Hazbin Hotel FTL Addition

[SomebodyData]

Well, I can agree that Emily's feat is the only one that appears legitimate, not because the rest are outliers but because they have other problems with them.

Now, determining if Emily's feat is an outlier, can I be provided the closest speed feat aside from the ones already discounted in the thread?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well, I can agree that Emily's feat is the only one that appears legitimate, not because the rest are outliers but because they have other problems with them.

Now, determining if Emily's feat is an outlier, can I be provided the closest speed feat aside from the ones already discounted in the thread?

Uh... Mach 4? I could be wrong though.

 

[ShionAH]

Shion, we are on page 3. Because there was actual contentions here.

Reaper, I don’t give a shit about the half assed comments here that were already debunked compared to the actual arguments that staff accepted previously in the CRT to downgrade the feat. Thats my main priority since its more important and simply the reason why we lack FTL.

 

[ShionAH]

Now, determining if Emily's feat is an outlier, can I be provided the closest speed feat aside from the ones already discounted in the thread?

Alastor has scaling to MoL so 1.7c

Why is Stolas feat not counting? It was only removed because its an outlier. Otherwise there wasn’t any problems with it

 

[DaReaperMan]

Alastor has scaling to MoL so 1.7c

As in, other feats. You know, characters pulling FTL shit. Not a character looking up after a beam had already passed.

Reaper, I don’t give a shit about the half assed comments here that were already debunked compared to the actual arguments that staff accepted previously in the CRT to downgrade the feat. Thats my main priority since its more important and simply the reason why we lack FTL.

Why is Stolas feat not counting? It was only removed because its an outlier. Otherwise there wasn’t any problems with it

You see, this is the funny part ShionAH, because there was an entire debate SomebodyData just read (I know because a couple of my comments got liked) that went into debunking the Stolas feat. For the greatly summarized reasons I just gave

 

[SomebodyData]

Alastor has scaling to MoL so 1.7c

Why is Stolas feat not counting? It was only removed because its an outlier. Otherwise there wasn’t any problems with it

I meant is there another calculation / feat, instead of scaling? (although that is good supporting evidence if taken at face value)

Stolas' feat happened off-screen no? It can be considered weak supporting evidence but not much more unfortunately.

 

[ShionAH]

I meant is there another calculation / feat, instead of scaling? (although that is good supporting evidence if taken at face value)

No we only have 2 feats and three scalings for FTL with no cap of speed or any actual antifeats other than maybe IMPs who are already fodder in verse.

Stolas' feat happened off-screen no? It can be considered weak supporting evidence but not much more unfortunately.

Not really? He goes from Point A to Point B almost instantly, we don't see him fly I guess but he still travels that distance very quickly which is whats calculated. Why would this be "weak" supporting evidence at all. Its a feat, thats calculated and was only removed because its an "outlier" which we know doesn't hold true anymore now we have Emilys feat and Alastors scaling.

 

[SomebodyData]

No we only have 2 feats and three scalings for FTL with no cap of speed or any actual antifeats other than maybe IMPs who are already fodder in verse.

Not really? He goes from Point A to Point B almost instantly, we don't see him fly I guess but he still travels that distance very quickly which is whats calculated. Why would this be "weak" supporting evidence at all. Its a feat, thats calculated and was only removed because its an "outlier" which we know doesn't hold true anymore now we have Emilys feat and Alastors scaling.

The problem with Stolas' feat is that it was off-screen with 0 confirmation that it was flight, rather than portal creation or teleportation.

It might have been removed for being an outlier but presently it has the issues above to contend with.

 

[ShionAH]

The problem with Stolas' feat is that it was off-screen with 0 confirmation that it was flight, rather than portal creation or teleportation.

We literally see him fly all the way there, so the most straight forward assumption would be that he flew back the same way and not an one off ability that he hasn't even shown yet

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Why is Stolas feat not counting? It was only removed because its an outlier. Otherwise there wasn’t any problems with it

We literally see him fly all the way there, so the most straight forward assumption would be that he flew back the same way and not an one off ability that he hasn't even shown yet

Dude, why are you lying? The argument is literally that it makes no sense that St*las flew that distance, POV which is the portal explicitly shows no Stolas there. Like, I don’t mind the support of FTL but such rudeness and twist of narrative is completely unnecessary.

