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Help with Borderlands revisions.

Do we know Pandora's and Elpis' size? I haven't seen anything that tells us their diameter or circumference
 
We know it has 90 hour day cylces, doing a simple rule of 3 it gives you around 47,782 km.
 
As for Sorvoes stuff. Turning people to ash is 9A, we already scale VHs to Moonshot Cannon, and I don't think we can scale stuff like Lilith's travel speed with wings to anything but her.

Grenade stuff is a good feat tho, explosions tend to move at speeds between 2000 m/s and like 8000 m/s IIRC.
 
The ayy lmaos in TPS can easily deflect most laser weapons and regular bandits in BL3 can pretty easily dodge bullets.
 
Describe dodge bullets. Because this is also like... aim dodging and similar stuff.
 
Not aim dodge, they just randomly do a very quick roll out of the way of bullets that are already traveling in mid air. It happens alot when I play BL3 so I'm sure it's easy to find a video showing it happening.
 
Okay. Cool enough I guess. Get a legitimate clip and we can work from there.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Doesn't this fall under gameplay? obviously enemies are programmed to occasionally dodge incoming projectiles.
Click to expand...
Gameplay can be used in certain verses and theres numerous cutscene feats for VH's being casual bullet timers.
 
Again though, that would still be aim-dodging. We could get movement speed from it but that's a pretty hefty leap for gameplay in a case of Tales (where you would absolutely need to be given a possibility to dodge for gameplay purposes, since Fiona is fodder and would probably ****** die from a High 7-C bullet).

Do you have the cutscenes where VHs are casual bullet timers?
 
That's literally not aim dodging. The bullet is like less than a meter from her when the player is given the option to react and move. They could've showcase the scene any other way if they thought of it as gameplay or whatever as they did with the walking dead or The Wolf Among Us, like by having her hide and then Mordecai does a quick turn around shot at at the area she was at, not have Fiona casually bullet time.

Anara dodging a bullet was already posted in the thread: https://youtu.be/GXwVI4Cl2KU?t=125

Still try to find a clear video of bandits dogding bullets in gameplay but I can post the The Sentinal deflecting bullets and lasers, which would scale to TPS, BL2 and BL3 characters.
 
"Aim Dodging refers to the technique of avoiding linear attacks by re-positioning oneself away from the path of the attack before it is fired."

One could argue that she literally visibly reacts to the gun being moved towards her, the shot is fired and it is up to the player when she actually moves since we don't see the footage of the shot being fired. All I'm saying is that the feat isn't concrete. Anara's feat is pretty solid though, so we have at least Bullet Timing.
 
"Aim Dodging refers to the technique of avoiding linear attacks by re-positioning oneself away from the path of the attack before it is fired"

Yea, this didn't happen. Rewatch the scene, we hear the gun firing before we are given the option to dodge or the sequence for dodging starts, we see the bullet is over half way to Fiona before we are given the option to dodge while Fiona is still in a crouching position and we see Fiona literally jump out of the way of the mid air bullet. This isn't aim dodging no matter how you look at it.

And it isn't impossible either according to gameplay and side missions. The average person in Borderlands seem to be superhuman themselves from being able to survive falling incredible heights and jump incredibly high to some even surviving their head being blown comepletely off and getting stronger from it.
 
Yes, I realize- the gun fires off-screen but at the first next visible shot we are given the opportunity to dodge. I don't think it matters since the other feat is fine but I stick by my statement- Fiona's feat is muddy at best.

I mean. I don't know what the last bit of your comment is about but okay, noted.
 
I dip in and outta threads m80, discussion tends to drone on.
 
Oh yea, remembered that one but didn't think about it. It's definitely worth mentioning. Also, I'm 90% sure that at least BL3 and possibly some 1 and 2 vault hunters are Relativistic+ and maybe even FTL but I haven't finished BL3 yet so I can't give a full opinion on that.
 
Yeah, that one should scale only to End-Game VH tbh.

Mr. Bambu said:
I dip in and outta threads m80, discussion tends to drone on.
Click to expand...
Guessing most of them are D&D ones.
 
Most of them are staff-only threads. D&D discussion is light and normally occurs over Discord with relevant people beforehand kek.
 
So I brought this feat up earlier, but I got the clip for it now. Calculating the reaction time of Tyreen catching and containing the grenade going off in her face could up the reaction time of the BL universe since Tyreen should scale to Lilith since they were pretty even in their first fight and most VHs scale to Lilith. Here's the clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vPiU_AYpFI (from 1:22-1:29 should be usable)

We know the explosion is caught in under a second, but the clip does give us a blast radius of it, so the time it took to explode based off real-world grenades should be possible to calculate
 
Well. Honestly the size of the explosion and the distance her armed moved could give an idea. As I said earlier, 4000 m/s is generally explosion speed, though it can vary heavily.
 
If we know Tyreen's height, we can tell the size of the explosion based on the size of her head. There's a purple aura around the fireball to show how big it is. Also, from the context of her scene, we know her left arm had to move the farthest since it was fully outstretched holding up Typhon, then she dropped him to reach back and contain the explosion
 
@Mr. Bambu

the gun fires off-screen but at the first next visible shot we are given the opportunity to dodge. I stick by my statement- Fiona's feat is muddy at best.

