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Hat Kid Intel Upgrade

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Bump, for further evidence, let's look at the explanation for Supergenius rq:
"Supergenius: The highest level of non-omniscient intellect, possessed by those individuals with unfathomably superhuman intelligence and usually extensive mastery of most, or all, branches of science. Characters of such a scale tend to be super scientists capable of creating impossibly advanced physics-defying and reality-warping fantasy technology even with just household items, and outsmarting even other extremely intelligent individuals. Supergeniuses can often easily process calculations beyond modern humanity's combined capabilities on their own, and quickly come up with extremely complex plans."

Hat Kid's spaceship with the collpasing dimensional system is made out of "space-resistant wood" she made herself:


Along with making glass capable of completely withstanding comets.

Mind you from what's described by the name of her ship this isn't her first model.
 
After looking over some of these feats, I think Supergenius might be applicable.
 
My apologies for reopening this thread, but that is nowhere near enough to qualify for a Supergenius intelligence rating. She would have to be able to warp reality virtually any way that she wants with her inventions.
 
Antvasima said:
My apologies for reopening this thread, but that is nowhere near enough to qualify for a Supergenius intelligence rating. She would have to be able to warp reality virtually any way that she wants with her inventions.
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The direct quote I provided says she collapses dimensions to bring alternate universe friends of her to hang out, that sounds like what you're saying.
 
No. It is not enough demonstrated variation to her intellectual abilities. Extraordinary genius characters can also be capable of visiting already existing alternative realities, or transporting people there to themselves, for example.
 
Antvasima said:
No. It is not enough demonstrated variation to her intellectual abilities. Extraordinary genius characters can also be capable of visiting already existing alternative realities, or transporting people there to themselves, for example.
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With just household equipment like wood? If so, Supergenius intel rating needs to be further elaborated on cause she's not doing this with super advanced equipment, her ship is literally made out of wood.
 
The end result is what matters in this case, not whether or not the narrative is a bit sillier than usual.
 
Antvasima said:
The end result is what matters in this case, not whether or not the narrative is a bit sillier than usual.
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But your supergenius page literally states and I quote, "Characters of such a scale tend to be super scientists capable of creating impossibly advanced physics-defying and reality-warping fantasy technology even with just household item" so either the term needs to be revamped or re-worded or Hat Kid qualifies for this, otherwise I don't see what you're saying here that denies her Supergenius intel.
 
That is not enough. I think that the page also says that they need to have demonstrated great versality in warping reality as they wish with their inventions.
 
Antvasima said:
That is not enough.
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How is that not enough? That's the direct quote from the Supergenius requirement.


Antvasima said:
I think that the page also says that they need to have demonstrated great versality in warping reality as they wish with their inventions.
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It never says that "The highest level of non-omniscient intellect, possessed by those individuals with unfathomably superhuman intelligence and usually extensive mastery of most, or all, branches of science. Characters of such a scale tend to be super scientists capable of creating impossibly advanced physics-defying and reality-warping fantasy technology even with just household items, and outsmarting even other extremely intelligent individuals. Supergeniuses can often easily process calculations beyond modern humanity's combined capabilities on their own, and quickly come up with extremely complex plans."

It just says advanced physics defying and reality warping technology with household items, both of which fall under what Hat Kid did, she's built a ship that runs on temporal energy (the time pieces), which detect signals across areas along with a dimensional transporter that collapses dimensions, and this isn't even for some serious thing, it's just so she can hang out with alternate versions of her, so I am extremely confused how this is not enough.
 
It is just a single invention, and the focus should be on the very diverse wide range of extremely powerful reality-warping technology. We have consistently placed similar or more extreme cases in the extraordinary genius category. My apologies.
 
That said, perhaps this needs to be better clarified in the intelligence page.
 
Antvasima said:
It is just a single invention, and the focus should be on the very diverse wide range of extremely powerful reality-warping technology. We have consistently placed similar or more extreme cases in the extraordinary genius category. My apologies.
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Why does a single invention negate the fact that she is capable of doing this? It's not like this was a hard invention to make for her or something similar, it was a simple invention made out of space resistant wood, and would her ship (which from the name of it, she's made at least 14 of these), that uses temporal energy not further support this? What's the similar or more extreme cases? It seems like they should be upgraded if this is the case since they fit the description there. I remember specifically in the recent Mario thread that other verses having something shouldn't be a reason for downgrade or upgrade of a specific character.
 
Well, we had a long discussion regarding that Rick from Rick and Morty doesn't quite qualify for example.

Basically, all that Hat Kid did was construct an interdimensional portal for her alternative selves. This is just medium level extraordinary genius level. My apologies, but the supergenius rating should only be handed out under very expclusive circumstances, and it would set an extremely bad precedent to hand it out for just something like this. It was not vast reality-warping feats of extreme diversity or somesuch, just a single feat that likely does not even qualify for this scale on its own, much less the variety factor.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, we had a long discussion regarding that Rick from Rick and Morty doesn't quite qualify for example.

