Gyarados vs Kaido

[theultimate5105]

A battle of the "dragons"
Kaido is in Dragon form
Speed not equal
Gyarados starts in base but will mega evolve as soon as it can
High 7-A battle
Kaido: 0
Gyarados: 0
Incon:

 

[KingTempest]

Thunder Bagua (electric fighting type) with a speed advantage after he Mega Evolves and that's gg.

 

[theultimate5105]

Thunder Bagua (electric fighting type) with a speed advantage after he Mega Evolves and that's gg.

Kaido doesn't really have a speed advantage they are around equal and they both upscale off of the calcs actually gyarados has the advantage with speed lowering
also Intimidate makes kaidos power 66% of normal and Mega Gyarados only has a 2x weakness to electric (also this is dragon form so he only has it with his breath and Thunder Bagua is not martial arts which Gyarados is weak against)

 

[Waka1979]

Gyarados dragon dances until he stomps/blitzes

 

[KingTempest]

Kaido doesn't really have a speed advantage they are around equal and they both upscale off of the calcs

Kaido >>> Post WCI Snakeman Luffy >> Katakuri ~ Pre WCI Gear Fourth Luffy >>> Doflamingo > Jozu ≥ Aokiji ~ No Light Kizaru ~ Marco > .57c.
Gyrados > .53c
So Kaido goes off a long scaling chain which is above what Gyrados is, not to mention that Gyrados has no speed scaling chain.

Electric Fighting Thunder Bagua is a simple wincon.

 

[KingTempest]

Gyarados dragon dances until he stomps/blitzes

Kaido blitzes off the bat, that simple.

Just spamming Thunder Bagua by itself does him dirty.

Kaido can hit people with future sight precognition, you really think Gyarados, who is slower, is doing anything?

 

[theultimate5105]

Kaido >>> Post WCI Snakeman Luffy >> Katakuri ~ Pre WCI Gear Fourth Luffy >>> Doflamingo > Jozu ≥ Aokiji ~ No Light Kizaru ~ Marco > .57c.
Gyrados > .53c
So Kaido goes off a long scaling chain which is above what Gyrados is, not to mention that Gyrados has no speed scaling chain.

Electric Fighting Thunder Bagua is a simple wincon.

Mega Gyarados>Regular Megas>Base Gyarados>.53c
Gyarados also has multiple things to reduce speed and AP and can buff his own
it would not be fighting type which usually refers to martial arts it would just be electric which gets passivly reduced by intimidate
and again this is dragon form not human form

 

[Waka1979]

Kaido blitzes off the bat, that simple.

Just spamming Thunder Bagua by itself does him dirty.

Kaido can hit people with future sight precognition, you really think Gyarados, who is slower, is doing anything?

If the speed gap is that big then speed should be equalized

 

[theultimate5105]

If the speed gap is that big then speed should be equalized

Its not big its .04c when both are >.5c

 

[KingTempest]

Mega Gyarados>Regular Megas>Base Gyarados>.53c

That's fair, but Kaido's scaling chain still starts at a higher value and goes out longer.

Gyarados also has multiple things to reduce speed and AP and can buff his own

From what I know, it's not passive (it doesn't work unconsciously) which means that Kaido can still attack and harm him w/ attacks prior.
If Gyarados starts the match off buffing himself while Kaido starts the match attacking him, he's gonna be in pain. Kaido can take stupid amounts of damage too, so AP amps would be effective if he spams Dragon Dance for a good minute.

it would not be fighting type which usually refers to martial arts it would just be electric which gets passivly reduced by intimidate
and again this is dragon form not human form

Is Kaido limited to Dragon Form? If he is, then he can roar in his dragon form as well which produces lightning.

Also, how is Gyarados stopping conqueror's haki? It works specifically well on wild animals (Gyrados). That's also a wincon.

 

[Waka1979]

Two questions

1. How is Mega Gyarados faster than other Megas? Last I recall all non legendary megas were considered more or less equal.

2. How good is Kaido's precognition?

 

[KingTempest]

2. How good is Kaido's precognition?

Kaido hasn't been confirmed precog yet but he's blitzed people faster than Gyarados with precog.

 

[theultimate5105]

That's fair, but Kaido's scaling chain still starts at a higher value and goes out longer.


From what I know, it's not passive (it doesn't work unconsciously) which means that Kaido can still attack and harm him w/ attacks prior.
If Gyarados starts the match off buffing himself while Kaido starts the match attacking him, he's gonna be in pain. Kaido can take stupid amounts of damage too, so AP amps would be effective if he spams Dragon Dance for a good minute.

