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High School D×D Discussion Thread #3

Hmm, yeah that makes sense. Akeno's summons are also stronger than I expected.

Also, did Indra really say Pseudo DxD is troublesome? From what I could gather while skimming through the material, he didn't say anything like this.
 
I only found Ddraig saying the "troublesome/problematic" talk. That seems to be the same thing Vergil mentioned, that opponents of Indra's level would be troublesome even for Ddraig. Issei seemd to think that prevailing against someone like that would heavily depend on how well he can coordinate and work together with Ddraig.
 
Err, I normally would be all up for such an epic battle but I hope we don't get Indra vs Ise and Ddraig. The way I'm looking at it, Ishibumi has not written an extensive on-panel fight for Ddraig so far because he's saving it for a potential match with Albion in the tournament, which I would very much prefer to see. This is the best way I can reason someone of Ddraig's hype and stature not getting a detailed on-panel fight since his resurrection. Just came to my mind since Ishibumi didn't detail Crom vs Ddraig.

I'm of the opinion that both Ise and Vali will reach the final. I feel like Ishibumi has been dropping several hints to allude to this since V21 when Vali said he wants Ise to get his own team so their teams can fight against each other. It's true that it doesn't have to be in this tournament, but it really looks like the perfect stage for me. There are minor hints that can be dismissed as weak points, but when you put everything together it starts to make sense.

Although even if Ise and Vali both reach the final, I do wonder what Ishibumi would do from there. Azazel said there has to be a winner and since we know he's going to die, I'm sure Ishibumi would want Azazel to see the victor before his death. But I personally want a draw... Who do you think will make the final btw?
 
I am still very against Issei (and Vali in a lesser manner) reaching the finals of the tournament. While DxD seems to be heading in that direction, I heavily dislike the narrative in which the main character is prevailing over pretty much everyone short of three characters (Ophis, Great Red and Shiva) in a measly time frame of a little over a year. It really makes me feel the whole world is being undermined to further increase Issei's stature in pretty much all regards, which is not at all suited to my tastes.

I do believe by logically following what has went on that Issei vs Vali will be the finals of the tournament, but the outcome I would wish for is Issei losing in the semi-finals against Indra and then Indra defeating Vali in the finals. I also wouldn't mind Vali winning the tournament as much as I would mind Issei reaching the finals.

Another problem I have with an Issei vs Vali final is that Issei is in the process of acquiring AxA, and I have no idea what kind of thing Vali could do to catch up without it being a complete asspull or a handout.
 
There's something in Volume 3 implying it affected Kokabiel's speed, though that's all I remember concerning that area.

He tried to attack Albion with a spear of light and a sword of light, but Hakuryuukou swung his arm to the side and vaporised them. While Kokabiel was having a hard time fighting, his powers were getting halved.

[Divide!]

After a few sounds, Kokabiel's movement fell so low that even I could take him on with ease. Albion sighed.

@Jester

Indeed, such things are common in supernatural fighting series and we fans can't do anything about it. I'll say that I don't always mind if things go in that direction though, but it does make me annoyed sometimes which is a part of why I prefer reading fictional series without supernatural elements. Well, each to their own.

Talking about that match, didn't Indra say he could use other myths against Ise or something like that? I wonder what that means. It's very possible that Vali will beat Ise, I'm not sure what to think of that one but I don't mind either way.

I'm a fan of Indra but he shouldn't win the tournament, he plans to ask for a war with Shiva which is not advisable taking into account the massive upcoming ExE saga. That's quite selfish of him now that I think about it lol. Any such war would severely damage the battle potential of the DxD world. Even now, Ishibumi has said the current battle preparations are insufficient for ExE. Imagine how it'd be after such a catastrophic battle. I'd much prefer if someone like Ruval wins, I'm interested in seeing what Magnus' wish would be.

Yes, as of now we can honestly expect an asspull for Vali to match AxA Issei. Though the final should be in like Volume 8 except Ishibumi rushes things so there's still time.

As for the other matches, I'm now seriously hoping Aten is around and will fight against Typhon, along with Bennu vs Apollon. Also, I'm thinking Angra Mainyu will be the main antagonist for Volume 5.
 
