Higurashi Kotohogushi and how it impacts 07th expansion

[Dr3amcaster]

Intrdoction
The purpose of this post is to explain the cosmology of Kotohogushi, and it´s impact on the 07th expansion verse since it´s not featured in our cosmology blog and only brought up once in a missrepresenting way. It will also clear up the misconceptions about the fifth dimension and how Hanyuus Low 1-C key, is affected by this.

The fifth dimension
In the world of Kotohogushi all beings exist not only in three spatial dimensions and one temporal dimension, but also a fifth dimension , this dimension works similar to how modal dimensions in Extended Modal Realism work. The first three dimensions, which are spatial dimensions holds the directions in which all beings can move all material objects exist in it. The fourth dimension holds the states in which all third dimensional matter was and is, this is time, which Kotohogushi calls a fourth dimensional concept. Than there is the fifth dimension which is neither a spatial nor a temporal dimension instead it´s what is called a modal dimension in EMR, it holds all the possible states of the fourth dimension or time with possibilities being called a fifth dimensional concept. The fifth dimension holds what we call parallel worlds and the ryuun are a possible existence in that dimension. So with that we have established how the fifth dimension works and that it clearly isn´t a spatial dimension. However to understand the scaling of the fifth dimension we have to explain some other stuff first.

The ryuun and density shifting
This is where we get into Hanyuu´s Low 1- C key and what the ryuun dimension is, as has been made clear Hanyuu is from a different dimension that exists above the human world. Now her profile suggests that she this is the fifth dimension but as the learned in the previous section are the ryuun just another possibility in the fifth dimension. So from this we know that two types of dimensions, the 1_5 dimension which describe your state of being and the higher dimensions, it should be noted that beings from these higher dimensions seem omnipotent in comparision with lower dimensions and any difference in speed within one dimension is less significant than the difference between dimensions. The ryuun reached this dimension via using a technique called "phase transition", it is built on the phenomenon that everything is made of particles and electric fields to which everything has a particular state of being via everything ultimately being an abstraction of information. This information is also a reference to everything existing in different vibratory states of matter, mind and energy hence why the ability of reconstructing ones body to another layer or dimension is called phase transition. This same process also takes advantage of mind and matter being one and adjusting the physical state of your body will require your individuality (mind) itself to separate and adapt to the density of other layers, as this is consistent with how it is also a prime function of quantum mechanics where waves lead to higher dimensions. So these higher dimensions the ryuun travel to are very different from the previous dimensions. This concept also revolves around the fifth dimension (again used distinct from spatial dimensions) as infinite levels of vibratory states of matter and mind in which you can move through these levels by changing your charge and density. To clarify these levels are used interchangebly with spatial dimensions as levels are used to refer to dimensions from for example string theory.

To elaborate what this would actually mean, we have established that the fifth dimension allows beings to exist in different densities allowing them to reach higher spatial dimensions which are also regarded as possible states as all possiblities are within the fifth dimension. So possible states of matter and mind or densities are within the fifth dimension since it houses all possible states and is the underlying electromagnetic field which allows for these levels in the first place. There should be an infinite amount of these levels since for one the grantchronicles link directly suggests the existence of infinite levels but also all possible states are within the fifth dimension with these higher states being or densities existing as possible states with the verse working of MWI and there being infinite states/possible versions of everything, there would also be infinite levels or possible states in which this information can exist in the fifth dimension.

Conclusion
The fifth dimension would have infinite levels which equate to higher dimensions meaning it would be High 1-B, the tiering for hanyuus Low 1-C key doesn´t change but we should remove the fifth dimensional wall part and only say that she resides in a higher dimension than the human world. This would obviously mean that the ftagment in which Kotohogushi takes place would be High 1B as well obviously changing our rating for most characters in the verse however to discuss excact details isn´t really purpose of this post and that´s pretty much it.

 

[Darksmash]

The 5th dimension being in relation to parallel universes and possibilities is nothing new in fiction. The fact that it pertains to parallel universes by default it's not any different from the spatial dimensions we consider. None of this proves high 1-B.

Also, even ignoring that merely being called a "dimension higher than the human world" does not mean a transcendence. None of what you said has any connection to spatial dimensions. Also, even the website you linked proves that these different vibrational densities do not transcend each other in the sense it is required for our tiering system(Like the same distance units being used to measure velocities in different densities). Not to mention that we don't use real life concepts in conjunction with tiering fiction in the first place.

Edit: I was just told that the website you linked has no connection to any real concept anyway and is merely just a tie in website for twin peaks worldbuilding. Lmao.