Is Kaido limited to Dragon Form? If he is, then he can roar in his dragon form as well which produces lightning.

Also, how is Gyarados stopping conqueror's haki? It works specifically well on wild animals (Gyrados). That's also a wincon.

The scaling chain doesn't matter the fact that they both have chains just means Kaido is faster but not by much

Gyarados has passive attack lowering and on the profile passive speed lowering

sure

Gyarados nulls it with mold breaker

 

[Waka1979]

Gyarados nulls it with mold breaker

How does mold breaker stop willpower manipulation?

 

[KingTempest]

The scaling chain doesn't matter the fact that they both have chains just means Kaido is faster but not by much

That's not how it works.
Say they were both .5c. Whoever has the larger scaling chain is faster. That's how it works.
Kaido is faster w/ a larger scaling chain scaling off of someone who's faster.

Gyarados has passive attack lowering and on the profile passive speed lowering

I don't see the word passive on his profile at all, and considering the fact that Kaido could easily just run up to him and just smack him says a lot.

Gyarados nulls it with mold breaker

That's not how mold breaker works.
Mold breaker shuts off resistances and immunities, not mindhax.

Conqueror's Haki does 3 things.

1. Intimidate the hell out of its opponent.
2. Puts the opponent to sleep.
3. Tells the opponent "you're on my team now".

And it does it all via Willpower Manip, not Mind Manipulation (Psychic type), so his resistance to that doesn't do anything.

Conqueror's Haki gg.

 

[Waka1979]

If Gyarados has no way to deal with conquerers haki then It's a decisive win for kaidou

 

[theultimate5105]

That's not how it works.
Say they were both .5c. Whoever has the larger scaling chain is faster. That's how it works.
Kaido is faster w/ a larger scaling chain scaling off of someone who's faster.

not much faster anyways again his speed gets lowered

I don't see the word passive on his profile at all, and considering the fact that Kaido could easily just run up to him and just smack him says a lot.

that is how abilities in pokemon works

That's not how mold breaker works.
Mold breaker shuts off resistances and immunities, not mindhax.

Conqueror's Haki does 3 things.

1. Intimidate the hell out of its opponent.
2. Puts the opponent to sleep.
3. Tells the opponent "you're on my team now".

And it does it all via Willpower Manip, not Mind Manipulation (Psychic type), so his resistance to that doesn't do anything.

Conqueror's Haki gg.

Intimidation is literally a ability that gyarados nulls

 

[Waka1979]

Intimidate is fear manipulation not willpower

 

[KingTempest]

not much faster anyways again his speed gets lowered

So you're clearly not understanding the mechanics of scaling chains. Anyways, Kaido is faster, if he gets his speed dropped, worst case scenario, he'll probably still be faster.

that is how abilities in pokemon works

Just checked, that's fair.

Intimidation is literally a ability that gyarados nulls

Potency of intimidation that he nulls?
Kaido's Conqueror's scales to Big Mom's conqueror's who scales to above Luffy and Katakuri's, 50,000 victims each.
How many people has intimidation worked against at once?

And intimidate is fear not willpower.

 

[theultimate5105]

So you're clearly not understanding the mechanics of scaling chains. Anyways, Kaido is faster, if he gets his speed dropped, worst case scenario, he'll probably still be faster.

nope scaling chains never upscale someone to that degree unless their are multipliers

Just checked, that's fair.

Potency of intimidation that he nulls?
Kaido's Conqueror's scales to Big Mom's conqueror's who scales to above Luffy and Katakuri's, 50,000 victims each.
How many people has intimidation worked against at once?

And intimidate is fear not willpower.

Its Powernull not resistence it passively nulls it before it even happens

 

[KingTempest]

nope scaling chains never upscale someone to that degree

You didn't even know how scaling chains worked before this thread -_- it's scaling off a bunch of blitzing, yes.

Its Powernull not resistence it passivly nulls it before it even happens

Never shown to powernull willpower manip

 

[Waka1979]

Even assuming they are comparable in terms of speed conquerers haki is still a valid wincon unless you can prove willpower manip is nulled by mold breaker

 

[ElixirBlue]

Even assuming they are comparable in terms of speed conquerers haki is still a valid wincon unless you can prove willpower manip is nulled by mold breaker

Has Conquerers Haki worked on someone with relative AP? I remember fodder being effected.

 

[Waka1979]

Has Conquerers Haki worked on someone with relative AP? I remember fodder being effected.

I'm not a one piece expert so I can't say for sure

 

[KingTempest]

Has Conquerers Haki worked on someone with relative AP? I remember fodder being effected.