Indra litteraly say in Volume 25:

akra then bluntly said

"Huh, the reason is simple, you know? —When we get matched up in the main stage, it won't be enough with just your black armor, it's just too boring. If we're going to do it, I want to fight against you when you're serious, and when you're at your best, without feeling any burden. In order to accomplish that, I will even use myths if I have to."

And after that again Vol.25 but New Life after he knew about Ddraig manefistation:

Your current condition will serve you alright in the preliminaries. —However, you might get matched with me in the main tournament, and when that happens, you won't be able to do anything in that condition, you know?


Lol Rosswiesse ALWAYS been better than Akeno and Rias in terms of everything. Attack Power, Speed, Defence, Magic and so on. It would be VERY strange if she was weaker with gods weapon. And she could match right hand of Dragon King class Youkai + one more Oni like this + Akeno herself.


I wonder how Ise team get stronger now to match Indra. The team of this battle God is really strong. 5 strong Gods + Indra (who is stronger than Heavenly Dragons). Even if Ise+Ddraig could match Indra in theory how rest of team deal with 5 powerfull gods. Even with Grafia they won't be able to do anything.
 
Well yeah, Ise vs Indra is basically confirmed.

She did have Elmenhilde's help against Ibaraki and Ura. From what I remember, both of them swatted her magical attack away and then Elmen stepped in. She's quite strong with Ise and Ravel's blood. She's > Mirana's large attack (almost Cadre-class) > Base Rose.

Also, I'm not sure Rose has always been above Akeno in attack power. We can't be too sure. By V10, she definitely has better feats but if we look at it from V14 onwards, Akeno can seriously damage Grendel and erase his fireball. Rose's magic arrows did only minor damage to Grendel, but his magic resistance was buffed by the Holy Grail so we can't make a perfect comparison. If we look at the fight, Rose had to increase her magical output with the wand to match the lightning dragons, so I doubt she could match Akeno's full power in base. But yeah, she's above in defense. And I'm sure Rose without Mistelteinn can block Akeno's attacks since Le Fay could do so. Then again, Akeno did get stronger than she was in the match against Vali.

Ddraig won't fight Indra extensively, I think. It's up to True DxD or AxA Ise. Ddraig should fight against some of the Four Heavenly Kings. Since he beat Typhon and Apollon, he should be capable of taking at least three of them except they have cheat abilities. Xenovia can hold off one of them with Excalibur's scabbard, but she could need help. Since Grayfia is not available, Ingvild might be ready by that time and her sea dragon is already above Maou-class. So, she and the rest of Ise's team should just hold back Arjuna somehow until Indra gets retired. It's doable, but they're at a disadvantage.
 
What's preventing Issei from absorbing breast power from every single female in his team and then one shot Indra?

None of you talked about this yet...
 
Indra could, like, dodge. If Vidar could dodge an Infinity Blaster + Longinus Smasher combo at point-blank then I don't see how Indra could not dodge Nyuutron, lol.

I doubt Nyuutron can use several females at once, and Issei would probably die of an aneurysm if he had to make everyone in his team flat-chested, even if for a day or so only.
 
Well, I honestly hope that Issei will fight Indra in a pure 1v1 and then Indra, like, acknowledge him or something and retire to see Issei further in the tournament or something along those lines.

Plus I am sure we will get a good feat if that were the case.
 
I wonder, how would you guys rank Vali Team in terms of power? Kuroka should be stronger than Tomita now that she's manifested two tails.

@GDS

At this stage where the characters are confirmed to be capable of destroying mountains and islands, the next step would be country wide damage. If the Rating Game field is as big as a country, I can hope. They should make something as vast as Ajuka's dimension.

Or if they vaporize particularly large mountains.
 
@BFF

Bikuo at this point should be at least around Ultimate Class Devil, same with Kuroka, Arthur should be at least Maou Class, Shaa Wujing and Zhu Bajie, on the other hand, should be also Ultimate Class likely above tho. Vali and Fenrir are the real powerhouse of the team tho with both of them being around HD Class.

