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(GRACE) Homer tries to strangle an adult Bart

From what I see, Bart downscales from a 0.21 tons feat, as he can harm Homer, but the latter is still regarded as much more durable and Bart doesn't scale to these feats, and just harming someone still doesn't mean you are as durable or strong as them.

On the other hand, Guile scales to 0.04 tons, which is almost 5x lower than what Homer scales to. Considering that Bart downscales from that for a good margin, he still has higher stats but the gap shouldn't be that big, and Guile has way to boost his attacks and overall stats through rage.

And that's it, Bart's only advantage are stats, in combat he isn't nearly as trained, skilled or experienced as Guile.

Bart might have had his own amount of brawls and training in military school, but Guile has had plenty of actual fights in formal tournaments and generic battles, against a variety of skilled opponents, on top of having his own years of military training, and keeps doing so even just for his job, Bart can't nearly compete.
Guile also has projectiles and he is really skilled with them, and has several variations and ways to enhance them.

I think Guile takes this without too much difficulty, Bart might be unnaturally strong and durable, but Guile just owns him in combat.
 
Maybe yes, at first it seemed a stomp in Homer's favor to me, but after thinking about it a bit more it could actually be fair.
 
I believe homer can take this while homer isn’t that far behind when it comes to skill homer is above Bart who consistently fights an ex Green beret that being skinner, he should also be above marge who has training that put her above an mma fighter, and she once beat up a gang of 5 navy soldiers so he shouldn’t be that far behind when it comes to skill. I think homer’s biggest edge is the wrestling homer is a great grappler he often is successful with his attempts to strangle characters not just bart and with his superior ls he’ll be able to choke guile until he passes out also things like coming back after passing out, sound manipulation, and pressure points help him
 
I disagree with Homer being not far behind Guile. All the things mentioned are good to qualify him as an adept fighter, but they pale in comparison to Guile. Skinner was a green beret in his youth, and his current self is far less strong and skilled due to age and rustiness. An mma fighter and navy soldiers are average good fighters and soldiers, but Guile isn't one of them.

Guile has a lifetime of military training that still goes on as of now in the series, and he is described as the best fighter of the air force. He entered two World Tournaments and has fought and sparred with a variety of master martial artists and assassins, beating body guards and random soldiers is something he does for job and on a normal basis.
Homer's pressure points are fairly basic, things that exist even in real life, one like Guile should be well aware of them, even after fighting assassing like Fang and Vega.
Being a grappler doesn't help, Guile's style includes wrestling on top of other mixed martial arts, and Guile has experience against grapplers such as his fellow soldiers, Nash, Abel and possibly Zangief and more.

Let alone the fact that Guile is much more used to combat and has a more fighting-oriented mindset than Homer.


Homer's biggest advantages are his ap and dura, which are almost 5 times Guile's, and his physiology, which includes super stamina, elasticity, toon force, elasticity-related regen, which basically nullify punches, kicks and impacts.

Due to this, Homer might be able to catch Guile by surprise, as he wouldn't expect his opponenet to be a blob-like person, but due to the skill gap and Homer's overall clumsiness and lack of awareness.

Guile's best bet now would be to use his projectiles, as the Sonic Booms have cutting properties, and shredding Homer down is basically the only way for him to win, as Homer hasn't show the ability to recover and resurrect from such severe damage and loss of pieces.

And Guile has several ways to employ his Sonic Boom, as he has a ton of experience using them, and can fire many of them at the same time, make them faster, throw them with kicks, create vertical and stationary version which can then be sent forward and finally giant and large versions.

Overall, I think Guile has the chances to take this, once he realizes he can't phisically hurt Homer, he will try to make distance, evade his attacks, knocking him down and more, something he can already do with his skill, mobility and ranged options, and eventually cut him down.

The location deserves a final mention, because depending on it (an impasse is rather generic) new options can be available to both.
 
Livinmeme said:
Question how a sonic boom is doing that amount of damage that matters if the AP diference is 5x.
Click to expand...
It has cutting properties, and they can also be enhanced in strenght and speed, they can definitely hurt and cut Homer.
 
It's not a matter of scaling massively above someone's ap, something sharp has the inherent ability to damage something more durable, as it concentrates the force on a smaller spot, just like a paper sheet or a bug can pierce our skin.
Blades, spikes and bullets are also recognized wiki-wide as having these properties (A page about piercing damage was planned to be made, also), as even extraordinary durable characters (within a certain limit) can be damaged by bullets, swords etc.

