Hax treatement in the wiki

[The_Causality]

Well, it's a problem people's encountered in this thread, it's a minor problem but causes a lot of discussion, Basically, that's about how we treat an hax in profiles, to simplify, a Characters with Existence Erasure can affect Laws, should we treat this as Existence Erasure which can erase laws or a form of Law Manipulation due to "affecting" the laws by erasing them?

This problem is mostly due to how we treat Conceptual Manipulation, basically, Characters that can erase Concepts have Conceptual Manipulation instead of probably just an EE which work on Concept, just like we doesn't treat a characters that can Erase fire having Fire Manipulation

For now, we have a kind of "Double standart".

 

[DarkGrath]

Hmm...

Existence Erasure has always been a bit of a vague term, but it almost always seems to refer to the ability to erase something physical from existence, or at best something along the lines of a Soul. This is vastly oversimplified, of course, but would the actual ability apply when erasing completely abstract concepts like Laws? Even if it did, it would create a great deal of confusion on their profile as that kind of Existence Erasure likely isn't combat applicable.

I'm unsure if there is already any particular consensus on how to treat it, but assuming there isn't, I believe erasing Laws/Concepts should be considered Law and Concept Manipulation respectively, rather than a form of EE.

 

[Antvasima]

You should probably ask Sera EX, Assaltwaffle, and Kaltias to comment here,

 

[DarkGrath]

I'll handle that.

 

[The_Causality]

I've do it for Kalt and Sera, you can do it for Assalt.

 

[DarkGrath]

Gotcha. Already sent one to Sera, oops.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[Wokistan]

I would list both myself. I have a character who can kill things like concepts with their death manip and put both down for that, because both things are innuse.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Both.

 

[Antoniofer]

It depends how broad its the user ability: he could have Concept Manipulation that allows it to erase concepts, or it have a EE powers that work at a metaphysical level that allows it to erase even concepts.

 

[Sera_EX]

Erasing laws is not EE, not in the slightest. EE is basically "erasing beings/things" without a trace. A law is not a "thing" unless specified otherwise in verse. It'd be Law Manipulation, possibly even an offesnive Resistance to Law Manipulation but not EE.

Though, best case scenario would be to list both but in a limited sense ala Limited Existence Erasure + Law Manipulation and describe the effect (erasing laws from existence).

For P and A, rather than thinking about what they used, think about how they used it. That will narrow it down to the specifics 9/10.

 

[Wokistan]

I think it depends whether it's done with their preexisting EE. If they just erase a law it might be better suited to just law, but if they do it with their EE that they already have to do other stuff with, it would fall under both. Like with The Daughters of Oryx for example, their death manipulation is the same ability that destroys concepts. There's no reason to be like "this isn't death manipulation because it destroyed a concept" when it explicitly is, and I'd think that applies to EE too.

 

[Sera_EX]

Yeah, that's fine.

 

[The_Causality]

Thanks you for all your answers, that's really appreciated.

 

[Sera_EX]

You're welcome.

 

[Antoniofer]

@Sera, welp, the EE page writes that powerful enough users can erase concepts, so using EE to erase a law, physical or not, is factible.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Thank you for helping out.