There is Australia Size arena, right? I just hope they show us something like cracking the whole continent or better yet busting the whole arena.
 
I think Sha Wujing would be around High-class. I'm just judging that based on the match with Lint. I don't think Lint is above High-class right now, she doesn't seem that strong. And it looks like she got stomped by Ouryuu in Shin DxD 2, although I heard she wasn't at full power cause she was damaged by Roygun's Crack. But they could be Ultimate-class, let's see.

Yeah, it'd be so good if they bust a country sized area or something. Although they shouldn't destroy everything since there are spectators lol.
 
@BFF

The arena is simply there for the show. The actual fight takes place in the artificial world. So there is no problem even if the combatant actually destroy the said artificial world.

Well, I remember that the Sha Wujing can tank Akeno's lighting easily so dura. wise he is certainly up there.
 
True, and they can also reinforce it.

That's Zhu Bajie. And yeah, he should be decently strong. Akeno chose to dodge his fireball but she didn't have a barrier up.
 
Talking about Arthur, we will see him against Xenovia if both reach the final and it should be good. I do wonder why Ishibumi didn't write Kiba vs Xenovia or Kiba vs Arthur though.
 
Maybe Issei can do a switch for that match to get Yuuto on his team.

Xenovia vs Yuuto is hard because prior to Yuuto's new technique, CDD Xenovia with Excalibur's Scabbard was much superior. And now it's the opposite, with Yuuto being much superior.
 
I forgot if people are allowed to join from other teams like that. Isn't it shown to be limited to Kings so far?

Hmm, would it really be that easy though? We could think of it like this; Kiba's not superior in all ramifications. He's easily superior in speed and technique while Xenovia is superior in power. The reality is that Xenovia won't be able to see his movements and he'd easily run circles around her, but she also has the scabbard so it's impossible for Kiba to retire her and he's already said its possible for Xenovia to take him and the Dragon Knights out with a large scale attack (I think in V14).

So it's left to Kiba to find a way to incapacitate her, but is it really possible. For example, an old Vasco has already crushed Kiba's weapon with ease and Xenovia's superior to him. While Kiba has obviously grown stronger since that time, it should be the case even more so for Xenovia since she focuses more on power. And she already somehow broke out of Apollon's cage so I doubt Kiba can hold her back for long. She could physically break out or unleash aura to get rid of the weapons.

Another option is to drain the holy aura from her swords, but I have doubts since he doesn't have the feats for that. He didn't do so against replica users like Cristaldi and Vasco, so we can infer that he has limits and shouldn't be able to do so to Xenovia especially if she has access to Boost ~ Transfer. And there's one possible problem with Ruler, what if Xenovia manages to control the mass produced swords? I don't think Kiba would have it easy. Ishibumi could have written a stalemate, I guess.

In any case, I don't completely mind since Kiba finally got to face Ise and Xenovia got a goal with Vasco. About Kiba vs Arthur, except Arthur gets something major, he'd be blitzed by current Kiba too. But now that I think of it, I'm no longer surprised Kiba is faster than Pseudo DxD if freaking CB Ruruko can be faster than a Maou-class CxC lol.
 
<<And then, according to the new information that we just got, there is a possibility that the third son, Riser-senshu, who was eliminated in the preliminaries, will be joining this team as a player!>>

<<Players who held the [King] piece when they got defeated in the preliminaries are now able to join forces with the teams that will be participating in the main stage.>>

<<According to the rules, if a player belonged to a team that was eliminated in the preliminaries, it does not count as a double registration. What an interesting system! This means that players who lost in the preliminaries might unexpectedly reappear.>>

Indeed, there was a possibility that the people who didn't survive the prelims (there was a restriction on the number of who could come back) could become a member of a team that would be progressing to the main stage where they could shine again. In addition, it was possible for players to be recruited from the teams which had been eliminated from the main stage as well, although there were some strict limitations there. And the monitor continued to display the young Devils…

It's pretty confusing. One of the statements did mention the [King] part, but the other ones didn't. And the game with Shooting Star seemed to imply Sairaorg had Seekvaira's servants rather than herself ("support" is rather vague, though). Still, it might be possible Ishibumi didn't think it was necessary to repeat it, so for now sadly it seems Yuuto won't be able to fight Arthur in the tournament.

