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Helltaker Discussion Thread

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A thread to discuss the Puzzle Indie game, Helltaker!
67463_1591436694_2cd5b87dbf126cfa661fe5114e07bfd4.png

Here, you can communicate about any media related to the hellish harem building game in all its dapper glory.
 
Topic Discussions:
  • Organizing the verse page
  • Assuring all calculations are accepted
  • Update pages with more links/sources
  • Ideas for more characters, keys, or abilities that should be added
For clarification sake, this Topic Discussions message will serve as conversation topics that are currently highlighted/important, and being discussed or rather should be discussed. Though of course, it's never mandatory. The purpose is only to put topics important/relevant to the quality of the verse and its profiles in the spotlight. It's like a checklist; you write everything important for the day down, you finish one thing, and you check it off. If discourse is frequent here, this message will be constantly changing.
 
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To address the topics I've listed;

Regarding organization, nothing big is required. Not yet anyway, however, one thing I do believe needs to change is a calculations section on the Helltaker verse page. I feel this is a must-have for most verses. This way, if there's a scaling chain, if someone wishes to view the calculations, they can instead just go to the verse page and find the feats everyone scales off of. Of course, if there are a ton of calculations, this method of finding the exact value they scale to becomes a bit difficult, however, notes can be added to clarify scaling and if certain characters downscale or upscale off of a feat, etc.

Now, I know this might seem redundant if the verse currently all scales off of one blog/feat, and to a degree it is, but for reasons listed above, it would be beneficial to have it regardless. However, much to your belief, there are several calculations both old and new that could be added to a calculations section of the page for those worried about dead space. Here is a compilation of every blog that currently exists for the verse:
Gathering more feats and calculations are self-explanatory. I myself haven't sifted through everything about Helltaker, such as the official comics, but I imagine they would produce some feats, or at least showcase new abilities or further delve into already existing abilities for clarification. I myself plan to look through the base game plus DLC for some feats worth calculating, and afterward look through other media such as the Twitter comics when I have time. You are free to do the same, and I in fact encourage it, as the more help the better.

While some abilities and such have sources/links to the source material as evidence of function and just overall existence, there are several that are either lacking explanation, or sources/links. That of course should be taken care of as we want people to have as much context as possible and to at least know said abilities actually exist to begin with.

Characters that should be added, such as for example; Judgement, or Subject 67. Maybe Loremaster's mech. As for a key worth adding, Azazel should definitely have separate keys. One for their initial appearance when they're an angel, and one for after they've become a demon many years later down the line (Loremaster). Statistically, there isn't much of a change, but personality, age-wise, and ability-wise, experience-wise, I'd say they're fairly different.

I'd be fully willing to make a sandbox for Judgement as she's my favorite demon, and maybe the other characters if no one's willing to help. But I do hope there are others who are still passionate about the verse who are willing to contribute here.

Inevitably, all of this would result in a fairly large CRT, and the entire verse looking drastically different and more professional. That's all I have to say for now. Thank you for reading!
 
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Alright to start off, i think the demons should have supernatural will (If that exists on the website) due to existing in hell due to humans like the Helltaker dying when he losses his will.

Second, all the demons should have type 1 (and some other type for Cerberus) immortality due to not aging or dying in Hell.

Third, Lucifer should negate durability due to her death manipulation.

And finally, we need the other demons to be on the website as some of them have Natural Weaponry, Weapon Mastery, Blood Manipulation (Cerberus can do blood rituals), and the demons should have resistances to abilities like Death Manipulation, Disease Manipulation, Perception Manipulation, Smoke Manipulation (Zdrada is a heavy smoker), Madness Manipulation (Beelzebub never went insane while in the abyss), etc.

But that's the only things i want to say about the profiles and what could be added.

