Homestuck AP Downgrades

[LordXcano]

@Ant Thanks. Sorry.

@Matt 2 things:

1. I don't know why you continue to post here when you already admitted that you're so heavily biased that you will never change your opinion. That hurt your credibility with this topic enough, but there's no point in arguing with someone if they refuse to change since the point of debate is to convince the other person.

2. You keep equating "scale" with "series' plot" for some reason, even though the two are completely separate from each other. But since you keep doing this, why haven't you addressed how Earth-sized planets contradict the plot?

Jade's Dreambot never leaves the island when she flies across the entirety of Prospit even though it copies her movements 1 for 1, which would be not only a direct comparison to Earth but also something that the plot actually adresses.

How do you explain Prospit fitting inside of Jade's island? I know Azzy said it "flew far enough to take a picture of a meteor" (which it didn't) but even if it did that still makes Prospit smaller than the Earth's circumference since the distance between the Pacific to Texas notably isn't larger than the Earth-Moon system.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Xcano

You don't get to keep accusing me of being heavily biased while going "I will ignore your arguments" and also telling me to stop arguing against you. Seems a tad contradictory, and also quite rude.

The scale and the plot are not separate. My arguments are simple. Your scaling contradicts the plot, and I show you why it does. That's it, all there is too it. It's a simple matter.

You guys are putting Pixel Scaling over the plot, which is something that shouldn't be done. There's no other argument in here. The pixel scaling is flawed and incorrent with the plot, I don't care how many examples you can pull, they will all be wrong. Quantity of flaws does not make said flaws correct.

Azathoth has already explained this situation.

Edit:

I'm also surprised you outright pushed Antvasima away from the thread based on false accusations. He said he agreed with me and Azathoth, and you said he was appealing to authority.

When I say I agree with Azathoth, you tell me I'm biased and I should shut up.

What is unbiased, then. Agreeing with you? Are you so bent on getting this through you have to falsely accuse others and ignore their arguments?

That's called Ad-Hominen.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@AMM

I'm not ignoring pixel scaling or saying it shouldn't be used.

I'm saying it shouldn't be used when it contradicts the plot.

Why is this such a hard concept to understand?

 

[LordXcano]

@Matt I'm going to explain my rationale throughout this whole thread very calmly and clearly, as you seem to be extrapolating and assuming a lot of things.

"You don't get to keep accusing me of being heavily biased while going "I will ignore your arguments" and also telling me to stop arguing against you. Seems a tad contradictory, and also quite rude."

I'm going to copy a few of your posts (although not all as that would be spam) to explain why I felt the need to start ignoring you for that brief time.

"2 Kilometer planets are incredibly ridiculous. It's far likelier that the author simply didn't take the time to properly scale things, and that you are overthinking."

"Not comparable. Your argument comes from assuming that the author intended the planets to be tiny and city sized, which there is no evidence of."

"Actually, those "evidences" are countered by all the evidence Azathoth has shown that the planets are not meant to be tiny."

"I did read the post. And I did read the giant comment section. And I concluded that your evidence and arguments are unsufficient."

Do you see the problem here? Aside from the post "Not comparable" came from, you didn't do much to actually adress my points. You either just said I was wrong or that Azzy disproved me, without saying why Azzy disproved me. It was getting pretty tiring, as I can't really respond to a post if I don't know what your points actually are.

To adress the issue of "rudeness" when you start out the thread calling my assertions ridiculous and telling me that I'm "overthinking" you aren't setting the bar for civilty very high.

"The scale and the plot are not separate. My arguments are simple. Your scaling contradicts the plot, and I show you why it does. That's it, all there is too it. It's a simple matter."

This is just continuing upon the above problem. Yes, I know your arguments. The meteor, the minor planets, all that. We've cycled through these many many times and haven't actually gained any ground.

Even in this very comment you continue on the issue above, you don't explain why scale and plot aren't separate. You just say they are. How am I supposed to respond to a post that doesn't make any points, it just insists that it does?

"Azathoth has already explained this situation."

Here you do it again. You say Azzy disproved me, without saying how. Are you starting to get the picture? You keep saying things as if they are points without actually backing them up with any content.

One can't have a debate about religion if only one person holds the Bible and doesn't explain why or where it says certain things, only insisting that it does.

"I'm also surprised you outright pushed Antvasima away from the thread based on false accusations. He said he agreed with me and Azathoth, and you said he was appealing to authority."

I understand Azathoth is a busy person, so he may very well have deeper reasoning to agree with you. But here was our entire conversation:

"Since Azathoth seems to disagree with this, I agree with Matthew and Promestein. Also, given the former's personal situation, we might have to wait until he gets the time to respond again."

"Well, he is a bureaucrat, and I know him to be highly knowledgeable about Homestuck, so I generally go along with what he considers appropriate."

He outright says he agreed simply because Azzy is knowledgeable and a bureaucrat. Now if he had deeper reasoning I'm sorry, in fact I did apologize to him. But with what I was presented it didn't seem like he was agreeing for any more reason than Azzy happened to be the one to say it.

"When I say I agree with Azathoth, you tell me I'm biased and I should shut up."

Firstly, I never told you to shut up. And I'm not accusing you of bias, you said it yourself.

"At this point, Xcano, there is nothing you can say that would convince me, Azathoth has been reasonable and factual throughout."

You outright stated that no matter how factual my points are, or how much evidence I have, you will disagree with me simply because I'm me. This is the very definition of bias.

"What is unbiased, then. Agreeing with you? Are you so bent on getting this through you have to falsely accuse others and ignore their arguments?"

No, agreeing with me just because I said so is also biased. And as I said above, it was hardly a false accusation, more just a response to something you said about yourself.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You cherry picked my comments and ignored all my arguments to say I'm wrong and dishonest.

That's dishonest.

I recommend you actually read my arguments and Azathoth's. You are the one ignoring them and focusing on what fits a narrative that I'm biased.

I said I wouldn't agree with you because your arguments are wrong. But you twist my words into saying I'm biased. I have repeteaded the meteor argument because it overrules all of yours, something you can't accept.

I'm seriously offended that of an 80+ Post thread, you'd cherry pick a handful of lines to push a narrative of you being the only reasonable and logical person on this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

I would appreciate if everybody would please take a few moment calm down, listen to relaxing music, and similar.

It is important to keep this conversation polite, respectful, and with the perspective that it is not remotely the kind of existential issue that our real world politics are full with right now.

It is just a disagreement about whether a fiction should be gauged by measurements or author intentions, and not the end of the world if somebody does not get his or her way here.

In fact, it is entirely possible that there is no good answer for this type of situation, and we cannot have several productive staff members start to severely dislike each other because of it.

Is it possible to find some sort of compromise solution?

Thanks in advance for your help and cooperation.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I was preparing a gigantic reply to LordXcano that would probably do nothing but to add salt to injury, and increase the anger in this thread.

You are probably right, Antvasima.

Forgive me if I've been disrespectul, or angry, or impatient.

I still wholy disagree with LordXcano on this thread, but I would rather the discussion remain peaceful than to be wasted on violence, accusations and sarcasm.