For the reference, here is my arg:

Okay let me repeat what I said here on St0l@s' feat:

The feat is interpreted in the blog like this: since we see Stolas in 2:18 on the Moon and then we see him back at his house near portal at 2:26, he flew from Moon to portal in 8 seconds. Except… he didn’t. His voice sounds the same throughout 2:18-2:26, but if he flew during that time, it would have been silent and becoming louder while he was flying. Secondly, we should have actually seen him flying or getting into the portal, since camera’s POV is a bit behind the portal. Yet he doesn’t come into his house, he is already there.
Thus the correct interpretation as it stands is that at 2:18 Stolas is at the Moon, then there was a timeskip in which Stolas flew back, then at 2:19 till 2:26 we are shown what happened after Stolas flew back. Otherwise the scene doesn’t make much sense physically.

That bird has no horse in FTL args.

Also, given this:

snip

What do you think of my argument?

 

[ShionAH]

Your argument is ******* voice and sounds not getting louder?? Are you serious? Literally I dont even know how to respond to such comment, I will assume its a joke or trolling. Because I think you are smart enough to know how shitty that point is

And no, Stolas had already flown to the Portal thats why we don’t see him until the camera fully shows the entrance where he is at otherwise we see he flies there and obviously the most basic assumption is that he flew back

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

what happened to the Baxter thing?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Your argument is ******* voice and sounds not getting louder?? Are you serious?

Conveniently ignoring the main point and going for the supportive is just dishonest.

And no, Stolas had already flown to the Portal thats why we don’t see him until the camera fully shows the entrance where he is at otherwise we see he flies there and obviously the most basic assumption is that he flew back

So you just conceded and agreed with my view? Thanks I guess. My entire point is that flight did indeed happen, but it was offscreen, so the timeframe is unknown. By the time it switches from St*las to showing solar system getting nuked, St*las has already gotten into portal and is singing from there. The timeframe in the blog is therefore wrong and cannot be calculated.

 

[ShionAH]

Conveniently ignoring the main point and going for the supportive is just dishonest.

I… literally responded to your main point. And no thats not dishonest at all since thats not supportive at all and quite repulsive

So you just conceded and agreed with my view? Thanks I guess.

Strawman

My entire point is that flight did indeed happen, but it was offscreen, so the timeframe is unknown. By the time it switches from St*las to showing solar system getting nuked, St*las has already gotten into portal and is singing from there. The timeframe in the blog is therefore wrong and cannot be calculated.

Exactly, we see exactly when the system starts exploding from the collision and exactly in that moment Stolas appears away at the Portal. So the Timeframe is known.

Repeating it. We see when he is on the moon near the star and then we see when he is at the portal. Lowball it to when we see him. Done.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I… literally responded to your main point.

Main point is that he didn’t enter portal. Same sound is just supportive he is already in the house and is not moving.

Strawman

No.

Exactly, we see exactly when the system starts exploding from the collision and exactly in that moment Stolas appears away at the Portal. So the Timeframe is known.

Repeating it. We see when he is on the moon near the star and then we see when he is at the portal. Lowball it to when we see him. Done.

Except it contradicts your own logic. You concede that the reason we don’t see him flying towards portal during solar system collapse despite it being portal’s pov is because he is already in the house. If he is, he wasn’t flying during that timeframe. The flight happened during the timeskip between him being on the Moon and solar system collapse scene.

 

[ShionAH]

Main point is that he didn’t enter portal. Same sound is just supportive he is already in the house and is not moving.

Its a song

No.

Yes.

Except it contradicts your own logic. You concede that the reason we don’t see him flying towards portal during solar system collapse despite it being portal’s pov is because he is already in the house. If he is, he wasn’t flying during that timeframe. The flight happened during the timeskip between him being on the Moon and solar system collapse scene.

No. Stolas is on the moon, the collapsing happens and Stolas flies away from the moon then we see him in the portal afterwards. So he flew during the collapse to the portal, because he was there right before the collapse and then he appears later on in the portal meaning he wasn’t there the entire time

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

what happened to the Baxter thing?

Forgotten, as usual...

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Without a calc for the Emily feat why are we assuming she's the same exact speed?

She could be faster, she could be slower, there's no calc so we don't even know

 

[ShionAH]

Without a calc for the Emily feat why are we assuming she's the same exact speed?