 
  • Quick question, why do we link to Imgur with the comics when they can be found on the creator official twitter?:
Hell Taker Disease Manipulation reason
Lucifer Limited Shapering
Beelzebub acid manipulation reasons
  • Also, I think we should separate Azazel into 2 Keys, because there's a lot of time between Helltaker and Examtaker, along with her getting Cyborgization and Genius Intelligence.

Unfortunately I don't have time to help (classes, deciding what to study, which university to go to and working on the revision of an entire franchise and then doing my own CTR to fix their vs wiki profiles) but I will try to help in the inevitable CTR
 
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I think twitter links weren't as permanent as imgur ones.

I am willing to go through the entire game and dlc, screenshoting every feat I'll see, and putting it in imgur + blog, but not till Sunday, and since it is a short game, if anyone's willing to do it instead, go ahead.
 
Alright to start off, i think the demons should have supernatural will (If that exists on the website) due to existing in hell due to humans like the Helltaker dying when he losses his will.
That could be added. I don't quite recall that, but if you can get scans for him dying if he loses his will and post them here, then we could definitely add that in a CRT.
Second, all the demons should have type 1 (and some other type for Cerberus) immortality due to not aging or dying in Hell.
They could just have longevity. Their horns age as well. It's possible they're immortal, however, the only Demon confirmed to be Immortal as far as I recall is Judgement, which I added to her sandbox, as she blatantly states she's immortal
1589242214.jpg

It's possible to infer everyone has immortality, but It'd probably be safer to give them longevity.

Third, Lucifer should negate durability due to her death manipulation.
Makes sense, that's pretty obvious. She should also have it because of her transmutation.
And finally, we need the other demons to be on the website as some of them have Natural Weaponry, Weapon Mastery, Blood Manipulation (Cerberus can do blood rituals)
I agree, their should definitely be more. That's what I got to work on a Judgement profile. I'll link my sandbox of her at the end of this reply so you can take a look. It's far from done, but it's off to a good start. Also, Cerbeus doing a blood ritual wouldn't warrant blood manipulation unless they're magically manipulating blood. Either by some telekinetic or magical influence. At best, it'd be something like unholy manipulation since I'm assuming the ritual would've either summoned an evil spirit or did something bad.
and the demons should have resistances to abilities like Death Manipulation, Disease Manipulation, Perception Manipulation, Smoke Manipulation (Zdrada is a heavy smoker), Madness Manipulation (Beelzebub never went insane while in the abyss), etc.
Now, we should be careful not to give every demon a resistance the same things just because one of them can resist it. If it's something that can more easily be inferred, it's possible. But at times, it's not because of their biology, but rather just a resistance unique to them.

Here's the sandbox btw
 
I think twitter links weren't as permanent as imgur ones.

I am willing to go through the entire game and dlc, screenshoting every feat I'll see, and putting it in imgur + blog, but not till Sunday, and since it is a short game, if anyone's willing to do it instead, go ahead.
Sounds dope. Hopefully, there are still a few feats left in the game. Even if it's just supportive stuff like skull-crushing or something. I had planned to either look up every death/every possible choice on YouTube or do it myself. Though I wouldn't mind if you did that when you get on on Sunday. I'll probably skim some YT video's in the meantime.

Great sandbox.
Thanks. I'm honestly surprised they didn't already have a profile already given they seem to be the only Demon who's actually a fighter with a decent amount of abilities.
 
They could just have longevity. Their horns age as well. It's possible they're immortal, however, the only Demon confirmed to be Immortal as far as I recall is Judgement, which I added to her sandbox, as she blatantly states she's immortal
1589242214.jpg

It's possible to infer everyone has immortality, but It'd probably be safer to give them longevity.
You can have immortality type 1 & still show aging signs(Example: DC's New Gods). It would just be eternal life with prepetual youth.
 
