High 8-C Todoroki Revision

[Andytrenom]

Currently Todoroki is rated as High 8-C with his maximum fire output because he was able to clash with Izuku when the latter used 100% of One For All. However, this is false. In this page, if you look closely closely at the arm that Izuku used in the clash (which is his right arm), the only injuries are some superficial bruises and mutilated fingers (which were from flicks that he used before the final clash).


the anime adaptation makes this detail even clearer. The only mutilations on Izuku's right hand are from before his clash with Todoroki

This is because Izuku did not use 100% in the final clash, but a lower percentage that wouldn't mutilate his arm.

Shouto did not clash with a 100% Izuku, so his profile should be adjusted accordingly. Now Therefir has brought up a calc that may put Todoroki's fire at High 8-C and I will be glad if that gets accepted. But if it doesn't, then Todoroki's High 8-C rating should be removed.

 

[Reppuzan]

I don't see how this isn't 100%.

Remember, this is before Izuku learned how to fine-tune his power. These attacks were all or nothing for him aside from grabbing attacks. It even has the characteristic clothes ripping that doesn't happen when he uses lower percentages.

It was 100%.

 

[Andytrenom]

Because if it was then his right hand would have been mutilated. Also he '''can''' lower the power output to below 100% and even did so a couple of times during their fight.

 

[Andytrenom]

I don't see how this isn't 100%.

No offense but that isn't really an argument.

 

[Reppuzan]

The whole point of that scene was to get Todoroki not to hold back because Izuku was pissed that Todoroki was holding back for such an arbitrary reason.

It'd ruin the entire point of the scene if Izuku wasn't going all out himself since he wouldn't be taking his own advice.

 

[Andytrenom]

Whether it ruins the scene or not isn't really relevant to whether it happened or not. Also, Todoroki not using his fire side is him letting his grudge with his father limit his potential as a hero which would possibly endanger him in the future. Izuku not using 100% is him avoiding destroying his own body when he is given the choice.

It is very inaccurate to suggest that Izuku using 100% is the same thing as Todoroki using his fire side.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andy

Then you're completely ignoring the context of the story over a single artistic detail.

Izuku can't use anything but 100% at this point in the story. Implying otherwise is what's inaccurate.

 

[Andytrenom]

He can and he did. In fact he never used 100% when directly attacking Todoroki, but only when trying to defend against his ice attacks.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andy

If I'm wrong on that point then my bad.

But still, the whole point of the fight was for both Izuku and Todoroki to go all out. If Izuku wasn't using 100% at that point against Todoroki's everything, then his entire point will have lost all value.

Neither one was holding back.

 

[LordGinSama]

I agree with Repp here

 

[Js250476]

I also agree with Repp

 

[Andytrenom]

@Andy

If I'm wrong on that point then my bad.

But still, the whole point of the fight was for both Izuku and Todoroki to go all out. If Izuku wasn't using 100% at that point against Todoroki's everything, then his entire point will have lost all value.

Neither one was holding back.

If the final strike was 100% then why didn't his hand take the damage that comes with 100%?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andy

I don't know why Horikoshi decided to draw things that way, but all of the context leading up to that one clash points to both of them going all out.

It wouldn't make sense for Izuku not to 100% at this point.

 

[Andytrenom]

No that's just one interpretation of the scene. And it looking like they are going all out doen't justify ignoring a detail like his arm not suffering 100% damage.

As for it not making sense, Izuku may have:

Backed off on going all out himself because he was concerned about Todoroki getting killed (he naturally puts others' welfare above his own, this would be perfectly in character for him)

Not actually been angry about Todoroki not going all out. His goal was to get Todoroki to embrace his fire side, yelling that Todoroki should "come at him with his full power" could have just been the best thing he could think to say to get through to Todoroki.

Not considered using a controlled punch as going against his own advice. Even if it wasn't his absolute strongest attack he was still taking the battle seriously and trying his best to win when using a lower percentage OFA so it wasn't necessarily him "Holdin back" in the traditional sense.

So yeah I disagree that it doesn't sense for him to not use 100%.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andy

But there's no indication in the scene that he was being concerned about Todoroki's well-being in that final clash, because he only grinned after Todoroki said that he shouldn't complain about what happened next. He also outright says that he's giving it all he's got.

To say that he isn't going all out at this point when he says so himself is just ludicrous and ridiculous nit-picking.

 

[Andytrenom]

My point isn't that the scenarios I have laid out are the correct ones. My point is that saying that it makes "No sense for him to not use 100%" is not correct because it suggests that the only possible scenario here is Izuku using 100% and that everything else is incorrect.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andy

It is the only possible scenario when all the buildup to it is saying that he's using 100% and you're nitpicking based on a single artistic detail.

 

[Andytrenom]

No it isn't, and saying it is is just blatant disregard for any interpretation other than your own.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andy

So the scan I showed that says he's going all out doesn't matter at all?

 

[Andytrenom]

@Repuzzan Go over the thread and show me where I said it doesn't matter. I do not like having my arguments misrepresented.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andy

Then what is your argument?

I apologize if I'm sounding rude, but I still don't understand your train of thought after I already debunked the idea that Izuku wasn't going all out.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Reppuzan I would have certainly agreed with you that Izuku was going 100% but the thing is, it is contradicted by Izuku's right arm not being mutilated by the the strike. You never addressed this problem sufficiently and instead only dismissed it as being a nitpick. You can't claim you have debunked something when you did not even bother to address the main point that the argument was based on.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andy

In the manga his hand is black.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Reppuzan Huh? why is that different from the page that I have in the OP?

Edit: I am going to go through the fight again and see if I made any errors.