Basically, all that Hat Kid did was construct an interdimensional portal for her alternative selves. This is just medium level extraordinary genius level. My apologies, but the supergenius rating should only be handed out under very expclusive circumstances, and it would set an extremely bad precedent to hand it out for just something like this. It was not vast reality-warping feats of extreme diversity or somesuch, just a single feat that likely does not even qualify for this scale on its own, much less the variety factor.
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Can I get a link to this thread?
Hell, if we're going to use examples Lucca is labeled as Supergenius and her reasons are around the same calibur.

Out of household materials which falls under the requirement of Supergenius, I don't see anywhere on the intelligence page where it says this what an extraordinary genius can do, hell let me quote what Extraordinary Genius says:
"Extraordinary Genius: Individuals whose knowledge spreads over many fields of science and who vastly surpass the intellects of the smartest humans on Earth. At this level, many are capable of creating futuristic technology, executing complex strategies even under high pressure, and potentially even accurately predicting the future through sheer mental calculations, or outperforming supercomputers. This is where super scientists of exceptional scientific knowledge begin to appear."
All this states is they can create futuristic technology, not physics defying technology or reality warping tech. So to say this is "medium level extraordinary genius" isn't even supported by extraordinary genius' definition. Especially when nothing here describes you make it with regular household equipment. How is it not a vast reality warping feat? It directly explains it collapses dimensions just so she can hang out with alternate universe characters.

You also ignored the second part where she's made a ship that runs on temporal energy from the time pieces.
 
I think that it was a thread from during the 6 month wiki lockdown, so it would take long time that I do not have available to find the backup.

Anyway, I am not doing this to be mean or out of bias, or anything like that. It is just that we tend to be very restrictive with this particular statistic. It usually requires mindboggling versatility and/or enormous scale in the reality-warping department, and we cannot make exceptions in this regard, as it would set a very bad precedent that would make it far too easy to gain access to. My apologies.

If necessary, I could try to better clarify this in the intelligence page.
 
Antvasima said:
I think that it was a thread from during the 6 month wiki lockdown, so it would take long time that I do not have available to find the backup.

Anyway, I am not doing this to be mean or out of bias, or anything like that. It is just that we tend to be very restrictive with this particular statistic. It usually requires mindboggling versatility and/or enormous scale in the reality-warping department, and we cannot make exceptions in this regard, as it would set a very bad precedent that would make it far too easy to gain access to. My apologies.

If necessary, I could try to better clarify this in the intelligence page.
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Well I decided to look through threads myself and I found you saying here Rick does qualify for supergenius, so now I'm confused:

I tried to look at other threads and the only one I found was a really old thread in which you agreed Rick should be supergenius, I'm assuming you're arguing standards have changed but I'd like to see anything regarding this.

Nowhere did I claim you did this out of bias or to be mean but I am still irregardless going to call out the inconsistencies with what you're saying and what the page represents. The restrictive nature doesn't seem to make sense at all with Hat Kid's reason, her reasons go far beyond extraordinary genius' requirements which is simply futuristic tech, I don't see how this would be "far too easy to gain" if Hat Kid gives it. Can you tell me a list of people that have made from simple household reality warping equipment off the top of your head that aren't already labeled at supergenius? Cause your page seems to imply Hat Kid meets the requirement just fine, she goes right under the definition. My apologies, but I cannot back down when the only real reason I'm being given is "This would set a bad precedent" cause I genuinely don't see what bad precedent this sets or how many cases are even remotely similar to Hat Kid's. Hat Kid's was looking through obscure background information to find too.
 
We had a later discussion in which we decided that Rick's inventions were not quite extremely powerful enough to qualify.

In any case, I do not see any examples of Hat Kid having unfathomably superhuman intelligence that allows her to freely warp reality, as the intelligence page standards are at least intended to require. Creating a portal to alternative timelines or creatig a regular time machine just go under regular sci-fi futuristic technology, i.e. extraordinary genius.

Again, I can slightly clarify our intelligence page definitions if necessary.
 
Antvasima said:
We had a later discussion in which we decided that Rick's inventions were not quite extremely powerful enough to qualify.

In any case, I do not see any examples of Hat Kid having unfathomably superhuman intelligence that allows her to freely warp reality, as the intelligence page standards are at least intended to require. Creating a portal to alternative timelines or creatig a regular time machine just go under regular sci-fi futuristic technology, i.e. extraordinary genius.

Again, I can slightly clarify our intelligence page definitions if necessary.
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Where was this intended at all on the page? I've linked examples that show other things?

How is a time machine not physics defying and reality warping? This goes against the definition of a time machine. She doesn't create portals either, at least from what's shown.
 