She could be faster, she could be slower, there's no calc so we don't even know

Its because she is blatantly faster, she literally outflies it and then reacts to it point blank

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Its because she is blatantly faster, she literally outflies it and then reacts to it point blank

Than calc it

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Because she both had to fly a shorter distance than the beam had to travel and didn't actually react to the beam

 

[DaReaperMan]

Than calc it

Calc stacking.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

Than calc it

That would be calc stacking; we simply can't do it. What we can do (and what we did previously) is say that it has at least a speed comparable to that of the beam.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Then the feat isn't valid

or you can just use light speed for the beam

 

[DaReaperMan]

Then the feat isn't valid

or you can just use light speed for the beam

Bro never heard of scaling

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Bro never heard of scaling

She's explicitly slower than it, she doesn't scale at all other than being several times slower

 

[DaReaperMan]

She's explicitly slower than it, she doesn't scale at all other than being several times slower

Guess Vox just has such dogshit aim that he only tagged her wing. Instead of her, ya know, moving.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

The beam was fired from hundreds of meters away, unless you can prove that Emily ALSO moved hundreds of meters in that timeframe then the feat is invalid

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

She's explicitly slower than it, she doesn't scale at all other than being several times slower

No, she isn't explicitly slower than the beam.

She moved less than the beam until she reached Alastor, but the beam was fired before she even started moving towards it, and she arrived with a significant advantage.

Furthermore, she turned around when the beam was close to hitting her, and unless she has level 5 durability for just one of her wings to be severely injured by a beam wielding the power of a seraphim far more powerful than her, she also had to partially dodge to avoid being hit directly.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Furthermore, she turned around when the beam was close to hitting her, and unless she has level 5 durability for just one of her wings to be severely injured by a beam wielding the power of a seraphim far more powerful than her, she also had to partially dodge to avoid being hit directly.

She clearly wasn't fully in the attack area of the beam, she and Alastor had already gotten several feet away, plus that scene is a jump cut, and not to mention it still wouldnt be as fast as the beam itself

And... partially dodge? you can't scale someone to an attack if they PARTIALLY dodge it, that's like saying someone took a bullet to the shoulder instead of the chest so they scale to transonic

 

[ShionAH]

And... partially dodge? you can't scale someone to an attack if they PARTIALLY dodge it, that's like saying someone took a bullet to the shoulder instead of the chest so they scale to transonic

Hey, if you shoot from 10 meters. And I move out of my way from 5 meters to a friend who's stuck, pull them out, push them away and then turn around only for your bullet to still not land and graze me. I am not slower than the bullet.

Learn how to scale then speak.

I can't believe I have to deal with stuff like this for such a straight forward CRT, this wiki's dead

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

The problem with Stolas' feat is that it was off-screen with 0 confirmation that it was flight, rather than portal creation or teleportation.

It might have been removed for being an outlier but presently it has the issues above to contend with.

Yes, Stolas created a portal to get out of there, a portal 5.2623e+9m from the Star where he was practically on the surface.

And about teleportation, Stolas used it once in the series, on another character (Blitzø) in this scene:



It has a characteristic sound and effect that are not indicated in the lullaby scene, and is only shown 14 episodes later.

That's why people like me and Orange still consider flying to be the most concrete assumption, regardless of the precise time for the event to occur.

Well, I can agree that Emily's feat is the only one that appears legitimate, not because the rest are outliers but because they have other problems with them.

Now, determining if Emily's feat is an outlier, can I be provided the closest speed feat aside from the ones already discounted in the thread?

The main objective of this discussion, created by Shion, is to highlight that the currently accepted speeds for the universe are not a limiting factor for the scale, so both weapons and characters can be moving faster than the speed of realistic weapons and what the series' frame rate shows.

The weapons of hell, although functioning similarly, are made of different materials than conventional weapons from the mortal world, which already have feats exceeding those of real-world weapons, such as destroying walls (6:35), entire large windows (6:39), and part of trees (8:24, 8:47, and 8:54).

[Link to YouTube video: ]

Damn Google for removing the clip function from YouTube.

Lightning bolts can be faster than regular lightning bolts if they have more energy, and speed feats on screen (using frame rate) are generally already done with minimum values.

We also have Baxter's feat, a physically much weaker character having a feat greater than most of the current conservative scale in the verse.

