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Haruhi should get up-grade ?
- Thread starter Mercurius_Faust
- Start date
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- Tags
- haruhi suzumiya
- Status
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No.
What does this mean? How high is this, even if this were viable which it isn't for anything beyond Low 2C, you need to give details.
What does this mean? How high is this, even if this were viable which it isn't for anything beyond Low 2C, you need to give details.
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The scans seem to imply that she can affect the entire multiverse, but can she really. How big is the multiverse?
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Unspecified.
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Or as low as 2-B
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WELL then. This is.... interesting. It very well "may" imply High 1-B , as they mention " plane " like higher-dimensional planes of existence , and don't imply universes in said quote . It may also imply 2-B or 2-A , but like Ant said , we may need to think well about this. But in my opinion, to my unfortunate eyes, this is heavily implying High 1-B as opposed to the other options. I have nothing to say, except for the fact It definitely upgrades her from "normal" tier 2-C Haruhi though at least. Dang... To thnk that someone like her could more than likely get that big of a jump... I need to take a break off of this wikia to think ...
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Well in a case like this it is really hard to be conservative because these planes that supposedly stretch into infinity are stated to be "Time planes" in the exact same panel.
As conservative as I would like to be about this (Because this would be a HUGE upgrade if it would be accepted) the evidence as little as it may be seems to point at High 1-B.
Either that or we count this as an outlier.
As conservative as I would like to be about this (Because this would be a HUGE upgrade if it would be accepted) the evidence as little as it may be seems to point at High 1-B.
Either that or we count this as an outlier.
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I agree.
I also agree Julian. I mean, 2-C to High 1-B is insane. But, at the same time, we can't really downgrade this, even though I really want to be conservative with it. It just points to High 1-B far too much to be ignored.
This I however do not agree on. All of the previous feats are treated as insanely casual. Yasumi did the 2-C feat with an afterthought , so clearly it wasn't her limit. No outliers exists, because she has never shown a set limit before or after this feat.
I also agree Julian. I mean, 2-C to High 1-B is insane. But, at the same time, we can't really downgrade this, even though I really want to be conservative with it. It just points to High 1-B far too much to be ignored.
This I however do not agree on. All of the previous feats are treated as insanely casual. Yasumi did the 2-C feat with an afterthought , so clearly it wasn't her limit. No outliers exists, because she has never shown a set limit before or after this feat.
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Context in needed on this a lot, as well as some explanation in regards to terminology.
For example the time travel devices in Haruhi are called TPDD, which is an abbreviation for Time Plane Destruction Device and supposedly by every use make a hole in the time plane.
What time plane means is hard to tell in that regards. One common model used for timetravel and similar is that a timeline is made up of 3-D planes, which are basically like the frames of a movie. A timeplane could also be something like that.
Haruhi wiki gives following explanation in regards to seemingly the scene in question (from here):
Asahina said that even if he altered the fixed time plane, the future could not change, but Fujiwara said he could use Haruhi's power to do so. "To make the space-time continuum from this time point until the future perfect, I need to completely rewrite it. Not amend the time plane bit by bit, but make an infinitely continuing time plane with every part corrected."
Which seems to support the idea that infinite time planes is only the totality of the space-time continuum.
All in all we need more information.
For example the time travel devices in Haruhi are called TPDD, which is an abbreviation for Time Plane Destruction Device and supposedly by every use make a hole in the time plane.
What time plane means is hard to tell in that regards. One common model used for timetravel and similar is that a timeline is made up of 3-D planes, which are basically like the frames of a movie. A timeplane could also be something like that.
Haruhi wiki gives following explanation in regards to seemingly the scene in question (from here):
Asahina said that even if he altered the fixed time plane, the future could not change, but Fujiwara said he could use Haruhi's power to do so. "To make the space-time continuum from this time point until the future perfect, I need to completely rewrite it. Not amend the time plane bit by bit, but make an infinitely continuing time plane with every part corrected."
Which seems to support the idea that infinite time planes is only the totality of the space-time continuum.
