Honkai Impact 3rd Discussion Thread (Reborn)

[Shiroiyo]

I just ask you not to rush for revisions using loose feats.

Again, I don't remember the context of the feat. I just tell you to leave the cooking to me in the general crt I will drop in a month or so.

 

[Woomica]

I just ask you not to rush for revisions using loose feats.

Again, I don't remember the context of the feat. I just tell you to leave the cooking to me in the general crt I will drop in a month or so.

understood good luck with that

 

[Avengershows]

also we see something that looks like a nebula and also few moons around the entire space where they fight

We already know that the skies in the Sea of Quanta that look like stars are just backdrops and aren't actual stars. We can't scale this because we don't know the size

 

[Woomica]

We already know that the skies in the Sea of Quanta that look like stars are just backdrops and aren't actual stars. We can't scale this because we don't know the size

I dunno this place looks different from sea but okay i know what you mean

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Actually, considering 4-A itself is getting hammered due to that other CRT I think? Massively FTL+ might be questionable to use.

 

[Woomica]

Actually, considering 4-A itself is getting hammered due to that other CRT I think? Massively FTL+ might be questionable to use.

What do you mean by that

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

What do you mean by that

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

All details are in this Blog Post. Suffice to say, a lot of changes. TL;DR Honkai Cosmology is not 11-D, as the extra dimensions spoken of in-game are string dimensions, not extra large dimensions. Instead, Honkai Cosmology is 6-D at the highest level (the Imaginary Tree). Going down the list...

vsbattles.com

 

[Woomica]

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

All details are in this Blog Post. Suffice to say, a lot of changes. TL;DR Honkai Cosmology is not 11-D, as the extra dimensions spoken of in-game are string dimensions, not extra large dimensions. Instead, Honkai Cosmology is 6-D at the highest level (the Imaginary Tree). Going down the list...

vsbattles.com

8 pages to read ok ill check it out

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

All details are in this Blog Post. Suffice to say, a lot of changes. TL;DR Honkai Cosmology is not 11-D, as the extra dimensions spoken of in-game are string dimensions, not extra large dimensions. Instead, Honkai Cosmology is 6-D at the highest level (the Imaginary Tree). Going down the list...

vsbattles.com

Wasn't this literally debunked by a staff member who blatantly told Solacis that string dimensions aren't seen as "lesser dimensions" in the case of hi3?

 

[Woomica]

Wasn't this literally debunked by a staff member who blatantly told Solacis that string dimensions aren't seen as "lesser dimensions" in the case of hi3?

i am to stupid to understand anything past 5d honkai (otto affecting IMg tree stuff and creating inf possibilites (which is 2A but ok) im gonna read all the stuff again and then give opinions about it

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Wasn't this literally debunked by a staff member who blatantly told Solacis that string dimensions aren't seen as "lesser dimensions" in the case of hi3?

I'm talking about 4-A AP, not Tier 1.

4-A was agreed to be bunk iirc.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

i am to stupid to understand anything past 5d honkai (otto affecting IMg tree stuff and creating inf possibilites (which is 2A but ok) im gonna read all the stuff again and then give opinions about it

Well essentially the argument is that the cosmology of the verse itself is 11D with the IMT and Otto heavily affecting this tier 1 structure is reason enough to debate tier 1 scaling for the high tiers who scale to or above False God. Of course that entire CRT is essentially 75% downplaying the crap out of the verse but you get the point

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I'm talking about 4-A AP, not Tier 1.

4-A was agreed to be bunk iirc.

No yeah I know, I'm just saying why link that if half the stuff in there was proven false. Though tbf ig it's not like we really have much else huh

 

[Woomica]

Well essentially the argument is that the cosmology of the verse itself is 11D with the IMT and Otto heavily affecting this tier 1 structure is reason enough to debate tier 1 scaling for the high tiers who scale to or above False God. Of course that entire CRT is essentially 75% downplaying the crap out of the verse but you get the point

Ah whatever his feat of inf possibilities is 2A bare minimum

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Ah whatever his feat of inf possibilities is 2A bare minimum

Yeah that's heavily excepted by everyone except Solacis who tries to downplay it by saying "it's just Otto talking in riddles as he always does"

 

[Woomica]

Yeah that's heavily excepted by everyone except Solacis who tries to downplay it by saying "it's just Otto talking in riddles as he always does"

I guess the person talking in his chronicles is also riddler

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I guess the person talking in his chronicles is also riddler

You can honestly stretch that narrative as far as you want, that's the sad part about it but well I'm not really trying to start up drama. Tbf tho if we're ever to truly revise the hi3 cosmology we do genuinely need to bring up where our predecessors went wrong and exactly what they got right, Solacis had some interesting takes on the verse for lack of a better term but there were quite a few things he had a pretty good grasp on. So it's a matter of dissecting and picking apart what he did and didn't get right ig? Idk

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Guess we leave most of that to Shiroiyo who's spearheading this

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

No yeah I know, I'm just saying why link that if half the stuff in there was proven false. Though tbf ig it's not like we really have much else huh

The current consensus is either we downgrade the verse to High 6-A since all Tier 4 stuff is bunk, or we use cross scaling via Welt Yang and upscale HI3 from HSR, making the HI3 High 4-C.