Overall, the question is whether Emily reacting to MoL with (or without, depending on your interpretation) Stolas and Baxter's feats as support is concrete enough to sustain a scale for part of the verse, or if it's still better to use the more conservative scale for now.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

I can't believe I have to deal with stuff like this for such a straight forward CRT, this wiki's dead

Calm down, Shion, it's normal to have some divisions in an feat that was accomplished in a somewhat confusing way.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

She clearly wasn't fully in the attack area of the beam, she and Alastor had already gotten several feet away, plus that scene is a jump cut, and not to mention it still wouldnt be as fast as the beam itself

The location of Emilly, Alastor, and Charlie in relation to MoL is quite confusing at this point, so we can't accurately measure the distance moved by each one, but we know enough for at least Emilly to have a comparable flight speed, around the speed of MoL.

After pulling Alastor out of Shok.wav's mouth, Emilly moved a few meters to the side, which was clearly not enough to dodge MoL's overloaded beam, capable of creating giant holes in buildings due to its diameter. To give the benefit of the doubt, the scene where Emilly turns the lighting indicates that it's not centered directly on the beam, but we don't know exactly how much.

The point is that, however confusing this feat may be, it shows us enough to make a speed comparison.

 

[Mythic381]

Without a calc for the Emily feat why are we assuming she's the same exact speed?

She could be faster, she could be slower, there's no calc so we don't even know

What? So if I outran someone, that means I'm not faster than them, because there's no calculation saying I'm faster? What?

We literally see Emily flying to Alastor and reaching him before the beam by a long shot, pull him from Shok.Wav, and then turn around to find it has reached her.

It took her off-guard as she was focused on saving Alastor.

Then the feat isn't valid

How exactly? calc stacking doesn't invalidate Emily clearly outspeeding the beam. She'd still scale to it. That's what scaling is.

or you can just use light speed for the beam

No? There's lightspeed guidelines in this wiki. It doesn't follow them.

The beam was fired from hundreds of meters away, unless you can prove that Emily ALSO moved hundreds of meters in that timeframe then the feat is invalid

Prove it was "fired from hundreds of meters away" when it was fired before her. Light would take 334 nanoseconds to cross one hundred meters, so it would've reached Alastor in seconds, so the fact Emily still moved faster despite the fact it was shot before she flew proves a lot.

I think you're underestimating how fast light really is.

She clearly wasn't fully in the attack area of the beam, she and Alastor had already gotten several feet away, plus that scene is a jump cut, and not to mention it still wouldnt be as fast as the beam itself

She wasn't in the full area of the attack because she moved away when she pulled Alastor. That's why only her wings got hit.

And... partially dodge? you can't scale someone to an attack if they PARTIALLY dodge it, that's like saying someone took a bullet to the shoulder instead of the chest so they scale to transonic

I'll let Shion's reply speak for this.

Hey, if you shoot from 10 meters. And I move out of my way from 5 meters to a friend who's stuck, pull them out, push them away and then turn around only for your bullet to still not land and graze me. I am not slower than the bullet.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Hey, if you shoot from 10 meters. And I move out of my way from 5 meters to a friend who's stuck, pull them out, push them away and then turn around only for your bullet to still not land and graze me. I am not slower than the bullet.

And if they did it from 100 meters away and you moved 10 meters, it wouldn't be as impressive now



We don't know how far Emily was from the laser but it was MUCH closer than the laser was from Alastor

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Actually nah, on rewatch she doesn't react at all, it blitzes her and the laser isn't even in the frame until after she already reached Alastor

 

[Rogue_Forge]

At best she might have FTL flight speed but she looked directly at the beam (that she is supposedly as fast as) and doesn't dodge it? when its several meters away?

 

[ShionAH]

isn't even in the frame until after she already reached Alastor

Exactly. Emily flew fast enough to reach Alastor way before Might of Lilith can.

 

[OiEuSouDuvi]

At best she might have FTL flight speed but she looked directly at the beam (that she is supposedly as fast as) and doesn't dodge it? when its several meters away?

Emilly is able to react while flying in the scene, so it wouldn't make a big difference.

It's also worth mentioning that Emily went to save Alastor and was focused on that; she may simply not have noticed the beam properly until it got close to her, or she may have underestimated its speed, which makes sense given her expression before being hit while holding Alastor.

That is, if Emilly didn't partially dodge the beam at point-blank range only to be hit in the wing, which in my opinion may have happened.