Hatred - Darth Maul vs Adam Taurus

[Shadowbokunohero]

That works better, why didn't you just give this instead of the Vader one Ovens?

he might be thinking of Rebels Maul who does scale to this Vader.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

The Vader feat is more impressive even if you divide it by 3.

 

[Scottycj256]

even when considering Adam's massive skill advantage compared to Darth Maul, the fact that Darth Maul has access to ez GG precog as well as Force Choke means im inclined to vote him over Adam

another factor is Adam's semblance being charge dependent

 

[DaReaperMan]

The Vader feat is more impressive even if you divide it by 3.

But Maul doesn't scale to Vader in first key, he does in second key, obviously.

Regardless at this point I think just about every argument has been exhausted from both sides, voting can probably begin, but just one more thing

even when considering Adam's massive skill advantage compared to Darth Maul, the fact that Darth Maul has access to ez GG precog means im inclined to vote him over Adam

Final battle on Tatooine ***** all over Maul managing to precog much besides a projectile, amazing as that fight is, I could ****** analyze that fight for awhile, but it is against Maul here.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Final battle on Tatooine ***** all over Maul managing to precog much besides a projectile, amazing as that fight is, I could ****** analyze that fight for awhile, but it is against Maul here.

no the tatooine fight isnt an Anti feat, he was literally lost in the desert for days with no water and on the brink of collapse.

 

[DaReaperMan]

no the tatooine fight isnt an Anti feat, he was literally lost in the desert for days with no water and on the brink of collapse.

And since when has exhaustion gotten in the way of force precognition working? Just cause you might be slower then normal doesn't mean your precognition doesn't work to know a Saber butt would be a bad idea

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

And since when has exhaustion gotten in the way of force precognition working? Just cause you might be slower then normal doesn't mean your precognition doesn't work to know a Saber butt would be a bad idea

The Force Requires concentration, also being blinded by hatred dulls the senses as well.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The Force Requires concentration, also being blinded by hatred dulls the senses as well.

looks at Maul literally strategizing against Kenobi's style before the fight

I don't think he wasn't concentrated there.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Maul on Tatooine was tired and using the Force to keep himself alive so he can get to Obi-Wan. The latter on the other hand was well rested up till the point Maul met him and changed his entire fighting style to Qui-Gon's more effective stance. Maul was very clearly at a disadvantage and even if we assume he was at peak form, Qui-Gon's style counters Maul as you've stated earlier.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Adam's blade still melts upon contact with Maul's lightsaber.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Maul on Tatooine was tired and using the Force to keep himself alive so he can get to Obi-Wan. The latter on the other hand was well rested up till the point Maul met him and changed his entire fighting style to Qui-Gon's more effective stance. Maul was very clearly at a disadvantage and even if we assume he was at peak form, Qui-Gon's style counters Maul as you've stated earlier.

Using one application of the force doesn't mean Maul couldn't use any other application, let alone a basic one.

Uh, Qui-Gon was beaten because he was having stamina problems and the precise Saber butt Maul tried against Obi-Wan catching Qui-Gon and stunning him, letting Maul get the final hit in.

Adam's blade still melts upon contact with Maul's lightsaber.

Via heat so it won't cut Adam with his Aura

 

[ShivaShakti]

Aura does not extend to weaponry. Adam shattered Blake's weapon, and her Aura was still present. Yang as well still held an active aura, yet there is visible cuts on her prosthetic arm.

 

[Scottycj256]

funny how he posts a supposed anti-feat for Darth Maul despite all of the specific circumstances surrounding said feat, and yet goes "Aura surrounds the weapon" despite the fight between Yang and Blake vs Adam having multiple anti-feats against "aura surrounds the weapon"

 

[TheRustyOne]

Adam's blade still melts upon contact with Maul's lightsaber.

Maul stomps then?

Adam is basically powerless without a blade.

 

[Scottycj256]

yeppers

 

[TheRustyOne]

Aura is stated to cover weapons, but if there are feats/showing that it isn't the case, than actual showings take precedent over statements.

Adam's Moonslice is capable of breaking through Aura, without... breaking the Aura. Aura break should just be called Aura drain. It is possible for a strong enough hit to just go through a person's Aura. It was stated in the Volume 3 Commentary that Adam's Moonslice went straight through Yang's Aura.

Which is why she still had Aura on her stump after being cut. He didn't drain her Aura, his attack was so strong that it went through. So it is possible that Adam's attacks which broke Blake's Weapon and scratched Yang's arm were just so strong that the broke through their Aura.