A time machine is just standard futuristic technology, not something that creates customised universes according to specific wishes, a massive wide diversity of ridiculously advanced equipment, or can overpower tier 1 cosmic entities.

Again, I wrote our standards regarding this, so I know what was intended. If they need to be better clarified, I can do that, but we will not loosen our restrictions under any circumstances. Supergenius is intended to be kept very exclusive, period.

I am very tired, and would appreciate if you permanently drop this issue, as it will not accomplish anything anyway.
 
Antvasima said:
A time machine is just standard futuristic technology, not something that creates customised universes according to specific wishes, a massive wide diversity of ridiculously advanced equipment, or can overpower tier 1 cosmic entities.

Again, I wrote our standards regarding this, so I know what was intended. If they need to be better clarified, I can do that, but we will not loosen our restrictions under any circumstances. Supergenius is intended to be kept very exclusive, period.

I am very tired, and would appreciate if you permanently drop this issue, as it will not accomplish anything anyway.
Click to expand...
Nowhere on supergenius does it say it requires the first two, it says physics defying and reality warping, both of which a time machine falls under, these other requirements just sound like a case by case basis of what a physics defying and reality warping object can do, not the requirement.

The updated standards or original? Cause it seems you agreed to characters like Rick getting it. I don't see how this is loosening your restrictions at all, I even asked you who falls under Hat Kid's definition at the moment that would suddenly get upgraded due to her.

Don't see why I need to drop the issue I haven't really gotten a satisfying answer and when I ask for the specific thread that parallels the thoughts of supergenius I don't get it due to it taking too long or something like that. Then when I look for myself, I see you directly saying Rick qualifies for Supergenius.
 
Again, I know what was intended when I wrote the intelligence definitions, and supergenius is strictly supposed to be listed for characters that can basically warp reality as they wish with their inventions in massive scale manners, or even overpower tier 1 entities with their technology for higher cases. Simply defying the laws of physics with futuristic technology is extremely common for extraordinary geniuses as well.

I am willing to try to better clarify the standards in our intelligence page, to avoid future misunderstandings, but will not budge regarding that it would be destructive for the wiki structure to significantly loosen them to the point that there almost is no difference between extraordinary genius and supergenius stature. My apologies, but this is not going to be accepted, and I would appreciate if we can close this thread soon.
 
It would be better to have a thread to update Intelligence descriptions tho.
 
Wait, if that's dimensional thing can merge universes wouldn't that technically made hat kid 2B(Another curiousity from me, 2B because multiplayer is active only for 50 players meaning 50 dimensions together, and to consider dimensions as universes because the context likely meant about universes.)?
 
It would be very destructive for the wiki to wipe out most of the distinction between extraordinary genius and supergenius, so this is not getting accepted no matter what, but as I mentioned, I can clarify the definitions that I wrote if necessary.
 
Oleggator said:
Wait, if that's dimensional thing can merge universes wouldn't that technically made hat kid 2B(Another curiousity from me, 2B because multiplayer is active only for 50 players meaning 50 dimensions together, and to consider dimensions as universes because the context likely meant about universes.)?
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As far as I have understood, it simply transports versions from other universes to each other, which is an extraordinary genius level feat.
 
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but if using a statement given by giver of the peace, I feel It's more like mixing, then transportation.
 
YuriAkuto said:
It would be better to have a thread to update Intelligence descriptions tho.
Click to expand...
This^

As of right now the page is completely confusing and inconsistent with Ant's description of Supergenius, as his implies a far higher bound and not the baseline requirement.
 
Oleggator said:
Wait, if that's dimensional thing can merge universes wouldn't that technically made hat kid 2B(Another curiousity from me, 2B because multiplayer is active only for 50 players meaning 50 dimensions together, and to consider dimensions as universes because the context likely meant about universes.)?
Click to expand...
It's via tech that's on her ship, so it wouldn't really constitute an upgrade. Also 50 dimensions would be 2-C, realistically what the context implies is a pokemon like deal where every game is an alt universe and it's sold a million copies but idk if that'll be accepted and again, it's just tech on the ship that she doesn't even carry around with herself.
 
Antvasima said:
As far as I have understood, it simply transports versions from other universes to each other, which is an extraordinary genius level feat.
Click to expand...
It collapses dimensions together so she can bring in alt universe people, think of a stacking pyramid. It's a tier 2 feat, just not at all applicable to her statistics since it's via a random piece of equipment she never brings with her on her ship.
 
I do not think that a thread is necessary. I just need to better clarify what I originally wrote there to be consistent with the intentions behind it.

Anyway, can somebody please clarify if she actually merged 50 universes to a single unit, or just transported alternative versions of herself to the battle, because if she did the former, I would be willing to give her an "At least Extraordinary Genius, possibly Supergenius" rating,
 
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