For sure, Xenovia is superior in power when accounting for CDD (without it most of her power seems to be derived from her Durandal usage, and Gram is at least equal to it in destructive power along with having more consistency so I think it would be more nebulous there), but it is possible that power advantage could be countered by Gram's (and Holy-Demonic Swords) dragon slayer quality and Yuuto's fighting method he learned from Strada. The Scabbard thing is true. Considering it could counter light even with her being a Devil it's likely it can also bypass dragon slayer aura (damage-wise) even if she's in CDD.

Strada's issue of breaking Yuuto's sword is kinda iffy when it comes to this, however. Yuuto had already received damage and gotten moderately tired from fighting Cristaldi, and breaking something with movements intended to break out from restraints should be harder than with grip. Xenovia wasn't really superior to old Strada either (at least it's not confirmed) since she only prevailed by breaking his weapon (which was 1/5 the strength of just one of hers individually) and because he was already exhausted due to his age. Apollon's cage feat is fair to mention, but since that was attributed to her use of Durandal, something like that can be countered by just using Holy-Demonic Swords to restrict her in a way she can't swing her sword, like restricting the limbs specifically, for example. Considering Yuuto can make a complete dome of Holy-Demonic Swords, the necessary quantity for that shouldn't be beyond his capacity.

He didn't drain the aura of Strada's sword, but he did drain that of Cristaldi's. Of course, it's possible he cannot do it with the real deal Durandal and Excalibur. It might be possible with many Holy-Demonic Swords but that's just my conjecture. I do believe the advantages of Boost, Transfer and Penetrate can at least be somewhat mitigated by Gram and Dragon Slayer Holy-Demonic Swords. You bring up an interesting point on Ruler, though. If that's the case then Yuuto would be in complete disadvantage.

Arthur is truly in need of something. Him just being the Caliburn/Collbrande guy always seemed kind of a waste to me, and it was so funny how his father almost commented on that verbatum. And I really need to read that DX.4 game. Sounds insane, lmao.
 
It does seem like Arthur will get a major improvement and it should make their match better. The question is when it will happen and if we will be able to see it.

True, I did not think of restricting the limbs. But since Durandal's aura is naturally aggressive, it's possible Xenovia just has to strongly channel it, then it responds to her and does the work by destroying the swords holding her back. Depends on whether they can properly absorb the holy aura, but I personally believe Kiba wouldn't be able to do so. And yeah, Ruler is quite something. Arthur would have been broken with it.

Reminds me, Kiba did say Xenovia could surpass him if she masters all the Excalibur techs. Looking back at the Cristaldi fight, those abilities are really annoying when combined together. Even Kiba was confused, lol.

Yeah, I did skim through the discussion with his dad. I really wonder what will happen to him, it seems like Alphecca Tyrant already has a wielder.

I'm surprised you haven't read it. I liked the buildup to the match (including something on Saji's private life, finally) and the match itself. I had seen from the spoilers that it was simply a brawl and Saji didn't use his abilities in a way that could have given Ise a lot of trouble, so I was disappointed like some and didn't expect much. But really, after reading the buildup and the emotion involved, I personally have little complaints about the way the match went. It's just something both Ise and Saji needed to get out of their systems, something that's been festering between them since V5. They even acknowledged that it was selfish of them and detrimental to the overall strategy of their teams. If they were to fight again, they would surely have a proper match this time. Although some don't like it, but well, not everyone will like the same thing and that's alright.

Btw, have you read the three translated chapters of Slash Dog 2?
 
So I've been thinking of something for the past day after a...unfortunate encounter with trash work. In his true DxD form, Issei was able to overcome both Rizviem's Sacred Gear Cancelor and Apophis' negating abilities due to Ophis' power of infinity being in which made think: we know he doesn't actually have infinite power but does he have the concept or idea of infinity in his aura/attacks and he applies that concept which negates the negating abilities? Reason I ask is because there is an ability that I believe he can overcome if this holds up (or since it is kind of similar to Rizviem and Apophis)
 
I don't think so, since other attacks can clash with his Infinity Blaster that has the power of infinity without getting nullified on contact. The only other possible instance is Ophis making Georg's fireball vanish (iirc) but it can be easily put down to the vast difference in power.