Yea and where is the bullet when we first see it? Where is the bullet during the time Fiona is given the option to dodge? Where is the bullet when Fiona's finally starts the dodge animation? If the answer isn't in mid air then you have to be blind or just willfully being stubborn. I don't see how the feat is muddy at all and it's actually quite an clear speed feat. It doesn't fit the definition of Aim Dodging whatsoever.

I don't think it matters since the other feat is fine

The feat matters because it shows relatively normal people in the borderlands universe can dodge bullets. It's supporting stuff.

I mean. I don't know what the last bit of your comment is about but okay, noted.

The last bit was meant to explain how regular humans such as bandits are superhuman.
 
Oh my god I do not care at all I have explained to you why there is reasonable doubt with the feat but we have an already acceptable feat let's move on yaaaaay

No.

No. Especially to the bit where you apparently imply your average bandit regenerates from their head being blown off.
 
I mean I would love to hear another explanation for the feat and actually point out what's wrong with it as a speed feat rather than stating blatently incorrect things about it as if it's dubious. I just geniuenly don't see anything wrong with it. Nothing makes it different from other speed feats that have been accepted and it's arguably a more legit speed feat than the BL3 one that is considered valid.

This isn't something to say yes or no to.

Neither is this. This is just a fact. I didn't imply average bandits regenerate from their head being blown off, I said some can survive their head being blow off, nothing about Regenerationn.
 
Whatever, I'll just ask other calc members later about the feat to see if they could tell me what's wrong with it.

This thread should just move on.
 
What is On Screen: Vault-Hunter-Wannabe looks at Mordecai, who turns, shot isn't seen. Next sight we have is flipped from the zoom-in on Mordecai back to Fiona- so we have no idea when she started moving because when we flip to Fiona, time is in slow-mo. I don't care about this. I am merely explaining why it is muddy. It does not matter because we have a feat.

The feat doesn't matter.

Yes you literally do.

And it isn't impossible either according to gameplay and side missions. The average person in Borderlands seem to be superhuman themselves from being able to survive falling incredible heights and jump incredibly high to some even surviving their head being blown comepletely off and getting stronger from it
~ Dienomite​
The last bit was meant to explain how regular humans such as bandits are superhuman.
~ Dienomite​
I'm fine with considering bandits superhuman, you seem to have at some point confused yourself and began countering ideas I never posited. Of course bandits are superhuman. My main issue is the whole "yeah they get their head blown off and get stronger from it".
 
This has become a sort of time dump/sink at this point where I'm just discussing the same feat that I've already established is irrelevant, so I'm unfollowing. Good luck I guess.
 
Vault-Hunter-Wannabe looks at Mordecai, who turns, shot isn't see.(Doesn't need to be, we hear the shot and see Mordecai, an extremely skilled sniper who was trying to kill Fiona aim directly at her) Next sight we have is flipped from the zoom-in on Mordecai back to Fiona- so we have no idea when she started moving because when we flip to Fiona'' (blatently false, we are aware of Fiona's movement during the whole interaction and see her movement from when she's crouching and until she dodged, we have to since we do the command for her to dodge), time is in slow-mo (irrelevent).

The feat doesn't matter.

No, it does. Adding more feats is always important for a verse, especially borderlands where they are currently rating peak human in speed. Things have to be undeniably consistant and more feats, regardless if they're the same or won't yield much are always valuable.

Yes you literally do.

No. Especially to the bit where you apparently imply your average bandit regenerates from their head being blown off.

Thanks for proving my point and quoting me, now show me where I said the average bandit regenerates from their head being blown off or implied it. Go on.


My main issue is the whole "yeah they get their head blown off and get stronger from it".

Yea, get stronger, not regenerate. Goliaths turn into psuedo hulks when their head get's blow off and they get bigger, faster, stronger and evolve the more they kill.
 
Now, I'm done with that.

I believe the things that need to be discussed are:

Tiering changes

Tyreen grenade speed feat

Troy phase shifting the moon speed feat

Lilith traveling to the moon speed feat

The Sentinel deflecting laser weapons speed feat

And I think more but can't remember right now.
 
I don't believe Troy was phase-lifting the moon. If I remember correctly, they say he's charging it with Eridium and that's pulling the moon in because it's starting to unlock Pandora
 
I mean't phaselock, I don't understand why I even said phase shifting because that's Angel's powers. Must've been tired. Also, I think Lilith pushed the moon back really far from where it was originally at the end (before Troy phaselocked it).
 
So Troy charged it with Eridium to pull it in before Phaselocking it and holding it still so it would still open the Great Vault and not collide with the planet, right?
 
I think the moon was just really close originally and Lilith doing what she did at the end pushed it really far back. Whatever that yields should scale to bl3 vault hunters, Tyreen and Troy since Lilith who just got her power back and was weaker than Tyreen before shouldn't be stronger by the end of the game. But it has to be consitant so supporting feats matter.

