Energy (and we know Xipe’s power also has that), i.e what Honkai is. High chance is that Aeons are just the manifestations of Honkai when the civilization has advanced to it’s absolute extreme, since philosophies themselves represent the evolution of a civilization
 
SuperNova55555 said:
Nanook is literally made from Internal Imaginary Energy (and we know Xipe’s power also has that), i.e what Honkai is. High chance is that Aeons are just the manifestations of Honkai when the civilization has advanced to it’s absolute extreme, since philosophies themselves represent the evolution of a civilization
Click to expand...
Xipe ate ENA because ENA didnt have Low 1-C durability from High level Honkai energy
 
For the planarcadia TB key could i potentially make them 11-A while in the 2D world?
 
SuperNova55555 said:
Nanook is literally made from Internal Imaginary Energy (and we know Xipe’s power also has that), i.e what Honkai is. High chance is that Aeons are just the manifestations of Honkai when the civilization has advanced to it’s absolute extreme, since philosophies themselves represent the evolution of a civilization
Click to expand...
Yeah also very possible, forgot about the Nanook thing tbh
 
Now that I think about it. If we ignore the mfs with wanked hax like IX, genuinely what does anyone in this verse do to something like GER…?
 
SuperNova55555 said:
This is js kinda larp; HSR is fine, Hi3 is the one that contradicts its own story. The former is prob better on alone tho, def
Click to expand...
How does hsr contradict when hi3 came first?? 😭😭😭 all other media in hoyo were consistant with the cosmology then hsr came not to mention emanators scaling to aeons (still havent seen the emanators can draw from aeons statement)
 
Mbpoops said:
How does hsr contradict when hi3 came first?? 😭😭😭 all other media in hoyo were consistant with the cosmology then hsr came not to mention emanators scaling to aeons (still havent seen the emanators can draw from aeons statement)
Click to expand...
No I’m saying that Hi3 is self-contradictory. And what “consistently” do you even have to talk about when there were no other games to contadict Hi3 lol
 
SuperNova55555 said:
This is js kinda larp; HSR is fine, Hi3 is the one that contradicts its own story. The former is prob better on alone tho, def
Click to expand...

I'd argue HSR contradicts Hi3 - Hi3 is pretty consistent throughout about the Imaginary Tree and SoQ, I've learnt recently that the explanation provided by Eins in the Moon arc is basically a simplified explanation of the one in the Durandal visual novel.
 
SuperNova55555 said:
No, I don’t doubt that. I’m saying that Hi3 has internal contradictions like with the 3 dimensions scans I brought up earlier. And as far as I’m aware, it is also inconsistent with it’s portrayal of the story early on (manga vs game).
Click to expand...

Where are the scans so I can take a look? I don't remember - + I'd need specifics to say anything about the story being inconsistent.
 
PlungingThroughTime said:
Where are the scans so I can take a look? I don't remember
Click to expand...
SuperNova55555 said:
Visual Novel: Universe has 4 real + 7 compact dimensions (10 space + 1 time)

Imaginary Space scan: Universe only has 4 dimensions (3 space + 1 time)

Alien Space: Universe actually has a fourth R>F dimension

IMG-7235.jpg
Click to expand...
I made a meme for it 😃

PlungingThroughTime said:
I'd need specifics to say anything about the story being inconsistent.
Click to expand...
The stigmata thingy for example
 
SuperNova55555 said:
The stigmata thingy for example
Click to expand...

The Imaginary Space scan is likely Otto talking about base reality (Hi3 Earth) which is 4D. If not then the only other scan I can think of is Durandal saying to Kiana that they can only perceive in 3 dimensions.

The Alien Space scan is Ryusuke being 5D via the divine key he was using. Welt nullified the dimensional advantage by using his Herrscher core's connection to the Cocoon of Finality (exists above the Tree) to perceive the space Ryusuke was in and the attacks coming at him. He then decimated Ryusuke with singularity rebuild.

I don't see how this is inconsistent, it's just a hax ability and it's not like Ryusuke was on the tree.

As for Stigmata it's incredibly difficult to see what you mean by this. Here's a rundown on the basics in case you've picked up an inconsistency. I don't know how you expect me to reply, disprove or accept the story being 'inconsistent' without specifics.

True / Herrscher Stigmata - Examples are Mei and Seele. This gives them far more potential to connect with their matching core. This isn't always required, as seen with any Herrscher of Reason after Welt Joyce and Wendy.

Natural Stigmata - Created by Fire Moth, specifically Dr Mei and Mobius. This was directly inspired by Herrscher stigmata. (In the Jizo Mitama chapter of the Manga we see Stigmatas unused anywhere else, representing the divine keys made from the Previous Era Herrschers - These are blatantly their Stigmata, so we know they existed in the previous era). They can be passed on through bloodline and change people's DNA, though in the Current Era are so diluted that they need to be triggered. This makes Natural Stigmata exceptionally rare. They can still pass on things like exceptional strength even when dormant, as seen by Siegfried 1v1'ing a Honkai Beast with nothing but a metal baseball bat simply because he's a Kaslana and they're built like that.

Artificial Stigmata - Designed based on natural stigmata but due to lack of understanding they're horrid. They provide enhanced honkai resistance but decrease lifespan. People can still become zombies with Artificial Stigmata too. Himeko has this type of Stigmata.

We know every Stigmata has a related 'Stigmata Space' - Mei's stores her other consciousness and is often depicted as a white, blank space. Seele's is where her alter ego is stored and is seen in her related animated short and in the manga. We see the Kaslana Stigmata space in Chapter 31 EX and where Siegfried gets stabbed on the moon. We even see Durandal encounter the Kaslana stigmata space.