 

[sanicspood]

bro used the smallest font quality in existence

 

[Tarang123]

Gonna have to disagree for similar reasons to what Darksmash has stated above. Nothing you've shown really suggests anything other than Low 1C, and you'd have to actually prove that these qualities apply to the verse's cosmology, which you haven't done.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Likewise I’m the one who made this meta, I disagree with it being used genuinely since I explicitly made it for dishonest purposes. The context from the arc is also very important. This technology is the called the Lynose, and the ryuun clan developed it for the purpose of inter-dimensional travel, however it’s because they existed in a different state of molecular biology that in order to progress with a wide scale immigration of their race, they had to transmute their mental and physical being (which were made of particles and a fixed mass) into one to accommodate the new dimension, that being the human world of course.

 

[Darksmash]

Likewise I’m the one who made this meta, I disagree with it being used genuinely since I explicitly made it for dishonest purposes. The context from the arc is also very important. This technology is the called the Lynose, and the ryuun clan developed it for the purpose of inter-dimensional travel, however it’s because they existed in a different state of molecular biology that in order to progress with a wide scale immigration of their race, they had to transmute their mental and physical being (which were made of particles and a fixed mass) into one to accommodate the new dimension, that being the human world of course.

Should be careful with joke scalings as you never know when someone with low media literacy will show up and take it seriously lmao.

 

[Ovy7]

Using a fake website from an american tv-series as proof kinda discredits the entire thing for me, lmfao

Also, the Kotohogushi scans barely say anything of what you say they do

 

[Tarang123]

This should be closed. Not only does this not say anything even hinting at the conclusions reached, but it's going to the point of linking websites that are part of other fictional verses lmfao.

 

[LuciferX]

Using a fake website from an american tv-series as proof kinda discredits the entire thing for me, lmfao

Also, the Kotohogushi scans barely say anything of what you say they do

Does Hanyuu's origin in kotohogushi arc even canon?

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Does Hanyuu's origin in kotohogushi arc even canon?

It is. It's just a prologue arc made after the series.

 

[LuciferX]

It is. It's just a prologue arc made after the series.

Ryuun's are comparable to humans iirc. If Hanyuu is one of them, doesn't that debunk Hanyuu being Low 1-C?

 

[Darksmash]

Ryuun's are comparable to humans iirc. If Hanyuu is one of them, doesn't that debunk Hanyuu being Low 1-C?

Yeah it should. There is no information about this "5th dimension" and how it works and the showings contradict any kind of infinite superiority afaik unless there is some specific context defending that.

 

[LuciferX]

Yeah it should. There is no information about this "5th dimension" and how it works and the showings contradict any kind of infinite superiority afaik unless there is some specific context defending that.

My confusion is, how she became super powerful after the sacrifice in festival? Even if she ascended to a witch during that era, she literary unabled to interact with physical world. only appeared in ghost form. Why did she beacome powerless sometimes?
I found a quote rika furude asking whether hanyu a 5D being and she confirmed it. It should at least enough to remove 1-B key in both hanyu and game masters in Umineko.

 

[LuciferX]

Different dimension exist about human world.

I translated that scan using DeepL translator but it doesn't say it exist above human world though, only crossed a dimensional wall and moved into earth.

秋
ハィ=リューン・
イェアソムール・ジェダ
CV:堀江由衣
五次元の壁を越えて現在の世界に移
り住むようになった 「リューンの
民」の入植状況を見守り、 先住民へ
の危害など違反行為を行う者に対し
て制裁することを任務とする 「監視
者(ジェダ)」のひとり

Autumn
Hy-Lyun.
Yeasomur Jeda
CV: Yui Horie
She has crossed the five dimensional barrier and moved into the world of the present.
The "people of Ryun" have moved across the five dimensional wall to live in the present world.
She is responsible for monitoring the settlement of the "people of Ryun," who have crossed the fifth dimensional barrier and come to live in the present world.
and sanction those who violate the law, such as harming the indigenous peoples.
The mission of the "Jedha" is to monitor the settlements of the
Jedha, one of the "watchers" whose duty it is to monitor the settlement of the.

 

[Ovy7]

Ryuun's are comparable to humans iirc. If Hanyuu is one of them, doesn't that debunk Hanyuu being Low 1-C?

Why would it? The comparison to humans is made from a historical/evolutionary standpoint, not a lvl of existence one.

My confusion is, how she became super powerful after the sacrifice in festival?

It's not explained, and likely would never be.

Even if she ascended to a witch during that era, she literary unabled to interact with physical world. only appeared in ghost form. Why did she beacome powerless sometimes?

Sorry to ask, but have you read the series? Not asking this to be mean, but because through the series it becomes very clear that the state of mind of a Meta Being would also greatly affects their power. Hanyuu was full depression mode for all of her Meta existence, which affected her powers. Hell, in the final chapter, she could only send Rika 2 weeks before the Festival, unlike how she before could send her years into the past, because Hanyuu basically gave up.

Funny enough, in Higurashi Sotsu we finally see a Hanyuu with determination, and she's able to fight a being that's basically Featherine (tho, both of them are Featherine... kinda).