You can have immortality type 1 & still show aging signs(Example: DC's New Gods). It would just be eternal life with prepetual youth.
While that is true, I thought their argument was implying that they were immortal because they didn't appear to physically age. Which while true for most of their body, doesn't seem to be the case when it comes to their horns, which change white as they become ancient. We don't really have evidence that all demons don't die from old age. With Judgement, it's well cemented due to them stating they were, with me of course using the statement that only their horns change with age as supplementary evidence (Though it's possible Demon's biology are completely different, and white horns for them are the equivalent to wrinkly skin or whatever for us).
 
While that is true, I thought their argument was implying that they were immortal because they didn't appear to physically age. Which while true for most of their body, doesn't seem to be the case when it comes to their horns, which change white as they become ancient. We don't really have evidence that all demons don't die from old age. With Judgement, it's well cemented due to them stating they were, with me of course using the statement that only their horns change with age as supplementary evidence (Though it's possible Demon's biology are completely different, and white horns for them are the equivalent to wrinkly skin or whatever for us).
We don't have evidence that demons can die from old age either. The horns getting white with aging isn't really an anti-feat. Also immortality type 1 not only protects from old age death but also sickness. Beel lived in the Abyss uneffected by every diease known to man. Also why would Judgement be the only immortal demon in the series, cause of her job? Justice used to have Judgement's role.
 
We don't have evidence that demons can die from old age either.
We need evidence that all demons are immortal. Not that they aren't. Them being immortal would be a positive asserted claim. Just because the Demons we happen to see haven't died, doesn't mean they can't eventually die. We're assuming simply because they've lived for an unknown amount of time, that they're immortal.
The horns getting white with aging isn't really an anti-feat.
It some cases it can. It's not explicit, but it certainly would've helped if we saw Judgement in the DLC since the Demons who did have black horns back in the first game now had white horns.
Also immortality type 1 not only protects from old age death but also sickness. Beel lived in the Abyss uneffected by every diease known to man.
Guess, what, Helltaker was also resistant to the diseases in the abyss. It's not really proof that all demons are immortal. Especially since the concept of death doesn't even exist in the abyss, meaning by default Beezlbub would have immortality (Only in the abyss). But that'd just apply to anyone who was in the abyss in general.
Also why would Judgement be the only immortal demon in the series, cause of her job? Justice used to have Judgement's role.
We don't need a reason. Characters can have abilities, resistances, etc. that are unique to them (For what it's worth, Judgement was implied to have been an Angel before).

I think it's possible to give every demon immortality based on every information we have, but if we did, I think it would have to be a likely rating. Since it's not super concrete. But I'll check if there are any other statements in the game that imply the other demons are immortal.
 
We need evidence that all demons are immortal. Not that they aren't. Them being immortal would be a positive asserted claim. Just because the Demons we happen to see haven't died, doesn't mean they can't eventually die. We're assuming simply because they've lived for an unknown amount of time, that they're immortal.
Most characters would lose immortality that way
It some cases it can. It's not explicit, but it certainly would've helped if we saw Judgement in the DLC since the Demons who did have black horns back in the first game now had white horns.
We only see Justice who's likely the oldest demon besides Beel & Lucy.
Guess, what, Helltaker was also resistant to the diseases in the abyss. It's not really proof that all demons are immortal. Especially since the concept of death doesn't even exist in the abyss, meaning by default Beezlbub would have immortality (Only in the abyss). But that'd just apply to anyone who was in the abyss in general.
Justice fought Beel who cause diseases manip too
We don't need a reason. Characters can have abilities, resistances, etc. that are unique to them (For what it's worth, Judgement was implied to have been an Angel before).

I think it's possible to give every demon immortality based on every information we have, but if we did, I think it would have to be a likely rating. Since it's not super concrete. But I'll check if there are any other statements in the game that imply the other demons are immortal.
So? Characters can have abilities that are unique to the race than rather than just themselves too(Then at least Lucy & Azezal would've it as fallen angels).

She mentions her immortality when describing her job. "An(not The) immortal avatar of pain, swarn to murder through torture"-meaning this would not be unique to just her.
 