And the Sonic Booms should totally have cutting properties, they are shaped like blades and several Sonic Boom-related technique (both Guile and Charlie's) are referred with such names, for example: Sonic Blade, Sonic Slash, Knife Edge, Sonic Scythe, Moonsault Slash, Judgment Saber (the latter also looks like a buzzsaw of sort).
Also, one of Guile's victory quotes in SF4 says My arms and legs cut like blades! You can't compare!"

(There was also a piece of text from some guide that stated that, but I can't find it at the moment)
 
Yeah but isnt kinda NLF that sharp damage is doing a significant amount of damage that homer can just heal
 
From what's described, Homer's regen is more based on elasticity (several toon force-related characters have this as regeneration and I was actually planning to revise it) and his other feat seems to be overtime (although it's not stated how much) and he needed his heart to be put back in place.

Because of this, he seems to be vulnerable to being cut and still needing an amount of time to heal and some help (live having his heart back), and storming him with cutting projectiles should work.

If this isn't deemed possible, then it's a stomp, as the only way for Guile to defeat him would be to drown him into a lake in Central Park (due to SBA) or something, as Homer just shrugs off any damage and can perfectly outlast Guile.
 
Well then, the elasticity-toon force revision has been carried out, so I confirm my point about Guile being seriously messed up by Homer's strikes, but once he understands how powerful he is, Guile isn't going to let Homer hit him so easily thanks to higher skill, agility and mobility, and I believe he can definitely wore and slash him out with enough hits.
 
I don’t think it’s in character for guile to just want to slice open some dad even if he did homer does have a response to the sonic boom that being his pistol which is also a ranged option or he can cause an earthquake by dohing loudly to make him lose focus and miss or possibly deafen him which would be a major disadvantage also wearing homer down is a very hard task given the amount of pain he can tank
 
I mean, this is a battle were both are willing to kill, and Guile must defend himself against a brute who's trying to murder him and punches with enormous force, taking him down as fast and efficiently as possible is the best option for Guile, and it would be in-character with his military training and mindset.

I didn't notice Homer had guns as standard equipment, that shouldn't really be a thing tbh, it's not like he casually carries guns in every episode. But Guile still is fast and agile enough to dodge bullets, assuming they are not really at point-blank range. He can also protect himself with Sonic Blade (which is basically made to be a shield), target Homer's hands with his own projectiles and why not even manage to disarm him at close range, which is something an air force major with years of experience and training should be at least be used to do.


A super loud doh would definitely be problematic, but that can also be argue to be OoC, since he did that only one time, at least going by the profile. If he were bloodlusted, which we basically use when we want to throw in-character mindsets into the bin, then I'd agree he would be much more prone to using it.
 
I think guns for homer is perfectly fine there are a lot of times where homer just pulls out a pistol

homer wouldn’t be wanting to straight up murder guile the most he’d want to do to him is knock him out I’d argue neither the gun or the sonic boom will come out

I’d argue homer could also dodge since he also has some acrobatics and avoided gun fire before
 
By SBA characters are willing to kill, reason why sometimes the op has to manually forbid death as way of winning (something I often do with my matches), but regardless, Sonic Booms and related variations are one of Guile's main ways of fighting, he would definitely use them either if he wanted to kill or not.

Those are actually excellent (and superhuman) levels of acrobatics, I totally missed them. Still, those give Homer more mobility, but Guile is used to fight people with even better forms of acrobatics, like Vega, Juri and Cammy, so targeting such type of hypermobile opponents isn't anything new or impossible to do for him.
 
I found something interesting that shows homer can comeback from the sonic booms in this scene homer just kinda sticks back on a piece of his brain showing that he should be able to do the same with guile here there's also this scene where he encounters a saw again and cuts into his brain again and is seemingly fine while this happens offscreen it is canon that homer took damage from this due to him stating "my brain never stops working" and then him pausing showing that in canon he took brain damage yet his skull and skin healed

I might make a regen upgrade thread relating to those two feats but when it comes to this match it gives homer a better advantage since if homer gets cut up he can patch himself back up but if homer shoots guile that's permanent damage done to him
 
In the first video he needes chewing gum to attach it back, so it's not combat appliable, unless he somehow finds some around.

The second is also good, but we don't know the extension of the damage, the time it took him to heal, if he was incapacitated during the process and he still got permanent damage.
It's not enough to say he can immediately regenerate, shrugging off any prossible cutting damage in seconds.
 
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