Frankly, I'd go with the cross scaling option but several people are against I think.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

For reference, I made a mini compilation of most notable feats for HI3 and HSR

HI3 AP stuff - Context of each feat
HSR AP stuff
HSR Speed stuff

 

[Woomica]

The current consensus is either we downgrade the verse to High 6-A since all Tier 4 stuff is bunk, or we use cross scaling via Welt Yang and upscale HI3 from HSR, making the HI3 High 4-C.

Frankly, I'd go with the cross scaling option but several people are against I think.

??? multi continent for entire hi3??

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

??? multi continent for entire hi3??

Without Tier 4 feats, that's the most they have. I vaguely recall Finality having a Tier 5 feat, but I don't remember what it is specifically, plus nobody scales to Finality.

 

[Woomica]

Without Tier 4 feats, that's the most they have. I vaguely recall Finality having a Tier 5 feat, but I don't remember what it is specifically, plus nobody scales to Finality.

Okay early game tier 6 is fine whatever mid game i dont really know, but any character post ch 28 so kiana durandal kevin hoo elysia mei etc...till the endgame should scale from ottos Feats of creating those timelines for kallen like if thats innaplicable for scaling then i dont know
also no one scales to COCOON of finality kiana but for Herrscher of Finality kiana easy
Mei
Bronya
Kevin
Garuda Hua
Sa
Vita and Seele and possibly Durandal Otto rita elysia but they are powercrept anyway

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Okay early game tier 6 is fine whatever mid game i dont really know, but any character post ch 28 so kiana durandal kevin hoo elysia mei etc...till the endgame should scale from ottos Feats of creating those timelines for kallen like if thats innaplicable for scaling then i dont know
also no one scales to COCOON of finality kiana but for Herrscher of Finality kiana easy
Mei
Bronya
Kevin
Garuda Hua
Sa
Vita and Seele and possibly Durandal Otto rita elysia but they are powercrept anyway

I'm pretty sure it doesn't at all scale to his base stats? Like iirc, he had to access the tree or something in order to pull off the feat.

 

[Shiroiyo]

My cell phone was beeping with nots and I went to my PC.

But as far as I remember, Solacis complained about the 4-B feat the HoV had, he never said anything about the Might of An-Utu's supernova feats or star-destroying feats

I think even in the OP he said 4-A was okay.

 

[Woomica]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't at all scale to his base stats? Like iirc, he had to access the tree or something in order to pull off the feat.

From this video in 13:50 it says that he imbued the worlds wedge with all the False God power (himself) to create infinite possibilites for kallen so it more than likely reffers to otto himself...and if he had to acces the tree then he would have to affect it which is tier 1 then

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I think even in the OP he said 4-A was okay.

I think it was decided later that we weren't gonna use 4-A altogether, something about not scaling to physicals or them not being real?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

From this video in 13:50 it says that he imbued the worlds wedge with all the False God power (himself) to create infinite possibilites for kallen so it more than likely reffers to otto himself...and if he had to acces the tree then he would have to affect it which is tier 1 then

If he could just magically make infinite timelines, then he wouldn't have needed the tree itself.

 

[Woomica]

If he could just magically make infinite timelines, then he wouldn't have needed the tree itself.

...So? He just needed something to use his power and commit the feat...works as affecting the same structure no?

 

[Shiroiyo]

I think it was decided later that we weren't gonna use 4-A altogether, something about not scaling to physicals or them not being real?

He said this in the Star Rail thread a few months ago and then disappeared.

Herrschers scales to their cores, and the fake stars refer to the stars in the Sea of Quanta, our luck is that the feat of creation was not done there (Solacis even adressed this in his upgrade thread). The argument is that apparently (Although I hope this isn't the only piece of evidence, for heaven's sake. CM is treated seriously here and we are going to need 10x more evidence to qualify even for type 3. Being derived from something would not make something conceptual in nature, nor the mention of concept), Herrscher authorities are derived from conceptual manipulation or RW and therefore don't scale. But this depends on ignoring the UES standards and the Creation Page. And so, if you claim that Reality warping being used for creation feats do not scale even with UES, then no one on this site would get 4-A for creating star dimensions.