All in all we need more information.
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So infinite time planes would be 2-A instead of High 1-B right???
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Ohhhh okay now I understand what you're talking about. Anyways that means that for now she would remain at 2-C since she already has 2-C feats and a Low 2-C feat would not damage her rating.
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Like i said previously stated, we need more input. However, taking information from just one point , and especially just something based on a model for time travel ( Which may or may not apply here ) honestly isn't enough to downgrade the whole possibility of High 1-B or even 2-A . We need A LOT more inconsistencies to prove that this isn't right. If this is the only one ... Well then, i am sure most know the answer. I am not saying your wrong DontTalk, i am just saying i am not even 50% sure your right either , because their mentioning of time planes and what it is explicitly implying is directly different from what your saying . Time Planes to my knowledge is not a term used often in verses. Time planes can mean quite a lot of things . it could literally mean from dimensional planes to universes with time in it .
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Well, first and formost in order to upgrade her you would need proof that your interpretation is the only correct one, not the other way around. The one demanding upgrades has the burden of proof.
That aside his goal, from what is explained on the wiki, and also from what is said in the scan above ("I could completly reqrite everything from this point into the future") is explicitly to rewrite just the present and future, which would be only one timeline.
From that context it would seem strange for him to mentioned rewriting the multiverse or something bigger if his ambition is just rewriting the timeline.
That aside his goal, from what is explained on the wiki, and also from what is said in the scan above ("I could completly reqrite everything from this point into the future") is explicitly to rewrite just the present and future, which would be only one timeline.
From that context it would seem strange for him to mentioned rewriting the multiverse or something bigger if his ambition is just rewriting the timeline.
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Well DontTalk makes sense. I mean this IS a really big upgrade and we would need more than an ambiguous statement to make such an upgrade.
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I hate arguing for this site to be honest . I do not have evidence, nor am i trying to argue for the upgrade to past. I am simply trying to make sense based on what has been given to me. To me, it feels like i am just playing Devil's Advocate for a side i do not agree with . This is my first time doing this . To me, to say that 2-C stays, you truly need to have explicit proof ( not statements , or an wikia page [ because unless it is sourced, it is just another person writing their interpretation, which can be wrong almost 100% of the time ] , or hunches based on context of the scans ) that it is just that, not your own interpretation of what that means, cause all interpretations will vary either slightly or greatly . Like mentioned above, i am not saying your wrong ( Because what you are saying does make sense to me ) , but i cannot know for sure whether or not you are right . You have been at this much longer than me , but i at least know a few things about debating this sort of topic. This is completely different from anything i have encountered here.
The same quote also explains by correct every plane into infinity when he mentions the rewriting . Exactly what planes are they explicitly mentioning here ? I wouldn't be playing Devil's Advocate if it was just that obvious , but it is not obvious to me . Of course i don't want the upgrade. I thought i made that abundantly clear . It is the equivalent of an average Celestial fighting Eternity and putting up a fight. Of course i beleive it is absurd, but the reason i am not backing down isn't because of personal opinions , is because if possibilities are there , they need to be talked about .
The same quote also explains by correct every plane into infinity when he mentions the rewriting . Exactly what planes are they explicitly mentioning here ? I wouldn't be playing Devil's Advocate if it was just that obvious , but it is not obvious to me . Of course i don't want the upgrade. I thought i made that abundantly clear . It is the equivalent of an average Celestial fighting Eternity and putting up a fight. Of course i beleive it is absurd, but the reason i am not backing down isn't because of personal opinions , is because if possibilities are there , they need to be talked about .
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Bump. I meant to say " side "
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We also would need more clarification on what the time-planes are. When i looked up time-planes , the definition they showed me was compeltely different than what they are implying in the manga scan ."Correcting these time-planes to infinity " implies High 1-B than anything other viable option, as it was never implied to be timelines or anything else within the visual manga ( To be sure there was no contradictions , I read the rest of the visual manga chapter it was on online , nothing implied anything different than my previous point. ) . They keep mentioning time-planes, but not anything about timelines / universes , just implying planes of existence.