Both were Moonslice to my knowledge. Note: I could be 100% wrong about everything I said, I'm just going off my bad memory so take it all with a grain of salt. Unless something is actually confirmed by someone.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Aura is stated to cover weapons, but if there are feats/showing that it isn't the case, than actual showings take precedent over statements.

Adam's Moonslice is capable of breaking through Aura, without... breaking the Aura. Aura break should just be called Aura drain. It is possible for a strong enough hit to just go through a person's Aura. It was stated in the Volume 3 Commentary that Adam's Moonslice went straight through Yang's Aura.

Which is why she still had Aura on her stump after being cut. He didn't drain her Aura, his attack was so strong that it went through. So it is possible that Adam's attacks which broke Blake's Weapon and scratched Yang's arm were just so strong that the broke through their Aura.

Both were Moonslice to my knowledge. Note: I could be 100% wrong about everything I said, I'm just going off my bad memory so take it all with a grain of salt. Unless something is actually confirmed by someone.

I find the conception that "Powerful attacks may negate Aura" to be inconsistent?

Yang's semblance functions quite similarly to Moonslice, yet her strikes don't appear to phase through aura.

 

[Scottycj256]

I find the conception that "Powerful attacks may negate Aura" to be inconsistent?

Yang's semblance functions quite similarly to Moonslice, yet her strikes don't appear to phase through aura.

in fact i think it is stated that Burn and Moonslice are exactly the same in principle, despite Yang's strikes hitting Aura rather than bypassing it, thus contradicting the whole "powerful strikes negate aura" claim

 

[Scottycj256]

imo the reason isnt in-verse, it has more to do with the fact that the writers don't know what the **** they're doing, leading to extreme inconsistencies, like the insane skill scaling chain that this verse has thanks to the novels

making statements about the abilities of characters and then having the plot show the opposite isnt a money issue, its a writing issue, which RWBY has far more of than money issues

 

[Scottycj256]

the staff COULD pump as much money as they want into RWBY actually being a good show, but they decide not to because of stupid reasons like keeping up the appearance of a web show at the cost of its quality. RWBY and RvB both made RT enough money to expand them into a whole ass corporation, and yet they dont use their funds to actually make their shows good in order to rake in even more money, and it painfully shows in the inconsistencies present in RWBY, in both writing and in visuals

 

[ShivaShakti]

"Maul wins via quality" is combat applicable perhaps?

 

[Scottycj256]

LMAO

 

[TheRustyOne]

This is why I stopped taking part of RWBY on this wiki. It's demoralizing to work on something you like, when everyone around you just seems to want to talk crap about it.

This is a versus thread, why the do people have to insult another series for no reason? Did I provoke you, did I say something that made it seem like I was being antagonistic?

My apologies if I offended you in any way.

 

[Scottycj256]

it's fun scaling the verse, but its so painful thinking about the series itself, and all of the missteps snowballing into what it is today

if Rooster Teeth actually worked like a normal entertainment studio and invested more into its products for higher payout, i probably would be singing the praises about how amazing RWBY is, but sadly that isnt the case. what's even sadder is the fact that they do exactly that for ******* gen:LOCK. They put in professional quality work not for RWBY, but for whole ass generic Gundam ripoff gen:LOCK. which makes me even more confused as to how they ****** up RWBY

 

[Scottycj256]

alas, consistent showings in the V3 Cinder fight, V6 Adam fight, and the V8 Cinder fight make it perfectly clear that, in spite of WoG, Aura does not actually cover their weapons, so Maul stomps Adam gg

 

[Spinoirr]

Aura is stated to cover weapons, but if there are feats/showing that it isn't the case, than actual showings take precedent over statements.

Adam's Moonslice is capable of breaking through Aura, without... breaking the Aura. Aura break should just be called Aura drain. It is possible for a strong enough hit to just go through a person's Aura. It was stated in the Volume 3 Commentary that Adam's Moonslice went straight through Yang's Aura.

Which is why she still had Aura on her stump after being cut. He didn't drain her Aura, his attack was so strong that it went through. So it is possible that Adam's attacks which broke Blake's Weapon and scratched Yang's arm were just so strong that the broke through their Aura.

Both were Moonslice to my knowledge. Note: I could be 100% wrong about everything I said, I'm just going off my bad memory so take it all with a grain of salt. Unless something is actually confirmed by someone.

