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Guilty Gear Scaling Revision (Part 8): Miscellaneous AP Revisions + Some Abilities

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CloverDragon03

CloverDragon03

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So as it turns out, I'm a liar.

I wanted the previous revision to be the last AP one, but I noticed a few things that require cleaning up. In addition, this is an opportunity for me to add some abilities that are related to this.

Here is the sandbox. This boils down to 3 proposals:
  1. Asuka's keys get 10-C and otherwise below average physical stats, as he's in very bad physical condition and his superhuman stats come from his magic (I think this would apply to speed too? Not sure. I'd like input on this)
  2. Slayer and Nagoriyuki get new keys for their true forms, as being Nightless means they are demi-humans - which get some nifty stuff thanks to Happy Chaos's yap fest
  3. Bedman gets Higher-Dimensional Existence, also stated from Happy Chaos's yap fest
That's about it. For real this time, after this will be speed revisions - which I anticipate will take some time before a thread actually gets put out.

For now, though, I'm gonna open the floor to discussion!

Agree: DarkGrath, DarkDragonMedeus, Theglassman12
Disagree:
Neutral:
 
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This is mostly fine, but the Omnipresent rating for the Nightless is a bit questionable. The source says that they are "dwellers of infinite timelines", but this doesn't necessarily imply their forms encapsulate the entirety of these timelines - just that they exist in each of them.
 
DarkGrath said:
This is mostly fine, but the Omnipresent rating for the Nightless is a bit questionable. The source says that they are "dwellers of infinite timelines", but this doesn't necessarily imply their forms encapsulate the entirety of these timelines - just that they exist in each of them.
Click to expand...
Okay, finally getting around to this, I'm unsure of the interpretation that they simply exist in each timeline. That would theoretically be the case for most people, no? Just some alternate version of themselves?

And I did look into this. The closest thing I found was Happy Chaos saying that demi-humans "are the same across Independent Segments." Cross-referencing the Guilty Gear wiki page on Vampires, it seems to interpret this as demi-humans being the same existence across all parallel worlds. There's also the fact that they need to downconvert themselves to properly exist in "the real world," which is another part of why I interpret this as Omnipresence (or at least, some kind of Temporal Omnipresence)

Another suggestion I received was that this might be Type 3 Acausality, but I'm not entirely sure on that
 
I feel like the omnipresence stuff could be interpreted as Type 3 Acausality given if they can exist across infinite timelines, that would imply all versions of themselves are the same person.

Asuka being slower, if he's already physically weak, and if nothing implies he's as fast as he is with magic then it should be downscaled too.

HDE is fine.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Quite a bit. And that's not even including ability revisions. After this, I'm gonna take a break (both because mental health and because I need time to plan stuff out), but the plan is that the next thing I'll cover is speed
Click to expand...
Nice, I would like to tell you this clover regarding your CRT’s with GG.

IMG-8906.jpg
 
I've edited the sandbox to reflect the suggested Type 3 Acausality, by the way
 
CloverDragon03 said:
(as she's the one who started this, much love to her)
Click to expand...
Much love to you too, for all your hard work while I've been busy.

CloverDragon03 said:
And I did look into this. The closest thing I found was Happy Chaos saying that demi-humans "are the same across Independent Segments." Cross-referencing the Guilty Gear wiki page on Vampires, it seems to interpret this as demi-humans being the same existence across all parallel worlds. There's also the fact that they need to downconvert themselves to properly exist in "the real world," which is another part of why I interpret this as Omnipresence (or at least, some kind of Temporal Omnipresence)

Another suggestion I received was that this might be Type 3 Acausality, but I'm not entirely sure on that
Click to expand...
Could you quote exactly when this Happy Chaos quote occurs, and which part of the wiki page you're referring to? Just for referencing sake.

This doesn't ultimately sound like Omnipresence to me, whether spatial or temporal. I think everything you've said could be true, and there would still be sections of space or time where they aren't present.

I'm not very well-versed on the standards for Type 3 Acausality or the kinds of examples where it would be applied either, I'm afraid, but I think it fits. I would infer that, if they exist across all parallel universes, that killing one in a single universe would not kill the rest of them. Hypothetically, it could work like that, but I wouldn't assume that without any evidence to it. The only issue I have is this statement on the Type 3 description:

Characters with this type of Acausality are incredibly difficult to kill, as other versions of themselves - from other points in time and/or from other universes - can survive the destruction of the "original" and act in their place. This also grants them immunity to changes in the past.
Click to expand...
I'm unsure if this is supposed to be implying that a character with Type 3 can replace their current version if it is destroyed, which is distinct from simply having the same existence across different worlds. Given that Solaris is mentioned on the Acausality page as an example of Type 3, and I know you're well-versed in Sonic, I imagine you might have more insight here.

(Side-note, the Acausality page uses a Guilty Gear scan as a demonstration of all things. Who would have thought?)
 
DarkGrath said:
Could you quote exactly when this Happy Chaos quote occurs, and which part of the wiki page you're referring to? Just for referencing sake.
Click to expand...
The quote
The wiki's interpretation

(Demi-humans are also considered a "bug" in the world's programming, though I don't think this means anything on its own)
DarkGrath said:
I'm not very well-versed on the standards for Type 3 Acausality or the kinds of examples where it would be applied either, I'm afraid, but I think it fits. I would infer that, if they exist across all parallel universes, that killing one in a single universe would not kill the rest of them. Hypothetically, it could work like that, but I wouldn't assume that without any evidence to it. The only issue I have is this statement on the Type 3 description:


I'm unsure if this is supposed to be implying that a character with Type 3 can replace their current version if it is destroyed, which is distinct from simply having the same existence across different worlds. Given that Solaris is mentioned on the Acausality page as an example of Type 3, and I know you're well-versed in Sonic, I imagine you might have more insight here.
Click to expand...
Okay, so Solaris's deal is that he exists across all of past, present, and future, and thus destroying Solaris in only one time period doesn't actually affect him as a whole. Sonic, Shadow, and Silver had to strike him across all of past, present, and future simultaneously to do any meaningful damage

I believe the replacement part is more like a natural consequence of existing across all timelines
 
CloverDragon03 said:
The quote
The wiki's interpretation
Click to expand...
Yeah, this makes sense. I have no issue with Type 3 Acausality, then. I would recommend just updating the sandbox to add a justification/link to that particular quote for the Acausality section - something along the lines of "As Demihumans do not have IDs like other living entities, their existence is the same across all different parallel universes".
 
DarkGrath said:
Yeah, this makes sense. I have no issue with Type 3 Acausality, then. I would recommend just updating the sandbox to add a justification/link to that particular quote for the Acausality section - something along the lines of "As Demihumans do not have IDs like other living entities, their existence is the same across all different parallel universes".
Click to expand...
...Wait, does this mean Bedman should also have Type 3 Acausality, since he deleted his ID?
 
Given the consensus, I'd say it's safe to apply changes. I'll need Bedman's, Slayer's, Nagoriyuki's, and Asuka's profiles unlocked
 
I've applied the changes. The profiles can be locked and this thread can be closed
 
I've locked the profiles. I'll close this.
 
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