I took a look at our creation feats page, Requirements/Pocket Reality feats section and:

• There should be evidence or a well detailed explanation that a pocket dimension was created, and not simply an illusion or teleportation to another location.
• There should be some reason to consider the backgrounds stars, not just painted decorations within a throne room or museum.
• Even though there is concrete evidence for pocket reality creations to qualify as an Attack Potency feat; it should not be assumed to scale to physical statistics without some notable scaling reasons. Examples include on screen demonstrations, examples of destruction, or information that the same pool of energy used to create said dimension can translate to the same amount of energy being used for other abilities including but not limited to physical strikes.

Elysia created it. The feat just fits the bill.


Edit: I seriously need to do a blog explaining why the feats in general can scale to physicals.,I have already written a bit about the evidence in the Honkai energy sandbox though.

Edit 2: Apparently, the dimensions being strings was a translation error? lmao. The scan used was this one, while the most recent and reliable translations, such as the one from Abyss LAB, are these ones. I have no idea why the translation is so different

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

The current consensus is either we downgrade the verse to High 6-A since all Tier 4 stuff is bunk, or we use cross scaling via Welt Yang and upscale HI3 from HSR, making the HI3 High 4-C.

Frankly, I'd go with the cross scaling option but several people are against I think.

Yeah I recall that, I think trying to downgrade the verse to 6-A is....sorry for my language but ******* ******** lmao no offense but it really is. Whoever brought that up is just making a fool of themselves, that's literally saying that a half morphed Ziggy performing that high 6-A feat is just the cap of the verse. Ziggy half morphed bro....the dude would get frozen and 0 diffed by just Kevin's literal ice aura so yeah I think it's stupid asf

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

For reference, I made a mini compilation of most notable feats for HI3 and HSR

HI3 AP stuff - Context of each feat
HSR AP stuff
HSR Speed stuff

I'll check em out

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

My cell phone was beeping with nots and I went to my PC.

But as far as I remember, Solacis complained about the 4-B feat the HoV had, he never said anything about the Might of An-Utu's supernova feats or star-destroying feats

I think even in the OP he said 4-A was okay.

Yeah, that's why I'm wondering who brought that up? Maybe he brought it up during an earlier or later point of the thread ig I never bothered reading absolutely everything in there

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

From this video in 13:50 it says that he imbued the worlds wedge with all the False God power (himself) to create infinite possibilites for kallen so it more than likely reffers to otto himself...and if he had to acces the tree then he would have to affect it which is tier 1 then

Yeah it does but the power he used was from the tree itself, as I said earlier though. Literally no one in honkai is supposed to be able to do that. So yes it's tier 1 by heavily affecting it (this was originally brought up by another person named ThanatosX)

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

He said this in the Star Rail thread a few months ago and then disappeared.

Herrschers scales to their cores, and the fake stars refer to the stars in the Sea of Quanta, our luck is that the feat of creation was not done there (Solacis even adressed this in his upgrade thread). The argument is that apparently (Although I hope this isn't the only piece of evidence, for heaven's sake. CM is treated seriously here and we are going to need 10x more evidence to qualify even for type 3. Being derived from something would not make something conceptual in nature, nor the mention of concept), Herrscher authorities are derived from conceptual manipulation or RW and therefore don't scale. But this depends on ignoring the UES standards and the Creation Page. And so, if you claim that Reality warping being used for creation feats do not scale even with UES, then no one on this site would get 4-A for creating star dimensions.

I took a look at our creation feats page, Requirements/Pocket Reality feats section and:

• There should be evidence or a well detailed explanation that a pocket dimension was created, and not simply an illusion or teleportation to another location.
• There should be some reason to consider the backgrounds stars, not just painted decorations within a throne room or museum.
• Even though there is concrete evidence for pocket reality creations to qualify as an Attack Potency feat; it should not be assumed to scale to physical statistics without some notable scaling reasons. Examples include on screen demonstrations, examples of destruction, or information that the same pool of energy used to create said dimension can translate to the same amount of energy being used for other abilities including but not limited to physical strikes.

Elysia created it. The feat just fits the bill.


Edit: I seriously need to do a blog explaining why the feats in general can scale to physicals.,I have already written a bit about the evidence in the Honkai energy sandbox though.

Edit 2: Apparently, the dimensions being strings was a translation error? lmao. The scan used was this one, while the most recent and reliable translations, such as the one from Abyss LAB, are these ones. I have no idea why the translation is so different

Yeah I remember multiple people literally argued & corrected Solacis about the wiki's UES standards that he basically almost completely ignoredand yeah I believe BunBun did mention that the string dimensions were a translations error at one point? I don't remember to well might be wrong but even if they aren't I explicitly do recall some staff member or someone with knowledge on string dimensions completely refuting what Solacis said regardless so....