He's an animal, it's stronger on animals.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Technically a pocket monster but

 

[theultimate5105]

You didn't even know how scaling chains worked before this thread -_- it's scaling off a bunch of blitzing, yes.

no that is legit how it works it will just be unquantifiably above also a ton of that scaling chain is nowhere near blitzing or just wrong

Never shown to powernull willpower manip

It powernulls intense willpower which is what lets kaido perform it (guts) Intimidation which is the application of it (intimidate)

 

[Lou_change]

It powernulls multiple mindhax will manipulation is a sub category of mindhax not to mention we assume it works if we don't know then the reverse but some abilities effect pokemon's will to fight.

 

[KingTempest]

no that is legit how it works it will just be unquantifiably above also a ton of that scaling chain is nowhere near blitzing or just wrong

Kaido blitzed Luffy who fits in that scaling chain.

Kaido blitzed a .57c character.
Gyarados is a .53c character.

Kaido blitzes

It powernulls intense willpower

WHEN DOES IT SHOW THIS

which is what lets kaido perform it (guts) Intimidation which is the application of it (intimidate)

Intimidation inverse ≠ intimidation out of verse.

 

[theultimate5105]

Kaido blitzed Luffy who fits in that scaling chain.

Kaido blitzed a .57c character.
Gyarados is a .53c character.

Kaido blitzes

wrong Base is .53c Mega is much faster

WHEN DOES IT SHOW THIS

Intimidation inverse ≠ intimidation out of verse.

I love how you split up my thing into different chunks that don't even make sense Puts something in then the explanation you splits them into two pieces to prove yourself right
Guts=Intense willpower (which is what even allows conquerors haki) Mold breaker nulls Guts

 

[Waka1979]

He's an animal, it's stronger on animals.

Also didn't Shanks successfully use it against a comparable sea king?

 

[KingTempest]

wrong Base is .53c Mega is much faster

Ok.
Gear Fourth is much faster.
Kaido blitzed him.
Kaido blitzed the same person who had a 5 second head start via looking into the future who also has a much larger scaling chain.

I love how you split up my thing into different chunks that don't even make sense Puts something in then the explanation you splits them into two pieces to prove yourself right

WHEN DOES IT SHOW THIS

Also didn't Shanks successfully use it against a comparable sea king?

Yes he bit his arm off and Shanks said "go die".

 

[theultimate5105]

Ok.
Gear Fourth is much faster.
Kaido blitzed him.
Kaido blitzed the same person who had a 5 second head start via looking into the future who also has a much larger scaling chain.

sure larger scaling chain nobody cares thats not how versus threads work

Yes he bit his arm off and Shanks said "go die".

 

[ElixirBlue]

Also didn't Shanks successfully use it against a comparable sea king?

The Sea King that got one shotted by BoS Luffy? Comparable? Lol

 

[Waka1979]

The Sea King that got one shotted by BoS Luffy? Comparable? Lol

Same type but as far as we know not the exact same one. And the fact that it still managed to bite off shanks' arm means it can't be that much weaker

 

[ElixirBlue]

Same type but as far as we know not the exact same one. And the fact that it still managed to bite off shanks' arm means it can't be that much weaker

But it got one shotted by Beginning of the Series Luffy. By measuring Luffy’s journey, it has to be massively weaker than Shanks.

 

[theultimate5105]

Same type but as far as we know not the exact same one. And the fact that it still managed to bite off shanks' arm means it can't be that much weaker

pretty sure it was fodder Shanks said he bet the arm on a new era and at that time he was famous for fighting Mihawk so I would assume that he was much stronger then it unless that tiny sea king would solo all of the 4 blues

 

[Waka1979]

pretty sure it was fodder Shanks said he bet the arm on a new era and at that time he was famous for fighting Mihawk so I would assume that he was much stronger then it unless that tiny sea king would solo all of the 4 blues

It was also 10 years prior to mihawks fight with zero, we don't know how powerful they were at that time.

And again saying that the sea king luffy one shot is comparable or that all sea kings are comparable is a stretch imo

 

[theultimate5105]

It was also 10 years prior to mihawks fight with zero, we don't know how powerful they were at that time.

And again saying that the sea king luffy one shot is comparable or that all sea kings are comparable is unsubstantiated.

he was famous at that time and I am pretty sure Whitebeard was suprised he lost an arm in the east
also different sea king types should be comparable to others of their types

 

[Waka1979]

"Surprised he lost an arm" still doesn't mean vastly stronger than a sea king that managed to injure him. And there's still no evidence that all sea king are comparable. Anyways considering that all this is clearly debatable consider me neutral atm