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On the topic of abilities, it looks like Malina does get blood manipulation based on the bad ending with her. To quote the death:

"She made a sweeping motion and a fountain of blood exploded from your devastated throat."
 
Most characters would lose immortality that way
If we assumed every arbitrarily old character was immortal we'd also have a lot of characters with immortality. We'd basically be giving the reasoning

"Immortality (They're really old)"

as evidence. Which doesn't seem right at all. It's usually blatant if someone's immortal because there's a statement or some other sources that confirm it. If they are simply really old, they could just have longevity. We can't just arbitrarily assume immortality. Honestly, if there are pages where characters have immortality just due to being arbitrarily old without any more evidence should lose immortality. Like what, are we going to give Freeza immortality since they haven't appeared to age since before Goku was born?
We only see Justice who's likely the oldest demon besides Beel & Lucy.
How do we know Justice is the oldest (Excluding Beel and Lucy)? I don't recall that really being stated anywhere. As far as I recall, we just know every demon is younger than Lucifer and Beezlebub
Justice fought Beel who cause diseases manip too
We know justice sealed Beezlbub away, though we don't know any of the specifics at all. We do know that's how she lost her sight though. Which could also be caused by disease, but again, we know so little about that, it's not like we could use it as solid proof of resistance.
So? Characters can have abilities that are unique to the race than rather than just themselves too(Then at least Lucy & Azezal would've it as fallen angels).
They could have abilities unique to their race, but why would we assume that? Are we also going to assume every demon has Lucifer's death manipulation and transmutation? Or Malina's blood manipulation? etc?

Its clear Demons can have unique abilities or properties. It gets even more confusing when you realize several of said demons used to be angels (I.e. Lucifer, Judgement, and Azazel).
She mentions her immortality when describing her job. "An(not The) immortal avatar of pain, swarn to murder through torture"-meaning this would be unique to just her.
It's possible it's unique to her because of her role, but the mention of it when including her job description doesn't imply it originates from said job.

It would be like me saying: "Am I not the all-powerful gatekeeper?"

Am I all-powerful because I'm the gatekeeper? If I were to infer anything, I'd say I'm the gatekeeper because I'm all-powerful instead of the other way around.

One thing to note that could actually be interesting though is explicitly stating that she's the avatar of pain. Which would imply she's some manifestation, embodiment of pain. This would be the case if it was to be taken literally anyways. But it has interesting implications, such as it could be the reason she's immortal (As avatar's don't typically age or die, though they can if the fiction specifies it). Though I don't think it's literal sadly, though that'd be cool.
 
On the topic of abilities, it looks like Malina does get blood manipulation based on the bad ending with her. To quote the death:

"She made a sweeping motion and a fountain of blood exploded from your devastated throat."
Eh, I'd guess she had a knife. Like every other demon had a knife or a hammer.
 
Took a look at all the death's found a few interesting things.

Now, I'm unsure if this would count as standard equipment, but both Modeus and Zdrada kill the player with a weapon. Or injure them anyway. Modeus breaks Helltaker's leg with a sledgehammer, and Zdrada stabs the player in the ribs with a knife. I'll put the quote here.

Zdrada Bad Ending: "Your vision swam. The last thing you noticed was a knife buried hilt deep between your ribs."

Cerberus potentially has something interesting. Her cuteness gave The Helltaker a heart attack, but I don't know if this would just be a weakness of The Helltaker, or some ability of Cerberus:

Cerberus Bad Ending: "They jumped you like rabid dogs. Canine sounds included. The cuteness of it all gave you a heart attack."

I would assume that if it were an ability of Cerberus, it would be biological manipulation?
 
Eh, I'd guess she had a knife. Like every other demon had a knife or a hammer.
I think it would've been noted if that were the case. Only some of the demons appeared to have weapons, which ironically I just mentioned after you had written this. Plus of course Judgement, but her weapons are magical in nature.

