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Griffith vs Lucifer (Supernatural)

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Matthew Schroeder said:
When even fodder monster can teleport to outside space and time effortlessly, mmf.
Click to expand...
Across Space-Time =/= Overlapped worlds

Griffith is "haxed", Lucifer actually is haxed.

One Finger snap and he ignored durability and mid-godly Regenerationn and you are GONE.

What's his counter to causality manipulation? Both have ways of OHK.
 
Griffith's powers won't even work on Lucy. Lucy nullifies powers of weaker people. And yes, going outside space-time is harder than overlapped worlds.
 
First is a NLF, and Lucifer doesn't need an astral projection, he is "less corpoeal" than an astral projection by Supernatural standards.

Lel saying that the only way to enter is through Idea of Evil.
 
Didn't I not link a scan in this same thread where it literally states that Griffith can't be touched conventionally? Do you have evidence of their being different methods of entering the Astral Plane?

The God Hand created the Bels and who created them?
 
Great, so how would you define a Mook angel being capable of doing what Griffith did? Aka casually sending two people into the real world with the video link I sent you above that you are OH SO LOVINGLY ignoring. Gotta love it when people ignore your feats of them literally doing what they claim they cannot be done. And moving from a fictional world to a real world is kinda a step up.

Anyway sleeping from this point on. Will continue tomorrow.
 
Lucifer wins. He has shown the ability to counter and foderize other reality warpers. He casually broke the power of Arch Angel Gabriel and then killed with no difficulty. Gabriel was a reality warper so powerful he could create entire worlds out of nothing. Lucifer called those worlds something like "amusing illusions" before he fodderized him. Lucy was one of a group of five that took on the Darkness who is cited in the show as destroying every universe prior to this one. They imply that she would casually destroy whole planes of existence on the regular and Lucy was the second most powerful dude in the crew that took her out, right behind an omnipotent.

On top of that Lucifer has the ability to create, manipulate, destroy and travel to any alternate plane. All angels in Supernatural can actually do this with the right tools but Lucy can do it solo without a ritual or tools. As was previously stated a low level mook angel literally threw the two MC's into the real world as a diversion and another mook casually followed them. He also ignores causality and is unaffected by people messing with the timeline. Again this isn't just him, this applies to all angels, he's just more powerful than them. Angels time travel and messed with the fabric of reality on the regular. Again all angels can do this, Lucy is just better at it than most of them. He even stated that there are a finite number of ways that he can die when he god shot with a gun that's used to killed gods. He shrugged it off.

Griffith however is only immortal because he lives in the Astral Plane simultaniously with the Physical Plane. Most attacks don't even reach him. However, as was previously stated Lucifer can enter any realm he chooses with a thought and he has casually killed being that tried to run away to other planes of existence.

TLDR: Lucy stomps because he can travel anywhere, kill almost anything short of an omnipotent with ease and he can't die under normal circumstance. Griffith's best trick is hiding in the astral plane but Lucy can follow his ass anywhere.
 
It's been about 10 hours so I'll assume you're awake now

CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
Great, so how would you define a Mook angel being capable of doing what Griffith did?
Click to expand...
According to what you stated above, these mook angels can exist outside of reality. But existing outside of reality doesn't translate to existing in higher plane of existence.

Aka casually sending two people into the real world with the video link I sent you above that you are OH SO LOVINGLY ignoring.

Existing inside and outside reality =/= Existing in a higher plane of existence (Not higher-dimensional though).

Gotta love it when people ignore your feats of them literally doing what they claim they cannot be done. And moving from a fictional world to a real world is kinda a step up.

Ignoring? I listened to everything you'll said. But majority of you'll don't have proof backing them up. I at least back my statements with scans or something from the Berserk wiki.
 
Also the fact that you'll arguments seem to just be how Lucifer even reaches Griffith. I'll assume you gave up on how he counters causality and reality manipulation.
 
You realize that a fictional world is basically 2-D compared to the real world?...

Yes. Because I did not show a video referencing said event nor are you willing to check out the wiki pike you told me to on Berserk.

Kudos to you though. I get closer to giving up on trying to persuade you.
 