Yeah it broke though their aura without breaking their aura

Seems to be a something that only happens if a attack is stronger then their aura

 

[Spinoirr]

alas, consistent showings in the V3 Cinder fight, V6 Adam fight, and the V8 Cinder fight make it perfectly clear that, in spite of WoG, Aura does not actually cover their weapons, so Maul stomps Adam gg

Ah yes, two fights with a tier 7 maiden fighting high 8-C huntsmen and one fight with an amp capable of oneshotting clean through people's aura. That's not proof that aura doeant cover weapons, its proof that a high enough gap in ap can bypass aura entirely. And it's not just from Word of God, its stated outright in the show multiple times.

It's just a strong enough attack can break their weapons despite being covered in aura via a attack that is way too strong for their aura's to block

The fact that they get broken by people who ap stomp them isnt proof that aura doesnt cover their weapons its proof that a high enough ap gap can just nope aura entirely which is already shown consistently throughout the entire series

 

[ShivaShakti]

Ah yes, two fights with a tier 7 maiden fighting high 8-C huntsmen and one fight with an amp capable of oneshotting clean through people's aura. That's not proof that aura doeant cover weapons, its proof that a high enough gap in ap can bypass aura entirely. And it's not just from Word of God, its stated outright in the show multiple times.

It's just a strong enough attack can break their weapons despite being covered in aura via a attack that is way too strong for their aura's to block

The fact that they get broken by people who ap stomp them isnt proof that aura doesnt cover their weapons its proof that a high enough ap gap can just nope aura entirely which is already shown consistently throughout the entire series

I believe actual evidence in the form of statements is required, if you wish for this to not be disregarded as headcanon.

 

[Spinoirr]

I believe actual evidence in the form of statements is required, if you wish for this to not be disregarded as headcanon.

"It was stated in the Volume 3 Commentary that Adam's Moonslice went straight through Yang's Aura."

Why can't it be the same for weapons if it can cut their arm off clean through their aura's

 

[Spinoirr]

"I believe actual evidence in the form of statements is required, if you wish for this to not be disregarded as headcanon."



Aura depicted a covering the weapon as well as the user



"All of our tools and equipment are conduits for Aura."

"I find the conception that "Powerful attacks may negate Aura" to be inconsistent?

Yang's semblance functions quite similarly to Moonslice, yet her strikes don't appear to phase through aura."

Its not inconsistnt at all, Yang does the exact same thing, hell in that fight she literally oneshot Adam through his Aura and did so hard enough to outright shatter it completely, the only difference is Adam's attack is bladed whereas Yang's is blunt force, the mechanics are the same but the application is different

Also



Yang (Who is High 8-C in this fight) activates Burn indicating that her Aura is up, Adam (Who is 8-A in this fight) uses Moonslice and cuts her arm off in spite of this

 

[Harith0cell]

Maul fra

 

[ShivaShakti]

I'm afraid i'm still not convinced.

I see no explicit statements which affirm anything. "Our tools and equipment are conduits for aura" may contain multiple meanings, due to a lack of further elaboration. One could argue she is referring the capability of weaponry or dust to be incorporated in the context of semblances (Which we witness often)

The Aura extending to the silhouette's weapon isn't convincing, due to the nature of the visual style.

Yang's attack did not phase through Adam's aura, we see it shatter and dissipate, so that isn't true.

In regard to the animators stating "Moonslice went through her aura". This could insinuate that Moonslice simply shattered her Aura, not that it the attack was so potent that it phased through her aura. Or it could insinuate that if it did phase through her aura, that it is an ability unique to Moonslice.

I'm afraid there is nothing which renders the assertion unequivocal.

 

[Spinoirr]

"I see no explicit statements which affirm anything. "Our tools and equipment are conduits for aura" may contain multiple meanings, due to a lack of further elaboration. One could argue she is referring the capability of weaponry or dust to be incorporated in the context of semblances (Which we witness often)"

Despite no one using Dust at any point in the scene, meaning youre making a massive assumption that holds no bearing on anything that we are shown as at no point in the discussion does she ever even bring up Dust or semblances.

"The Aura extending to the silhouette's weapon isn't convincing, due to the nature of the visual style."

Hate to break it to you but nitpicking the art style isnt an argument.

"In regard to the animators stating "Moonslice went through her aura". This could insinuate that Moonslice simply shattered her Aura, not that it the attack was so potent that it phased through her aura. Or it could insinuate that if it did phase through her aura, that it is an ability unique to Moonslice."