You've got demons who don't have weapons like Lucifer who has hax, Cerberus, and Beezlebub. Given she just made a sweeping hand motion and magically made a fountain of blood come from their neck. Which usually, if your neck were cut, it wouldn't explode into a fountain of blood.
 
Oh, forgot one thing, since I've forgot to screen it. Judgement said about Helltaker's sins are what chains made of. If chains are made each time for different people, and not made of "generic" sins, it would give Reactive Power Level.
 
Alright, here's a rough draft.


It can probably be "Possibly Bio Manip" but I think there is a different ability for it, may be wrong.
Draft looks good. One thing I noticed is Judgement seems to have flight. During one of the scenes, she flew into the air and was surrounded by some illuminated circle that appeared several times in the game IIRC. I'll look through the blog in more detail and comment to question something if needed.
It can probably be "Possibly Bio Manip" but I think there is a different ability for it, may be wrong.
Might be a different ability for it. I'll probably look through the abilities pages later.
Oh, forgot one thing, since I've forgot to screen it. Judgement said about Helltaker's sins are what chains made of. If chains are made each time for different people, and not made of "generic" sins, it would give Reactive Power Level.
I saw that, but I didn't take it literally, I thought it was more metaphorical. But under the guise that it's true, I don't think it would be reactive power level, because it's merely made out of said sins, not powered by it. The chain's composition is sins, it doesn't gain power from sins.
 
Alright, going to cover what's on the blog for the most part it seems good. So I'll just skip over the ones that seem self-explanatory.
Azazel - survives daily assasination attempts (here), additional proof for superiority over other demons. (Maybe At least 9-B..?)
It would probably be better if we had more context behind the attempts. Because I think this could just imply a resistance to her hax since Lucy seemed kind of reliant on hax such as death manipulation and transmutation. Game was kind of vague on if she were also physically strong (Though all Demons should obviously upscale from The Helltaker). Possible she tried to kill her physically, kinda wish the game went more in-depth about that though. Like did Loremaster have equipment? Or that giant mech she used against The Helltaker to stop her? Bodyguards? Oh well, it can at least serve as supplementary material. But yea, assuming she upscales from Demons, she'd have at least 9-B (9-A now since my calc got accepted) since even the lower demons are at least 9-A for easily killing The Helltaker who's 9-B (9-A).

Part of the reason I don't believe she's actually above other demons casually like Lucifer and Justice is because in the art book it stated it took her a long time to take over hell, and it wasn't nearly as easy as she said, and she lost both arms trying to conquer it:
ec9.png

I feel their victory/triumph over demon stemmed from their tech/intelligence, but the game's so vague on this that it's hard to come to a perfect conclusion.
Social Influencing for Azazel (here)) - Convinced Subject 667 to eat a pie and talk despite him being focused on nothing but killing her. A bit obscure though, I suppose.
This one I disagree with. Loremaster (Or Azazel, though I think we should make separate keys for the two) was stated to have implemented a contingency inside of Subject 67 when creating him that gave him a weakness to pie just in case he went out of control:

Page4b.webp

"Loremaster programmed a major flaw into his conditioning - he's completely mollified by apple pies."

With mollifying meaning: "appease the anger or anxiety of (someone)." or "reduce the severity of (something); soften."

Which I guess can play more into her biological manipulation.
Magic for Judgement (here) - Looks like magic, functions... probably like chain summoning or technology manipulation (to start the machine again).
Completely agree. I put it in her profile as weapon control, which is a more recent addition to the powers and abilities page. It's basically a limited version of telekinesis for characters who can specifically only manipulate a specific weapon and summon said specific weapons. Fits her power pretty well since she can both summon and control chains. Unsure about her starting the machine with technopathy since how it's started is vague. But it could probably work as a possibly rating?