I found a quote rika furude asking whether hanyu a 5D being and she confirmed it.

Scans? Cause I don't remember such a quote ever existing.

It should at least enough to remove 1-B key in both hanyu and game masters in Umineko.

The tiers of the Meta Beings aren't tied to Haynuu's past.

I translated that scan using DeepL translator but it doesn't say it exist above human world though, only crossed a dimensional wall and moved into earth.

This quote you are likely referring to:

彼女が、人の世よりはるかに高い次元から降臨された神々しい存在なのか。

Is she a divine existence descended from a far higher dimension than the person world.

is from the visual novel, when Rika talks about Hanyuu's past 1000 years ago in Hinamizawa, and not from her CV from Kotohogushi-hen.

 

[LuciferX]

Why would it? The comparison to humans is made from a historical/evolutionary standpoint, not a lvl of existence one.

Did Hanyu had her power when she was a ryuun? That's what I wanted to know.

it's not explained, and likely would never be.

Well.

Sorry to ask, but have you read the series? Not asking this to be mean, but because through the series it becomes very clear that the state of mind of a Meta Being would also greatly affects their power. Hanyuu was full depression mode for all of her Meta existence, which affected her powers. Hell, in the final chapter, she could only send Rika 2 weeks before the Festival, unlike how she before could send her years into the past, because Hanyuu basically gave up.

My bad. so everything is because of depression. I thought so but..

Funny enough, in Higurashi Sotsu we finally see a Hanyuu with determination, and she's able to fight a being that's basically Featherine (tho, both of them are Featherine... kinda).

You meant her damaging Eua's horn with a sword that can kill loopers? City block level fight tbh.

Scans? Cause I don't remember such a quote ever existing.

Riku: "I've been thinking of asking this for a while now. Hanyuu, you said you came from a different world... or rather, a place in a different dimension, right?"

Hanyuu: "Yes, that's right. We crossed the so-called fifth-dimensional barrier and came to this world."

When Riku had asked me where I came from, I thought it might be somewhat difficult to explain credibly, but I told him the truth.

Perhaps I could have said that I belonged to the kindred of the stars, located beyond the sky in a place called outer space, but somehow I hesitated to do so.

After all, strictly speaking, I too was a 'human' from this planet.

Certainly, my process of arriving here, my knowledge and abilities... and most of all, my looks were strange, but I could feasibly be called a human.

Riku: "...I don't really get it. What exactly is the fifth dimension?"

Hanyuu: "Let's see. ...For instance, let's say this pebble is the world."

Saying this, I picked up a small pebble from near my feet and threw it with a flick of my wrist.

The pebble rolled across the ground some distance away, curved to the left, hit a tree and stopped.

Hanyuu: "When that pebble moved from my hand to that spot, that's the concept of the fourth dimension. The past, when it was in my hand. The present, when it's lying on the ground. And the future, when I'll go and pick it up again..."

Riku: "I see."

Hanyuu: "Now, that pebble rolled to the left earlier, but maybe there was a case where it would have rolled to the right due to various different factors. Or a case where it rolled straight ahead."

Hanyuu: "And I don't think there's much likelihood of this, but it could even have kept rolling all the way through the garden and reached the shrine grounds. ...Those are possibilities. That's the concept of the fifth dimension."

The first three dimensions define the structure of all objects... in other words, space.

The fourth dimension defines time, denoting the transitions of those objects.

And the fifth dimension defines possibilities in the states of those objects...

That dimension divides what are known as parallel worlds.

Riku: "...So in other words, you're a person of possibilities, Hanyuu?"

Hanyuu: "You're quite right. When the humans living in this world came to a certain junction in their process of evolution, we were born by turning right where you went left."

...For example, humans evolved from monkeys, and lost their tails in the process.

Then they lost their body hair, and changed from quadrupedal to bipedal.

But perhaps you could also say that the monkeys they originated from had lost the horns they once sported during their evolution.

Our ancestors didn't lose their horns at that point.

And by evolving greater physical strength and mental precision than the people of this world, our civilisation had developed, flourished... and declined sooner than theirs.

https://whentheycry.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Cheironyx/Hanyuu's_origins_etc_(Kotohogushi-hen_excerpts)

is from the visual novel, when Rika talks about Hanyuu's past 1000 years ago in Hinamizawa, and not from her CV from Kotohogushi-hen.

Which visual novel?

 

[LuciferX]

Funny enough, in Higurashi Sotsu we finally see a Hanyuu with determination, and she's able to fight a being that's basically Featherine (tho, both of them are Featherine... kinda).

Eua's isn't featherine. Ryuikishi already said it in an interview. btw, Higurashi is just a fanfic written by Akasha like Umineko imao. It's all useless!