 

[Andytrenom]

Okay, I have reevaluated the scene and I will admit it, Reppuzan may be right here.

 

[Damage3245]

Reppuzan, I think you have bad scan quality to blame there. In the official release the arm doesn't look anywhere near that bad.

Here is the official version of the page. Izuku's hand looks damaged, but mostly from the fact that he had broken his fingers repeatedly by this point. Certainly his entire arm doesn't look broken like every other time he uses 100%.

However I don't mind one way or the other which way this thread goes.

 

[Andytrenom]

I still think he didn't use 100% though I am not as confident as before.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

http://bokunoheroacademia.wikia.com/wiki/One_For_All

One For All: Full Cowling - 100% (First used against Chisaki)

"One For All 100%: A technique that allows Izuku to attack using the full power of One For All in one concentrated part of his body. After initial use, the limb breaks instantly. He can still use expended limbs in combat, but it causes scarring once they're completely healed. [28]"

100% Detroit Smash (100 ÒâæÒâ╝Òé╗Òâ│Òâê ÒâçÒâêÒâ¡ÒéñÒâêÒé╣Òâ×ÒââÒéÀÒâÑ, 100 P─üsento Detoroito Sumasshu?): While using 100% of One For All, Izuku strikes his target with a lunging punch.[29]"

http://bokunoheroacademia.wikia.com/wiki/Chapter_76

@Reppuzan One For All 100% is not displayed by Izuku until the 3rd Season, come on now. Not to mention that having better control of your power will not rely you to use all of it in one go.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Magi

Um... what? His very first use of One for All was at 100%.

Just because it wasn't named doesn't mean he wasn't using 100% when literally everything described on there was used when he was attacking the Zero-Pointer.

Also, don't use Wiki articles as evidence.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Reppuzan

"Um... what? His very first use of One for All was at 100%."

From the way it was portrayed the sure, I suppose you can say that.

"Just because it wasn't named doesn't mean he wasn't using 100% when literally everything described on there was used when he was attacking the Zero-Pointer.

Also, don't use Wiki articles as evidence."

It doesn't automatically mean he used it against Todoroki since he had better control over it during the time and its likely that he reduced the percentage of it so it wouldn't harm his right arm.

If the wiki didn't backed up the statements with official evidence from the Manga, then clearly I would not rely on the info. it provided.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Magi

When he says he's "going all out" in his internal monologue, he's not using anything but his maximum power.

You don't "go all out" and use a fraction of your power.

And no, the wiki only records named attacks.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Reppuzan

"When he says he's "going all out" in his internal monologue, he's not using anything but his maximum power.

You don't "go all out" and use a fraction of your power."

Even though that may be true in a way, the thing is that the other time he used One For All 100% against Muscular, his power that was flowing within him and it covered his entire body just before unleashing a powerful punch at him. Using the same attack at Todoroki without both his arms being injured in the process does not really make any sense when you think about it honestly.

"And no, the wiki only records named attacks."

No, not exactly. It records everything that has been shown in the Anime & Manga.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Magi

Um, no. He was used to using One for All: Full Cowl at that point, so of course it would cover his whole body when he's pushing up against Muscular.

The whole point of the early chapters is the fact that Izuku can't limit his use of One for All properly. Until about the Sports Festival, it's everything or nothing in the limb he's using it in.

He outright says he's using All Might's power and that his body can't handle it at that point.

You're nitpicking and ignoring context to fit your viewpoint.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

I agree with Repp

 

[Andytrenom]

@Reppuzan As I already pointed out, he could in fact limit his use of One For All during the todoroki fight.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andy

And I already agreed with that.

But he was using 100% all or nothing from the start with his first punch with his Quirk and his Delaware Smashes.

It again makes zero sense to not be using 100% when he outright says he's going all out and he'd be an enormous hypocrite if he was telling Todoroki to go all out when he himself wasn't giving it his all when he says he's giving it his all.

 

[Andytrenom]

Reppuzan I doubt we will be able to objectively decide what happened here so maybe voting is the best choice right now.

 

[Andytrenom]

Maybe this is just me taking everything too literally, but him not using 100% does not make zero sense.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Reppuzan

"Um, no. He was used to using One for All: Full Cowl at that point, so of course it would cover his whole body when he's pushing up against Muscular."

False (Start at 3:44): https://youtu.be/IeqVueVyySk

Correction: When I mentioned earlier that when One For All covered his "entire body," I really meant to say that One For All 100% covered most of his body except for his legs.

Also no, that isn't Full Cowl since that, however, would involve One For All flowing through his legs as well.

"The whole point of the early chapters is the fact that Izuku can't limit his use of One for All properly. Until about the Sports Festival, it's everything or nothing in the limb he's using it in."

Yes but later in the series he has trained himself of having better control of this power and managed to reduced the amount of damage to his arms. In fact, Izuku used his right arm to attack Todoroki 2x and it wasn't severely damaged afterwards. That's how better and improved he gotten in controlling (not fully controlled but controlled enough that he prevented himself from getting another severe injury to his other arm during the Sports Festival) its power after learning a good tip on how to do so all by himself.

"He outright says he's using All Might's power and that his body can't handle it at that point.

You're nitpicking and ignoring context to fit your viewpoint."

No offense but look at what you're doing right now, you're trying to use a scan that occurred before the Sports Festival to disprove Izuku having better control of All Might's power later in the series.

 

[DreamcrosserSquad]

I'm kinda late but y'all also gotta note that in an earlier episode, he used something lower than 100% as seen here. Although, I have no idea if this was entirely on purpose though, and this was also in an earlier episode as I said, so I may be wrong.