Also, you guys think Infinity Blaster destroyed that mountain range in the northeast of the Armaros Colosseum? It was said that the destruction wasn't limited to the middle (south to north), but that two cannons were aimed at the northeast and northwest portions of the field. Ishibumi didn't mention mountains after that though. Quite a letdown.
 
That's not what I was asking. I was asking is if attacks that would nullify his attacks due to abilities would not be able to because of the power of infinity.
 
I agree with @RoboVolcano4. In true dxd g form Ise could bypass power nullification abilities unless that PN abilities also infinite.

Just finish reading DxD Zero. As I already say before, Serafall and Falbium also surpass Satan class. Thought I don't like Funanimation translation. Looks like translator never read original Novel and only see anime.
 
Yes, I misunderstood his question. I also agree with that.

I'm jealous. >_>

(I guess that means they're stronger than the previous Lucifer too)

@Dragon

They can sense their energies (like aura, for example).

So guys, I've wanted to bring something up for quite some time now. The average mountain mass thing shouldn't be used for Issei's feat. I've seen multiple calcs related to mountains (even those that are implied to be big like what we're told of the Gremory mountains), both in this wiki and outside of it, and no one seems to use this. Even the person that originally calculated it at the OBD didn't use average mountain mass for Serafall's mountain busting feat later on, and only uses it for Ise's for some reason. It's just kinda strange and uncomfortable, seeing how no other series uses it. Another important thing is that someone with knowledge of calcs told me that it's actually invalid as it's about 25% of Mount Fuji, which is far above average - several orders of magnitude - for our normal standards and the relevant link is also broken anyway.

So it'd mean BxB Issei will be City level based on our minimum value for a small mountain, or Mountain level as I saw that destroying an average mountain is at that level and the mountains we've seen in the Gremory territory are described to be big. It could only be in the City level range if it's the smallest of mountains - which is a huge lowball, especially considering the descriptions of some Gremory mountains - and if the mountain is fragmented, which cannot be true as it's described to have completely vanished entirely. Definitely pulverisation at least.

The new ratings should basically look like this:

  • Ultimate-class: At least City level or Mountain level depending on what Issei's feat is accepted as. There are other similar things around this range like the Kyoto feat, Xenovia's Durandal Cannon, Bandersnatch destroying mountains, Skoll and Hati blowing away clouds which is at least City level (they blew away multiple clouds), etc.
  • Maou-class and God-class: = For the first generation Maou, they would be at least Mountain level or Large Mountain level through the multiplier, depending on what is accepted for Issei's feat. This is what people like Katerea and Bedeze will be at. For the second generation Maou and God-class, perhaps they could be Island level based on:
    • JD users destroying islands
    • Xenovia destroying a large portion of a large island
    • The statement for Serafall saying she can destroy an entire island with one shot if she gets serious
    • Trihexa's bodies destroying islands
    • Shooting Star destroying several islands.
I asked a friend to help calculate the statement for the ice princess freezing a small country and he told me it would be Island level, so that's something to support Island level for them.

  • Top Tiers: They will be Island level scaling above Lavinia (if the calc is accepted) and also based on Vali's feat. Finite Ophis would be Large Island level since she's 2x stronger than Ddraig and Albion. Guess it's arguable if Indra scales to that.
Sorry for the long post, but it's necessary for the verse. One more thing, Issei said CED Rias can fight against gods, so that means she must be Maou-class currently. Should we scale her to the first generation or second generation Maou? Personally, I would say second generation since Artemis gave Grayfia a good fight.

I'll make the revision thread at a later date, when the Lavinia calc is done.
 
I see.


(About the Extrasensory thing)

" They can sense their energies (like aura, for example). "

Does this include stuff like Lifeforce/Touki?
 
@BFF

the point is sound, but doesn't that mean that mean HD and Super Devil will be downgraded to 6-C?
 
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