Hagoromo vs Madara

[Lop222]

He would still be able to use his creation jutsu, which is just spammable Izanagi and Izanami, so Madara can't do a lot to win, at which point he could just seal him.

Hagoromo doesnt have spammable Izanagi and Izanami. you need chakra for izanagi stated by karin. and if hagoromo is out of chakra he cant spam it. it also never confirmed that he actaully has izanagi. only his powers are based on izanagi and thats like saying jiraiya can use rasenshurkin too, since his rasengan is based on that.

 

[IComeInPeace20]

AP wise I feel like Hagoromo is superior in every way. Hear me out on this. Hagoromo claimed Madara was trying to get close to his power, and reach Kaguya's level, when Madara only had 1/2 Rinnegan and 10 tails absorbed. Even if Madara wasn't fully healed, SPSM Naruto without the cloak, was able to speedblitz this Madara and overpower him with Lava Rasenshuriken. After this more dialogue and Madara absorbs the falling Shinju. So now Madara has 1/2 Rinnegan, 10 Tails Absorbed, and Shinju Tree Absorbed. Rinnegan Sasuke was STILL able to speedblitz and cut this Madara in half.

It seems Hagoromo was overestimating Madara when he made that statement about Madara's power. Maybe he meant Madara had the potential to reach Hagoromo level. Madara then gains other Rinnegan from Obito increasing his power even more. But Sasuke nor Naruto are bothered or worried about Madara Power now that he has both Rinnegan. Madara summons meteors ? Duo casually destroy them. Madara summons a handful of clones ? Taken care of by a handful of Naruto clones. Madara seemed to be running away rushing to use IT after he got other Rinnegan. But in character Madara almost always likes a good fight.

Madara was getting overwhelmed and countered by teen SPSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke. While Naruto didn't even use all his powers like 1,000 clone spam, super Rasenshuriken which alters 10 Tails jinchurikis chakra turning them into the 10 Tails physical form (in Kaguya case rabbit monster), Kurama being able to draw large amounts of chakra in mins to put him on the level of "sage of six paths" as Kurama words stated.

Just too much for Madara to deal with. Naruto and Sasuke are like half the power of Hagoromo. Of course Hagoromo wrecks 10 times outta 10 since he has 100% of the duo. Plus people forget Hagoromo fought Prime Kaguya. The version that created multiple planets not even needing allied shinobi chakra, and who is probably leagues above Revived Kaguya, who Sasuke stated was in another league than Madara. And not saying Hamura didn't play a huge part as well in taking down Prime Kaguya, but the anime shows ya that Hamura is not on the same level of Hagoromo at all.

Prime Kaguya ETSB > Prime Kaguya > Revived Kaguya ETSB > Hagoromo = Naruto + Sasuke > Revived Kaguya > Dual Eyes Madara, Teen SPSM Naruto > Teen Rinnegan Sasuke > 1/2 Rinnegan Madara W. Shinju

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Hagoromo claimed Madara was trying to get close to his power, and reach Kaguya's level

Don't want to bug in the duscussion but Pre Shinjuu Madara was stated to get close to Hags power and trying to reach Kaguya. He wasn't trying to close to Hags. He actually was getting close to him.

 

[AstralKing7]

Is means the same thing as trying in that context.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Is means the same thing as trying in that context.

Disagree. Since the trying part was used for Kaguya. Getting close alone means that he is really around that realm of power.

 

[IComeInPeace20]

Don't want to bug in the duscussion but Pre Shinjuu Madara was stated to get close to Hags power and trying to reach Kaguya. He wasn't trying to close to Hags. He actually was getting close to him.


But Feats show otherwise. TBH "close" could mean anywhere from 10% - 50%, We really don't know. But since this statement was made when Madara only had 1/2 Rinnegan and 10 tails, I seriously question Hagoromo's statement of Madara getting "close" to his power.

This same Madara was overwhelmed by base SPSM Naruto without cloak, and after Shinju was absorbed Madara was still sliced in half and blitzed by Rinnegan Sasuke. So a version of Madara that Hagoromo said was getting "close" to his power got a even bigger boost after god tree absorption, but this amp was still not enough to be superior to Rinnegan Sasuke or SPSM Naruto.

So even with a amp Of Shinju Tree which had absorbed countless chakra with Obito, was still getting beat by two beings who only have 50% of Hagoromo full power each + their own added powers like EMS, and Kurama.

If Madara was actually anywhere near Hagoromo full power he wouldn't of struggled so much with Naruto and Sasuke.

The story implies they are at least in same realm of power after Madara gets his second eye, as Naruto clones are able to match the limbo clones, and counter all of his meteors. Sasuke said Kaguya was in another realm of power than Madara, and Naruto sliced off her arm, while Kaguya had to dodge sasuke's Chidori in her dimension. Just saying feats >> statments, especially in this case