The Stigmata and Honkai are also very connected to dreams, the Honkai thinks in dreams and Vishnu, the Honkai Beast, can devour them. (This is why Theresa can devour dreams, she has Vishnu's DNA). If you want to get into what Hare is that's a whole other complicated can of worms.
 
PlungingThroughTime said:
The Imaginary Space scan is likely Otto talking about base reality (Hi3 Earth) which is 4D.
Click to expand...
This doesn’t seem to be implied at all, unless I’m missing huge context or there’s a big TL issue

PlungingThroughTime said:
I don't see how this is inconsistent, it's just a hax ability and it's not like Ryusuke was on the tree.
Click to expand...
Is this confirmed?

PlungingThroughTime said:
As for Stigmata it's incredibly difficult to see what you mean by this.
Click to expand...
I’m talking about one of the mangas (Mystery of Stigmata, won’t let me link it for some reason). This specific one isn’t fully consistent with other parts of the series and iirc even flashbacks from AE Invasion portray the events differently
 
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Mbpoops said:
i mean all he did was fuse with the alien key which is a higher dimensional space with R>F we are not saying alien space = tree 😭
Click to expand...
Never said it was the Tree, but it certainly seems extremely counterintuitive for Ryusuke to go to a higher dimension and then leave the entire Tree lmao. It would be even weirder if you were to say that Alien Space > Tree
 
SuperNova55555 said:
This doesn’t seem to be implied at all, unless I’m missing huge context or there’s a big TL issue


Is this confirmed?


I’m talking about one of the mangas (Mystery of Stigmata, won’t let me link it for some reason). This specific one isn’t fully consistent with other parts of the series and iirc even flashbacks from AE Invasion portray the events differently
Click to expand...
1 - If you show me the scan I can go into more depth on it.

2 - As said the Key wouldn't be above the tree. We know very little about the sugars.

3 - Mystery of Stigmata isn't on the Hi3 manga website which likely means it's non-canon. It tells a story retold by two of the chronicles in-game (though it's an alternative version of events). It contains loose ends that are considered scrapped (but also contains content referenced by later stories) - It fills some holes but kinda contradicts in game material while not even being on the official website so it's best to treat is as non-canon.
 
Mbpoops said:
I think you missinterpreted what he meant. Alien space is only above real space notvthe entire tree
Click to expand...
This is why I said “if” (Megumi reference). But it js means that Alien Space would have to be in a weird pseudo-physical state (which nothing implies it is), since the series makes it clear that only Real Space is corporeal

PlungingThroughTime said:
1 - If you show me the scan I can go into more depth on it.
Click to expand...
IMG-6928.webp


PlungingThroughTime said:
(but also contains content referenced by later stories)
Click to expand...
Why I said it’s contradictory. A lot of stuff js becomes semi-canon and shit which is why it’s internally inconsistent
 
early story of HI3 have been change multiple time iirc so the older the manga is the more likely for it to be non-canon even some manga that is in official site is questionable like we don't even know if Theresa still have Sakura Stigma (The Gratitude Arc) on her or not or it never happen in the first place as there is no mention of it at all
 
Ezalipaz said:
early story of HI3 have been change multiple time iirc so the older the manga is the more likely for it to be non-canon
Click to expand...
Pretty sure the nagazora stuff is canon to both hi3 and ggz the timeline splits around the 3rd eruption
Ezalipaz said:
even some manga that is in official site is questionable like we don't even know if Theresa still have Sakura Stigma (The Gratitude Arc)
Click to expand...
She lost it after the manga its shown in the manga
Ezalipaz said:
on her or not or it never happen in the first place as there is no mention of it at all
Click to expand...
Theres dorm room dialog i believe that supports it being canon
 
SuperNova55555 said:
This is why I said “if” (Megumi reference). But it js means that Alien Space would have to be in a weird pseudo-physical state (which nothing implies it is), since the series makes it clear that only Real Space is corporeal


IMG-6928.webp



Why I said it’s contradictory. A lot of stuff js becomes semi-canon and shit which is why it’s internally inconsistent
Click to expand...

  • The four dimensional space around us is the only space of real numbers.
  • If this 4D space is a world sphere, everything outside is Imaginary Space.
  • Only within 4D space is the flow of time, length / size of objects and increments of speed constant / has a constant relationship. Time is asynchronous in Imaginary Space. Conventional space and time don't apply to the imaginary space, so this immediately debunks this saying that the tree is 4D.

- The space of real numbers is a peculiarity existing within imaginary space, imaginary space is innumerous, exist in infinite amounts.

- Exceeds the scope of human rationality. Cannot be fully recognised by the human (4d) mind. Durandal even says this to Kiana, that they can only comprehend 3 spatial + 1 temporal dimensions.

I don't see how you interpret this as the tree being 4D. If anything it's saying the opposite because space and time aren't conventional in imaginary space.

Cough cough it says 4D reality is the only space of real numbers hence the SoQ can't be composed of real numbers and thus isn't part of 'Base Reality' or anything like that.

Just a footnote that I can't find where this screenshot is from with google reverse search. I'd be grateful to know where it came from but for some reason I think I recognise it from a handbook that has exact blueprints for the Hyperion. Don't ask why I know this exists LOL.

Also it's not contradictory if it's non-canon and that manga contains a lot of dropped plotpoints, hence why it isn't in-game and alternatives have been provided in game for the things they wanted to keep. (chronicles)
 
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