Because he pretty much has those two abilities? Because the giy who responded after me just delivered a huge explanation on the various ways he can wipe out Griff here? Totally
 
CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
You realize that a fictional world is basically 2-D compared to the real world?...
Click to expand...
Going into lower-dimensional worlds=/=Entering higher planes.

Yes. Because I did not show a video referencing said event nor are you willing to check out the wiki pike you told me to on Berserk.

You're starting to reach now. Parallel universes=/=Higher planes of existence

Kudos to you though. I get closer to giving up on trying to persuade you.

You arguments aren't convincing or persuasive. I'm completely fine with not debating this anymore if you are.
 
CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
Because he pretty much has those two abilities? Because the giy who responded after me just delivered a huge explanation on the various ways he can wipe out Griff here? Totally
Click to expand...
Same person also stated that Lucifer is a Low-tier omnipotent. So why should I take their opinions seriously.
 
That part id a bit way too much then again SPNs side of the wiki hasnt been updated for awhipe. Either way when you describe the real world as a parallel world it means something.

Youre literally thr only one fighting for Griffith when everyone else agrees on what happens. Then again maybe that just speaks of how little you know of Lucy here. I recall a similar case when we debated before.

On a final note only beings such as souls and angels who are more like higher dimensional frequencies could access heaven. Though saying that is pointless since you wont stop and just keep claiming Grif is untouchable. So dont worry ill stop.

On mobile btw sorry for any spelping mistajes
 
CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
That part id a bit way too much then again SPNs side of the wiki hasnt been updated for awhipe. Either way when you describe the real world as a parallel world it means something.
Click to expand...
Those wasn't parallel universes in the video. I find that interesting when it's in the title.

Youre literally thr only one fighting for Griffith when everyone else agrees on what happens. Then again maybe that just speaks of how little you know of Lucy here. I recall a similar case when we debated before.

No offense, but I seem to be the only one here that knows anything about Griffith. That and only three people here are arguing for Lucifer.

On a final note only beings such as souls and angels who are more like higher dimensional frequencies could access heaven. Though saying that is pointless since you wont stop and just keep claiming Grif is untouchable. So dont worry ill stop.

Everything I mentioned about Griffith's unique and powerful form of intangibility is factual. I provided scans so please don't act like I'm overplaying Griffith.

On mobile btw sorry for any spelping mistajes

It's cool.
 
What was covered? How Lucifer even reaches Griffith has yet to be addressed. Or how Lucifer counters causality or reality manipulation. All I seen was insane reaches here. For example

•Entering parallel universes being compared to entering higher planes of existence.

•Someone saying Lucifer can beat anyone short of omnipotents.

•Having reality warping automatically means you counter your opponents.
 
Lucifer reaches Griffith's Astral Plane through teleportation. Get over it, "Higher Plane of existence" doesn't mean much when the character in question is still 6-A.

No one said that, Lucifer beats the Berserk Verse through hax.

That is stupid, it's like saying a guy with a sword can't beat another guy with a sword because he lacks a shield.
 
Ok, then here goes.

Griffith causality manip - Lucifer is acausual

Griffith Reality changes reality to win in some way - Lucifer warps reality back to how it was before. Because even if you can't accept it, reality warping can be used to counter reality warping. Funny that.

Beserkcosmos
Griffith exists on the astral world, a world that overlaps with the physical world - Lucifer teleports there easily. The Ideal world, which is the furthest removed from the physical world, is described as heaven or hell, and Lucifer can travel between heaven and hell easily. He will have no problems getting to the astral world. He could get to the Ideal world if he wanted.
 
There are numerous parallel and higher worlds in Supernatural, which Lucy can reach easily.

There is no matter in Heaven, Hell, nor Purgatory, so you could also call them "Astral Worlds"
 
Heaven

Hell

Purgatory

The Nests

The Empty

Avalon

All places that exist outside our universe's space-time, and are completely alien to our universe.

Heaven, Hell and Purgatory are directly connected to Earth, and they are also ethereal realms with no matter.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Ok, then here goes.

Griffith causality manip - Lucifer is acausual
Click to expand...
Lucifer isn't acausal. But if he is, then I'll definitely agree that this is a stomp and should probably be closed.

Griffith Reality changes reality to win in some way - Lucifer warps reality back to how it was before. Because even if you can't accept it, reality warping can be used to counter reality warping. Funny that.