 

[Woomica]

Yeah it does but the power he used was from the tree itself, as I said earlier though. Literally no one in honkai is supposed to be able to do that. So yes it's tier 1 by heavily affecting it (this was originally brought up by another person named ThanatosX)

So kiana and durandal are also tier 1 for beating him?

 

[Shiroiyo]

Now, to be honest, I understand both sides.

Honkai Impact 3rd here on this wiki has a notorious problem of lack of explanation, either on the pages or in the blogs. The powers even have a decent explanation, but we don't have a cosmology blog, we don't have a blog explaining why Honkai energy scales, this limits people who don't know the verse that well to analyzing things singularly and not analyzing in a perspective of the verse as a whole.

Some notable feats are not translated in any way onto the pages, whether in the hax, range or ap sections. And going down this road of ignoring the feats of the strongest entities in the verse will create the same problem we're supposedly fighting now (low tiers scaling the same as high-tiered characters) which in my opinion is just as bad as leaving everyone in 4-A, something I also disagree with... because after all, this will make our high tier run out of feats and they'll have to scale from calculations of the weaker people (who, by the way, are people who don't scale high in the chain).

Having to rely on another game for scaling because we can't accept some feats is crazy. Especially coming from Welt, as he doesn't even scale that high (but to be honest, the guy is always in a weakened state lol). I understand the case when they are really are wrong and shouldn't be used, but some are just nitpicks or extreme scrutiny being applied that I haven't seen here before.

I'm not even talking about Otto's btw, I swear things will make more sense in a while.

 

[Woomica]

Now, to be honest, I understand both sides.

Honkai Impact 3rd here on this wiki has a notorious problem of lack of explanation, either on the pages or in the blogs. The powers even have a decent explanation, but we don't have a cosmology blog, we don't have a blog explaining why Honkai energy scales, this limits people who don't know the verse that well to analyzing things singularly and not analyzing in a perspective of the verse as a whole.

Some notable feats are not translated in any way onto the pages, whether in the hax, range or ap sections. And going down this road of ignoring the feats of the strongest entities in the verse will create the same problem we're supposedly fighting now (low tiers scaling the same as high-tiered characters) which in my opinion is just as bad as leaving everyone in 4-A, something I also disagree with... because after all, this will make our high tier run out of feats and they'll have to scale from calculations of the weaker people (who, by the way, are people who don't scale high in the chain).

Having to rely on another game for scaling because we can't accept some feats is crazy. Especially coming from Welt, as he doesn't even scale that high (but to be honest, the guy is always in a weakened state lol).

I'm not even talking about Otto's btw, I swear things will make more sense in a while.

Damn...didnt know the scaling is that messy but okay im gonna leave that to you (i hope you upscale the game tho)

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

So kiana and durandal are also tier 1 for beating him?

More or less yeah, granted tbf they didn't beat him but they held their own against him. So an argument can be made, the false god Otto feat is more so for bringing the verse to tier 1 and for scaling characters above him like Eos Trio, Kevin etc

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Now, to be honest, I understand both sides.

Honkai Impact 3rd here on this wiki has a notorious problem of lack of explanation, either on the pages or in the blogs. The powers even have a decent explanation, but we don't have a cosmology blog, we don't have a blog explaining why Honkai energy scales, this limits people who don't know the verse that well to analyzing things singularly and not analyzing in a perspective of the verse as a whole.

Some notable feats are not translated in any way onto the pages, whether in the hax, range or ap sections. And going down this road of ignoring the feats of the strongest entities in the verse will create the same problem we're supposedly fighting now (low tiers scaling the same as high-tiered characters) which in my opinion is just as bad as leaving everyone in 4-A, something I also disagree with... because after all, this will make our high tier run out of feats and they'll have to scale from calculations of the weaker people (who, by the way, are people who don't scale high in the chain).

Having to rely on another game for scaling because we can't accept some feats is crazy. Especially coming from Welt, as he doesn't even scale that high (but to be honest, the guy is always in a weakened state lol). I understand the case when they are really are wrong and shouldn't be used, but some are just nitpicks or extreme scrutiny being applied that I haven't seen here before.

I'm not even talking about Otto's btw, I swear things will make more sense in a while.

Dude I've literally talked about this with BunBun recently lol, the game isn't even really all that confusing. The people on the wiki just either half the time skip through the story & never really read it in it's entirety or they get lazy with explanations & scans ig? Cuz it's genuinely not as ambiguous as some people on the wiki make it seem hopefully if BuBun manages to come around and help us all work on this we can genuinely make this better