Except it visibly didnt break her aura, it just cut through it. It didnt phase through anything, it damaged her aura to the point of making a gap in it through which he was able to cut Yang without her aura fully breaking. And its definitely not a unique ability as there are numerous instances of attacks that are massively stronger than the people theyre hitting just cutting right through the user's aura without breaking it outright.

"I'm afraid there is nothing which renders the assertion unequivocal."

That is a matter of your opinion, which unfortunately contradicts everything that is stated or shown throughout the entire series. Aura covers weapons. This is an indisputable fact. If aura wasnt able to extend to weapons, all of the user's weapons would be viable to break in use as they'd all be High 8-C in durability while being wielded by 8-As.

Hell, this argument doesnt even make sense in the context of Adam, his semblance literally functions by absorbing damage through the aura that covers his sword and works on the same mechanics as Yang'ss semblance that absorbs energy through her aura. If aura didnt cover his weapon his semblance wouldnt even work.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Despite no one using Dust at any point in the scene, meaning youre making a massive assumption that holds no bearing on anything that we are shown as at no point in the discussion does she ever even bring up Dust or semblances.

Semblances directly correlate to aura, and she says "our equipment" not solely "our weaponry", which would naturally encompass dust as that is equipment which is quite standard within RWBY.

Hate to break it to you but nitpicking the art style isnt an argument.

Hate to break it to you, but saying "The aura covers the entire silhouette" isn't an argument. That scene is depicted within a different artstyle to the series itself, and within the typical artstyle, we do not see Aura extend to weaponry as it does here.

Except it visibly didnt break her aura, it just cut through it. It didnt phase through anything, it damaged her aura to the point of making a gap in it through which he was able to cut Yang without her aura fully breaking. And its definitely not a unique ability as there are numerous instances of attacks that are massively stronger than the people theyre hitting just cutting right through the user's aura without breaking it outright.

These are assumptions, and of course we are not able to discern the actual dissipation of the aura itself, as the scene shifts artstyles right as her arm is severed.

That is a matter of your opinion, which unfortunately contradicts everything that is stated or shown throughout the entire series. Aura covers weapons. This is an indisputable fact. If aura wasnt able to extend to weapons, all of the user's weapons would be viable to break in use as they'd all be High 8-C in durability while being wielded by 8-As.

Hell, this argument doesnt even make sense in the context of Adam, his semblance literally functions by absorbing damage through the aura that covers his sword and works on the same mechanics as Yang'ss semblance that absorbs energy through her aura. If aura didnt cover his weapon his semblance wouldnt even work.

I have contradicted nothing, you have simply given nothing explicit, and your argument depends upon assumptions. Furthermore, if Aura applies to weapons, then do show me a scene where aura begins to diminish as Weapons contact eachother.

In fact, in this compilation of scenes where aura is shattered, there is not a single scene where we see aura dissipate from their weaponry, so the visual depiction contradicts this assertion further. I'm afraid this sounds like headcanon.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'm so sorry that the aura breaking animation doesn't fit your needs, would you like an animation of amazing quality?

This, Shiva, is what we call in the business "in denial." Why does Aura cover Yang's prosthetic arm? Oh, sorry, doesn't align with your headcanon? Well why does it cover Tyrian's weapons and Prosthetic Tail? How about Ironwood's body and gun?

 

[ShivaShakti]

I'm so sorry that the aura breaking animation doesn't fit your needs, would you like an animation of amazing quality?

This, Shiva, is what we call in the business "in denial." Why does Aura cover Yang's prosthetic arm? Oh, sorry, doesn't align with your headcanon? Well why does it cover Tyrian's weapons and Prosthetic Tail? How about Ironwood's body and gun?

I'm not the one who is in denial. And you should perhaps refrain from condescension. It does not aid you.

The above objects you mentioned (Such as Prosthetics), are attached to the body, and Tyrian's glaives are mounted on his wrists. Of course since the aura is intended to be filtered over the body, the animators depict it in that manner. In fact this even present here, where we may see that the Aura encases Cinder's Grimm Arm, despite the fact that it has been established it is incapable of generating Aura. It appears as though the animators simply do not exclude portions of the body which would not generate aura. You'll need to send in image of aura encompassing Ironwood's gun however.

However I have yet to witness Aura extending to weaponry beyond these factors.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Maul fra

 

[Scottycj256]

oh shit grace already

 

[Scottycj256]

7 in favor of Maul (8 i guess if Sir Ovens counts as supporting Maul)

3 ish in favor of Adam?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I made the theead, don't count me in.