"Warps reality in some way" lel. Griffith's reality warping put the surface of the planet in interstice. Please provide proof of Lucifer reverting that.

Griffith exists on the astral world, a world that overlaps with the physical world - Lucifer teleports there easily. The Ideal world, which is the furthest removed from the physical world, is described as heaven or hell, and Lucifer can travel between heaven and hell easily. He will have no problems getting to the astral world. He could get to the Ideal world if he wanted.

This isn't right at all. The abyss isn't heaven or hell. That's what humans believe it to be. Please stop stating false informatio. Lucifer teleporting their when there's already described methods of entering the Astral World is reaching.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
There are numerous parallel and higher worlds in Supernatural, which Lucy can reach easily.

There is no matter in Heaven, Hell, nor Purgatory, so you could also call them "Astral Worlds"
Click to expand...
The Astral worlds have matter actually. Lucifer reaching worlds in his verse isn't going to translate here when there's already established methods of entering.
 
Lucifer. Teleports across space-time, layers of existence, universes and astral planes.

Please, stop saying he can't reach it.

And he is Acausal. He is immune to Causality Manipulation from Angels, and angels are not affected by rewritings in the timeline.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Lucifer. Teleports across space-time, layers of existence, universes and astral planes.

Please, stop saying he can't reach it.
Click to expand...
Why do you continue to mention Space-Time when I already mentioned above that the higher planes in Berserk arent related to Space-Time. It's more of a meta-physical thing.

And he is Acausal. He is immune to Causality Manipulation from Angels, and angels are not affected by rewritings in the timeline.

You're an administrator, if Lucifer is really Acausal, why not close this. Its a stomp if so.
 
Being unnaffected by someone changing history through time travel is a pretty good example of acausality, not resistance to time manipulation. Resistance to time manipulation is moving in stopped time, not being affected by aging/age-reverting spells, etc. Completely ignoring changes to a timeline that should have re-written your past and thus present self is clearly an example of acausality.

I noticed that putting Instertice on the surface of the planet didn't actually kill anyone directly, it just allowed monsters from human imagination to take physical forms. I also notice Griffith needed the Skull Knight's Behelit sword to do that, as I said above, whereas Lucifer's reality warping doesn't seem to need anything but his own power.

Ok, lets get something straight. The Physical World, Astral World and Ideal world, are all separate worlds affected by the human mind. They overlap, but they are not simply different planes of reality. Lucfier can teleport to heaven and hell, purgatory, avalon, all worlds that exist outside normal space-time and are completely separate from the Earthly world. He is not going to have trouble getting to the Astral World to smite Griffith.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Being unnaffected by someone changing history through time travel is a pretty good example of acausality, not resistance to time manipulation. Resistance to time manipulation is moving in stopped time, not being affected by aging/age-reverting spells, etc. Completely ignoring changes to a timeline that should have re-written your past and thus present self is clearly an example of acausality.
Click to expand...
I know this already. But since I don't know very much about Supernatural. I wouldn't assume if their acausal or not.

I noticed that putting Instertice on the surface of the planet didn't actually kill anyone directly, it just allowed monsters from human imagination to take physical forms. I also notice Griffith needed the Skull Knight's Behelit sword to do that, as I said above, whereas Lucifer's reality warping doesn't seem to need anything but his own power.

Placing the entire planets surface wasn't supposed to kill anyone. It was so Griffith can create his empire. Skull Knights attack killed Gansh actually. The reality warping was all Griffith.

Ok, lets get something straight. The Physical World, Astral World and Ideal world, are all separate worlds affected by the human mind. They overlap, but they are not simply different planes of reality. Lucfier can teleport to heaven and hell, purgatory, avalon, all worlds that exist outside normal space-time and are completely separate from the Earthly world. He is not going to have trouble getting to the Astral World to smite Griffith.

Again no, I'm starting to think you know nothing of Berserk. Teleportation inside a Space-Time continuum isn't the same as the Berserk world. Which is based of the actual Astral Plane.
 
Astral Plane would just be a different dimension Lucifer could teleport to.

Also, when your whole argument to say Griffith isn't stomped is "Can Lucy reach him?" you know you ****** up.

Anyway, this is a stomp.
 
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