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@Antvasima you mean on the Low 2-C thing right???
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[Sigh]
Yet again, both sides clearly make a valid point for the opposite to occur. Please just dont acknowledge only 1 side , because that side is as flawed as the one I am arguing for . He made a point sire ( I even said I agreed ) , but the true hole in both our analyzation . we can't be 100% sure what a time-plane really is, other than implied Higher-Dimensions. That is where we differ in opinion, Ant. That one part of the quote " Correcting every plane to infinity " mplying High 1-B via my reasons before , and even if we include the part of the scan where it mentions the past , present & future portion , why would the correct every time-plane to infinity part be placed there ?
Even in the context of the story, it doesnt make any sense for that part of the quote to be included . If the time-plane were explicitly coirmed to be universe sized , I would ceast. However, he has yet to provide true evidence to counter that being an 100% impossibility that there weren't mentioning it being higher-dimensional, and as long as the possibility is more than 0%, it can still be debated. I made sure to reach the visual novel, 2 chapters before and after the feat in question , none of the implied anything different. We can't apply concepts that aren't there in the first place, hence us cureryently being at an impass.
Yet again, both sides clearly make a valid point for the opposite to occur. Please just dont acknowledge only 1 side , because that side is as flawed as the one I am arguing for . He made a point sire ( I even said I agreed ) , but the true hole in both our analyzation . we can't be 100% sure what a time-plane really is, other than implied Higher-Dimensions. That is where we differ in opinion, Ant. That one part of the quote " Correcting every plane to infinity " mplying High 1-B via my reasons before , and even if we include the part of the scan where it mentions the past , present & future portion , why would the correct every time-plane to infinity part be placed there ?
Even in the context of the story, it doesnt make any sense for that part of the quote to be included . If the time-plane were explicitly coirmed to be universe sized , I would ceast. However, he has yet to provide true evidence to counter that being an 100% impossibility that there weren't mentioning it being higher-dimensional, and as long as the possibility is more than 0%, it can still be debated. I made sure to reach the visual novel, 2 chapters before and after the feat in question , none of the implied anything different. We can't apply concepts that aren't there in the first place, hence us cureryently being at an impass.
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We generally go with the lower assumptions for things like this. Assuming it's higher dimensions is absurd. It's 2-A at best, from what's shown here. It's not impossible that it's higher-dimensional, but it's an absurd assumption to make, and it isn't supported.
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I think 2-A is fine too considering that the statement is a little vague.
And like Prom said It is possible that it is higher dimensional but we need more proof.
And like Prom said It is possible that it is higher dimensional but we need more proof.
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I agree with DontTalk and Prom. 2-A at best.
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Yes, it seems to describe a Low 2-C feat here. 2-A is a fair assumption to make, but doesn't seem to be the case.
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Umm I don't know....do you guys think that a "Possibly 2-A" key should be added to her profile or simply make a note describing this particular panel???
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Can you guys explain to me what a time-plane really meant in this case ? I have been trying to figure it out, and help would be appreciated. I have never come across such a vague term , so I was making guesses based on what it could potentially be. And yes, I am fine with 2-A being the maximum, because I clearly mentioned I was against the upgrade to High 1-B from the get go, before playing Devils Advocate. I was making guesses, okay ? I was confused , and I still am , so I am drawing off of knowledge of things I have seen, and applying it here.
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It just refers to every moment in the universe's spacetime in this context.
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Oh. Okay. Now that it is cleared up, either staying the same or possibly 2-A seems fine,. The reason is because well... That whole scan is really vague, and even if it was Higher-Dimensional , the series as a whole lacks the proof for it to be rated as such.
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Well then if that's the case then the profile should stay the same considering that she already has a feat that puts her at 2-C and a Low 2-C feat would be kind of redundant.
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A Low 2-C feat would just backup her rating.
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Agreed with Julian and Prom. Perhaps now this should be closed ?
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