While I'm talking about her chains, would it fit the Danmaku category? It doesn't seem like enough projectiles based on the page description for Danmaku, but she does use a lot.
Dimensional Travel for Azazel (here, here) - can travel and teleport people to Heaven.
Are Heaven and Hell confirmed dimensions? This could potentially just be teleportation as opposed to dimensional travel.
Probably Healing for Judgement (1st, 2nd) - okay, hear me out. We all saw it. Helltaker died when he walked through the gates... yet he didn't. Context wise, I believe it is at least Possibly Healing.
I had planned to add this to the profile yesterday. But it's likely not healing, rather, full-on resurrection. You got the same bad ending screen as when you died in every other ending, and it was stated The Helltaker's flesh was burned off. Then she brings him back to torture him more.
Biological Manipulation for Azazel (here) - can create Subject..s.
Would it be considered limited biological manipulation? Seeing as they require technology and prep time as opposed to just magically manipulating the biology of someone or something. Or would it still be considered flat-out biological manipulation?
 
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If we assumed every arbitrarily old character was immortal we'd also have a lot of characters with immortality. We'd basically be giving the reasoning

"Immortality (They're really old)"

as evidence. Which doesn't seem right at all. It's usually blatant if someone's immortal because there's a statement or some other sources that confirm it. If they are simply really old, they could just have longevity. We can't just arbitrarily assume immortality. Honestly, if there are pages where characters have immortality just due to being arbitrarily old without any more evidence should lose immortality. Like what, are we going to give Freeza immortality since they haven't appeared to age since before Goku was born?
Really, you used Frieze as an example... Frieza himself confirmed it, he doesn't eternal life nor youth & still does age(tho adimitly slowly).
We know justice sealed Beezlbub away, though we don't know any of the specifics at all. We do know that's how she lost her sight though. Which could also be caused by disease, but again, we know so little about that, it's not like we could use it as solid proof of resistance.
We don't how she lost her eyesight either. Disease Manip is a passive ability to Beel, a resistance would be required in a serious fight outside of the Abyss.
How do we know Justice is the oldest (Excluding Beel and Lucy)? I don't recall that really being stated anywhere. As far as I recall, we just know every demon is younger than Lucifer and Beezlebub
Judgement is Justice's replacement making Justice at least older than than Judgement.
They could have abilities unique to their race, but why would we assume that? Are we also going to assume every demon has Lucifer's death manipulation and transmutation? Or Malina's blood manipulation? etc?

Its clear Demons can have unique abilities or properties. It gets even more confusing when you realize several of said demons used to be angels (I.e. Lucifer, Judgement, and Azazel).
Sorry but when did i ever try to scale every ability to every demon? Magic is a dispiline, therefore magic users usually don't have the same powerset(Vanripperart
said in a stream that demons have limited magic). Eternal Life is related to anatomy which can be a race thing.
It's possible it's unique to her because of her role, but the mention of it when including her job description doesn't imply it originates from said job.

It would be like me saying: "Am I not the all-powerful gatekeeper?"

Am I all-powerful because I'm the gatekeeper? If I were to infer anything, I'd say I'm the gatekeeper because I'm all-powerful instead of the other way around.

One thing to note that could actually be interesting though is explicitly stating that she's the avatar of pain. Which would imply she's some manifestation, embodiment of pain. This would be the case if it was to be taken literally anyways. But it has interesting implications, such as it could be the reason she's immortal (As avatar's don't typically age or die, though they can if the fiction specifies it). Though I don't think it's literal sadly, though that'd be cool.
Nope it doesn't originate from her job. It's a requirement to have these before getting job; being immortal, powerful & violent; meaning there can be other demons that meet these requirements to have gotten this job before her.

Depends on the verse on the mortality or not of the Avatar/Personification. You're gonna need more proof to give that kind of power to her. For all we know she could've said it as a hyperbole to sound more intimidating.
 