 

[Potemkat]

Eua's isn't featherine. Ryuikishi already said it in an interview. btw, Higurashi is just a fanfic written by Akasha like Umineko imao. It's all useless!

Ryushiki left things a bit ambiguous. It might be the same difference as Featherine and Hachijo or Featherine and past Featherine.

 

[Ovy7]

Did Hanyu had her power when she was a ryuun? That's what I wanted to know.

What do you mean by "powers", exactly? If you mean the Meta Being/Witch powers, then no, she didn't had them.

You meant her damaging Eua's horn with a sword that can kill loopers? City block level fight tbh.

And escaping her seals. Honestly, putting any fight against her is a feat considering how Lambda's own fight went. . .

snip

That's. . . not Hanyuu talking with Rika as you claimed, but Jeda/Hanyuu talking with Riku, a completely different character (that was alive 1000 years before Rika was even born). And their discussion is about her Ryuun stuff, plus this entire thing is already the main discussion of this thread so I genuinely don't know what you wanted to say about this. I think you are confusing stuff.

Which visual novel?

Higurashi Ch8

 

[LuciferX]

What do you mean by "powers", exactly? If you mean the Meta Being/Witch powers, then no, she didn't had them.

Ok.

That's. . . not Hanyuu talking with Rika as you claimed, but Jeda/Hanyuu talking with Riku, a completely different character (that was alive 1000 years before Rika was even born). And their discussion is about her Ryuun stuff, plus this entire thing is already the main discussion of this thread so I genuinely don't know what you wanted to say about this. I think you are confusing stuff.

Whatever. I just wanted to show Hanyuu described her as a fifth dimensional being and there is no evidence her meta powers given after sacrificing herself in watanagashi festival. If that's true she would be Low 1-C. 1-B seems too much.

Higurashi Ch8

Ok.

 

[Ovy7]

Whatever. I just wanted to show Hanyuu described her as a fifth dimensional being and there is no evidence her meta powers given after sacrificing herself in watanagashi festival. If that's true she would be Low 1-C. 1-B seems too much.

. . . but that's a completely different Hanyuu. You are greatly confusing the versions of the character, ma dude.

 

[Duragoji123]

While I personally agree with the cosmology of the Ningen Domain reaching High 1-B, I don't think this is correct for reasons stated above. So uh, yeah
Disagree FRA

 

[LuciferX]

. . . but that's a completely different Hanyuu. You are greatly confusing the versions of the character, ma dude.

So Hanyu as a ryun didn't posses meta world powers?

 

[Ovy7]

So Hanyu as a ryun didn't posses meta world powers?

No, that's pretty much what I said here:

What do you mean by "powers", exactly? If you mean the Meta Being/Witch powers, then no, she didn't had them.

 

[LuciferX]

No, that's pretty much what I said here:

Evidence? When she was killed by her daughter or whatever, I guess she used that sword which could kill loopers, so it kinds shows she had meta powers. same sword used against Eua iirc.

 

[Ovy7]

Evidence? When she was killed by her daughter or whatever, I guess she used that sword which could kill loopers, so it kinds shows she had meta powers. same sword used against Eua iirc.

How do you want me to post evidence of abilities she never used and never had in the first place? Nothing in her backstory arc shows or even implies any relation to the Meta World. Stop making baseless arguments about stuff you have clearly never even read.

And about the sword thing, the entire looper stuff is new, only introduced more than a year ago in Higurashi Sotsu, and was never talked about before in any other Higurashi media, including Hanyuu's backstory chapter. Hell, in that chapter the sword was just Hanyuu's katana that had an artificial intelligence in it that allowed it to change its form from a simple katana to the 3 branch sword, and not some uber-powerful artifact that turned a human into a pseudo Witch giving them abilities like flight or Kakera jumping as it does in Gou/Sotsu. What I'm saying is that how the sword currently is it's pretty much a retcon done by Ryukishi to something introduced 12 years ago in a console arc that he didn't even write.

 

[LuciferX]

How do you want me to post evidence of abilities she never used and never had in the first place? Nothing in her backstory arc shows or even implies any relation to the Meta World. Stop making baseless arguments about stuff you have clearly never even read.

But above conversation explicity showed Hanyu is a fifth dimensional being. I don't have any idea how it affect tiering tho.

And about the sword thing, the entire looper stuff is new, only introduced more than a year ago in Higurashi Sotsu, and was never talked about before in any other Higurashi media, including Hanyuu's backstory chapter. Hell, in that chapter the sword was just Hanyuu's katana that had an artificial intelligence in it that allowed it to change its form from a simple katana to the 3 branch sword, and not some uber-powerful artifact that turned a human into a pseudo Witch giving them abilities like flight or Kakera jumping as it does in Gou/Sotsu. What I'm saying is that how the sword currently is it's pretty much a retcon done by Ryukishi to something introduced 12 years ago in a console arc that he didn't even write.

RETCON? maybe.