Troy charged himself with Eridium and Tyreen's power to get enough energy to charge the moon with his own powers to open the Great Vault on Nekrotefio. This isn't a typical moon feat either since Troy is charging advance alien tech that covers the moon and is inside it I believe (or was the alien tech THE moon idk).
 
Oh yea, the description for the area you go to fight Troy alludes to the moon falling as well.
 
Summarizing the big feats that would affect tiering, starting with the Destroyer:

The Destroyer being stated to be ripping the planet apart, twice during the final period of Borderlands 3 (which can be seen and felt in game). Pandora is a giant man-made planet built by the Eridians with an upper mantle made entirely out of Eridium. Pandora was made specifically to cage the Destroyer and it is noted that even the Eridians who's reach can "pluck stars from across the void" , built the moo and the Vault of the Serpent (which contains a large amount of stars and a su), took centuries to build Pandora (Which goes to show how dangerous the Destroyer is to the Eridians). This would get rid of any arguments that would try to claim The Destroyer isn't anything above High 7-C because he can't escape Pandora...but there's more. The Destroyer is stated to literally eat starsand this is backed up again by the Eridian writings which states "even as stars in the sky above began to wink out" when refering to Eridian's building Pandora while the Destroyer is consuming more and more stars. Tyreen's goal also aligns with these statements as well. She wants to absorb the Destroyer and literally consume stars until she is literally the only star in the sky. Although something from BL TPS seems to contradict the Destroyer having this kind of power.

In The Pre-Sequel, Handsome Jack uses the Destroyer's eye as a laser and amplifies its power 10 fold by using Slag. Although this contraption is stated to be able to destroy Elpis (the moon), it seemingly contradicts the statements regarding the Destroyer eating stars in BL3 because it would mean the eye can only perform multi-continental to moon level feat only when it's boosted to 10x it's normal destructiveness by slag. But this is easily be explained by the Destroyer's eye output just not being comparable in power to it's full self which we know makes up a large portion of Pandora and is likely larger than Elpis. This also leads to the next character I would like to discuss which is Lilith.

Lilith after finally getting her power back from Tyreen and having not absorb any Eridium, pushed the giant ass moon Elpis away from Pandora albeit possibly at the cost of her life. Here's where Elpis was originally, here's how close Elpis was to Pandora before Troy made it come closer and here's how far Lilith pushed the moon back. If you have a keen eye, than you can see that Lilith pushed Elpis back to it's original position. Now you may ask "Why does this matter? Lilith is implied to have died from doing this." and you would be correct but keep in mind what I said before, this is a Lilith who just got her powers back from Tyreen and hasn't absorbed any Eridium meaning this would scale to Tyreen and Troy. Now you might also ask "How does this scale to Tyreen and Troy? They aren't Lilith!" and to answer that is easy. Tyreen upon first appearing dominated Lilith and absorbed her powers, along with absorbing numerous amounts of cultists, vault monsters, eridium and the Destroyer, it would be hard to prove that Tyreen doesn't scale to this feat but she wouldn't be the only one who scales here, Troy and mid-game BL3 Vault Hunters would also scale of course. Now onto the next feat which hopefully proves the consistency of this feat.

To make this simple, Troy phaselocks Elpis and brings it closer to Pandora and charge it with his power. This feat was initially done with Eridium as his supply making it difficult to sell as a feat but later on in the mission the VHs cut off Troy's supply of Eridium and so Troy began using Tyreen as the energy source to charge Elpis which is not just a moon but the Vault Key for Pandora that was created by the Eridians that can open Pandora and unleash the Destroyer. This means it makes sense that Troy used outside power sources to charge the moon and it doesn't contradict Lilith's feat but rather helps it, nor does it contradict the scaling that would arise from it. Which would be:

At least 5-C Tyreen and Troy (Should be far stronger than Lilith who performed that moon feat without Eridium and right after her siren powers returned)

At least 5-C Mid-Game BL3 VHs (Defeated Troy who absorbed large amounts of eridium and Tyreen's powers during their fight)

At least 5-B, likely 4-C for the Destroyer (Far stronger than Siren's such as Lilith, Tyreen and Troy who could perform (insert those moon feats here) and was repeatedly stated to be able to destroy Pandora and Pandora is implied to be largely composed of it's body. Was stated multiple time to literally eat stars and was consider a massive threat to the Eridians who could built moons, planets and even create vaults that houses a sun and numerous stars)

At least 5-C, possibly 4-C for Tyreen The Destroyer (Far stronger than her base form, consumed the Destroyer who (copy paste the Destroyer's 4-C reasoning here))

At least 5-C, possibly 4-C for Late-Game BL3 VHs (Stronger than their mid-game self. Defeated Tyreen the Destroyer)

Due note that the 5-C ratings comes from the moon feats and are a placeholder. They likely yield a higher result because Elpis is a fairly large moon. Same with the Destroyer shaking Pandora, which would be Low 6-B on an Earth sized planet but Pandora is huge.

Took my entire night trying to make this post but it feels worth it, let me know what you guys think.
 
I see no way to reasonably scale BL2 VHs to this except maybe Maya but that's a big stretch unfortunately.
 
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