Really, you used Frieze as an example... Frieza himself confirmed it, he doesn't eternal life nor youth & still does age(tho adimitly slowly).
Yes, he's not actually immortal, but it was a random example of why we shouldn't consider everyone who's old immortal simply for the fact they're old.
We don't how she lost her eyesight either. Disease Manip is a passive ability to Beel, a resistance would be required in a serious fight outside of the Abyss.
It would certainly help if we had the specifics of that fight, but I will say this, the range of her passive dissease manipulation doesn't seem all that great. It wasn't affecting The Helltaker when he was standing outside the portal looking at Beezlebub and it was only after he entered and got closed that it seemed to affect them (Albeit I can't remember after how much time). Heck, maybe Justice was affected by the disease but was cured (As we don't know the specifics of the fight). I think better proof would be that at some point Beezlebub was part of the Demon's community in some way, and for them to be around her at all (Assuming it's always on and she can't control it) they'd need resistance to diseases.
Judgement is Justice's replacement making Justice at least older than than Judgement.
Being the replacement of someone doesn't require you to be younger. Rather more well-suited for the job. For example, the next president won't always be younger than the last. Given Justice had gone blind, and Judgement's arsenal is crazy (Borderline the strongest demon in terms of overall arsenal or even raw power when you account for abilities) it's no wonder they'd be good for the job as opposed to a demon who had gone blind (Speaking of which, assuming they got a profile, though they seem to lack abilities, would they get enhanced senses, they seem to have a good grasp of their surroundings despite their blindness).
Sorry but when did i ever try to scale every ability to every demon? Magic is a dispiline, therefore magic users usually don't have the same powerset(Vanripperart
said in a stream that demons have limited magic). Eternal Life is related to anatomy which can be a race thing.
Magic's not always a discipline. Depending on the verse it can also be biological, with each character possessing their own unique traits (Think of it like My Hero Academia, but instead it revolves around magical aspects). In the same vein, immortality can fit into that. Heck, even in real life there are some people who have different traits from the kind either due to evolutions or other biological anomalies. My problem doesn't stem with the evidence being wrong, mind you. Just that it isn't concrete such as Vanripper just stating Demons are immortal. I think it could work as supplementary evidence, but supplemental material by itself isn't very strong when not backed up with definitive/solid material. I think we can argue Immortality in a CRT, but as a likely rating, as opposed to full-on saying they all have immortality no questions asked.
Nope it doesn't originate from her job. It's a requirement to have these before getting job; being immortal, powerful & violent; meaning there can be other demons that meet these requirements to have gotten this job before her.
Incorrect. It was never stated to have been a requirement. All she says is: "You'd share roof with an immortal avatar of pain"


She merely brought up the fact she was immortal. That doesn't mean it's a prerequisite for her job.

Here's another thing, when Judgement started the job, she also wasn't violent. It's said so in her character bio in the artbook. It says she's the nicest demon, and that because of this it was very troublesome when she first became the High Prosecutor, and because of the job, she had to develop a new personality to be more well suited for it. With the description implying she was terrible for the role, but progressively became well suited for it over time. So being violent also isn't a prerequisite of it for that matter.
Depends on the verse on the mortality or not of the Avatar/Personification. You're gonna need more proof to give that kind of power to her. For all we know she could've said it as a hyperbole to sound more intimidating.
I think it wasn't meant to be literal. I think that's just how she describes her job. Because well... that's a good description. If your job is torturing the sinful, calling yourself the avatar of pain. As your job is quite literally to bring pain to people (Or in her case Demons and people). I just thought it seemed interesting if we took it as literal as it has pretty cool implications (I'm biased since Judgement is best girl 👀)
 
Maybe then we'll finally see what's up with Judgment & the other demons. I'm gonna respond later about the other comment
I hope Judgement's just chilling out and did like nothing, not gonna lie. Kinda evil, but they seemed to be a neutral character to begin with.
 
I hope Judgement's just chilling out and did like nothing, not gonna lie. Kinda evil, but they seemed to be a neutral character to begin with.
True, she's in the neutral spectrum. But i'm betting she wouldn't let Loremaster invade without a fierce fight. I'm wonder did Helltaker ever manage to escape the Abyss?
 
True, she's in the neutral spectrum. But i'm betting she wouldn't let Loremaster invade without a fierce fight. I'm wonder did Helltaker ever manage to escape the Abyss?
The thing is, I don't think Judgement would care if they invaded. I mean, by the time they initially went back to hell, it's possible they were still Azazel, but assuming they weren't, Judgement only really cares about torturing the sinful. I don't think they'd care much if Loremaster tried to overthrow Hell's leader anyways since Judgement has expressed that she believes herself to be more important and easily ignore her orders without hesitation. It'd likely only be a problem if Loremaster directly tried to attack Judgement. And I can't in any world see based on the info we have now imagine Judgement losing against Loremaster. I do view Judgement as like the most competent or even powerful Demon after all. Like if they did fight, I imagine Lore Master giving up on her since she's neutral or something (Heck, could even be the person who made her lose bother her arms).
I'm wonder did Helltaker ever manage to escape the Abyss?
I don't think that's the canon ending of the game to be fair. Like at best, I thought it was like an alternate canon/universe in the series. I just figured the demons eventually just went back to hell without him.
 
Oh, before I forget. Would Judgement's attack speed with the chains also scale to reactions? Not combat speed, but reactions since she seems to be able to control them well enough mid-flight to wrap up foes with the chain? And, while it wasn't explicit, the other Demons seemed to be able to process what was happening. I'm not exactly sure how reactions work on the wiki, as it appears to be for situations in which a person makes a short movement to dodge something, so I figured it'd be best to bring it up here. It shouldn't scale to combat speed is all I know. Doesn't really have a reason to.
 
Abyss should be canon. It is the only ending that makes sense with Lucy's statement in the DLC. Otherwise she'd said not "wonder how's he these days" but something similar to original ending "his life was short and full of suffering".

Does anyone have by any chance all comics piled up in one place?
 
Abyss should be canon. It is the only ending that makes sense with Lucy's statement in the DLC. Otherwise she'd said not "wonder how's he these days" but something similar to original ending "his life was short and full of suffering".
Her wondering how he is doesn't equate to him haven gone into the abyss. If he's simply on Earth, and she's in hell for a quote en quote long time, then it's not much of a surprise that she'd be wondering how he's doing. There's also the fact the comics for Helltaker from all I've seen all take place after the normal ending of the game. I think there's maybe one comic with Beezlebub and Helltaker?

It doesn't help that the narration of his life being short and full of suffering is from Beezlebub who isn't a perfect narrator (I could be wrong about this as I haven't looked at the ending in a little bit)

Another possible outcome is that he did die, and she's wondering what he's doing as he's dead.

Edit: I looked into it. She didn't say his life was short. She said it was sure to be sure to be short and full of suffering. Ignoring the fact she's not omniscient, she's also biased against the other demons as evidenced in the normal ending of the game. Her words there aren't absolute truth, but speculation on her part, likely derived from her hate against the other demons and believing them to be ruthless and vicious (Which to an extent they are, but we've seen they can have a normal functional life)
Does anyone have by any chance all comics piled up in one place?
You can read several of them on the Helltaker wiki. But they're missing several. You'd probably have to dig through vanripper's twitter.
 
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For anyone interested, I calc'd another of Judgement's feats that would upgrade her speed (Her physical speed, not her chains). Puts her a little over 5x faster than the feat The Helltaker scales to.
 
From the looks of it, changes that involve bettering the format of pages are usually okay to add even without a CRT. It's when you get to bigger changes like changing a character's statistics, etc. that a CRT is required. So I think it'd be fine if I added a calculation section to the page of all currently accepted calc's. In fact, based on the verse formatting page, it seems preferred to have one.
 
Read most comics on my language, looks promising.

It appears that normal and abyss endings are indeed different timelines, although it is unknown where DLC is in here.

I'll try digging trough twitter (ugh) to find images in english.

Looks good.
 
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