Grace - Indie Horrors duke out (Reaper Bird vs SOMETHING)

[StrymULTRA]

For the Top 15 strongest thread.

Speed Equalized, SBA Otherwise.

Alphys' failure: 0	Sunny's mistake: 0	Incon: 8

 

[azontr]

So, off the bat, Something has no way to be killed, and will passively nullify all of the opponent's abilities. It also MASSIVELY upscales from 4.4x the Reaper Bird's AP.

What's bird's move?

 

[Shmooply]

undertale
horror

What's bird's move?

Checking the fight, it seems their only move is throwing heads and summoning butterflies that fly towards the opponent's SOUL. I don't see any Power Null resistance on its profile so Something just immediately negates its only method of attacking. How in-character is it for Something to use its Fear Hax in a fight?

 

[StrymULTRA]

It also MASSIVELY upscales from 4.4x the Reaper Bird's AP.

The Bird's dura is enormously above a degree of Durability that's enough to straight up be immune to that 18 Tons value, mind you. Plus it can just nullify the damage through counting it as invalid and absorbing it onto itself.

Something has no way to be killed

The bird could potentially absorb Something into itself if it's on contact with it too much.

What's bird's move?

SOUL-based Danmaku, which is either this or this.

Plus given how Undertale's durability negation works, as long as the gap is enough to allow the Bird to deal damage, the maximum amount of hits required would be 20 as the baseline Soul would have 20 HP.

and will passively nullify all of the opponent's abilities.

If it's through AFRAID, I do not think that can work, as the Amalgamates have DETERMINATION, which is essentially Supernatural Willpower that allows the user to endure even pain caused from fatal wounds, and Alphys kinda of absued it when making them.

 

[azontr]

The Bird's dura is enormously above a degree of Durability that's enough to straight up be immune to that 18 Tons value, mind you. Plus it can just nullify the damage through counting it as invalid and absorbing it onto itself.

I'd say Something's scaling chain is better, given it goes Headspace Party = 8-B+ <<< Perfectheart and Life Jam Guy < Something.

Something is also incorporeal, so it's unlikely they'd be able to absorb its attacks.

The bird could potentially absorb Something into itself if it's on contact with it too much.

Something is incorporeal and abstract, so doubtful that it can be absorbed through just physical means. Even if it is absorbed, so long as Sunny's trauma exists, it would just come back in a new form.

SOUL-based Danmaku, which is either this or this.

Plus given how Undertale's durability negation works, as long as the gap is enough to allow the Bird to deal damage, the maximum amount of hits required would be 20 as the baseline Soul would have 20 HP.

Not on the profile, but I do not think Something would even have a Soul, given its nature, but anyways.

Something can simply teleport out of the way of the barrage, or warp to any of the Spaces (White, Black, Red, etc) and return to the battlefield to avoid the attacks.

If it's through AFRAID, I do not think that can work, as the Amalgamates have DETERMINATION, which is essentially Supernatural Willpower that allows the user to endure even pain caused from fatal wounds, and Alphys kinda of absued it when making them.

Something's AFRAID is layered fear manip. Should work just fine.

Fear Manipulation, Status Effect Inducement, & Power Nullification (Passive - 1 layer - Immediately inflicts the FEAR status effect upon starting its fight. The FEAR status prevents those effected by it from using anything but basic attacks, and Something's AFRAID with different forms can bypass the CALM DOWN skill which can grant a resistance to its passive AFRAID when used. Its many variants can also inflict FEAR through physical attacks)

Not to mention, if Determination doesn't have any feats of overcoming fear hax, it wouldn't work anyways.

 

[azontr]

How in-character is it for Something to use its Fear Hax in a fight?

It's fear hax is a passive ability.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Something is also incorporeal, so it's unlikely they'd be able to absorb its attacks.

Huh huh... One of Undertale Monsters' main thing is literally their NPI, given that Monsters are made of magic, thus can interact with SOULs and ghosts:

• Non-Physical Interaction: Monsters' magic is showcased to be able to actually harm Mad Dummy, who couldn't be damaged from Frisk because of their true body being incorporeal, thus immune to their attacks due to humans lacking magic on their own.
• SOUL Manipulation: Monsters' magic attacks the SOUL, which is the essence of one's being. Some monsters can also manipulate the SOUL of their opponent though inflicting status effects, such as making it heavier or unable to walk away from a point in the area.

Heck we have literally incorporeal peeps as monsters (and there's even a section made entirely for them, that being "ghosts"), so... no. Monsters' bodies, compared to human ones, do not have much physical matter because of them being made of magic to the same degree humans are made of water, meaning that they can interact with incoporeal shit just fine.

abstract

Isn't it Type 2? It's just Incoporeal + Type 8.

 

[azontr]

Huh huh... One of Undertale Monsters' main thing is literally their NPI, given that Monsters are made of magic, thus can interact with SOULs and ghosts:

I believe SOULs and Ghosts are a different type of non-physical than Something, given its made from thoughts and trauma.

Also, they only have this with Magic, not general physical skills. The absorption isn't a magical ability, as far as I am aware.

Isn't it Type 2? It's just Incoporeal + Type 8.

I added the word abstract for a bit more fluff, and to more thoroughly explain it's nature for anyone reading. I know it's only Type 2 (though I think it should be Type 1, but I won't argue that).

 

[StrymULTRA]

I believe SOULs and Ghosts are a different type of non-physical than Something, given its made from thoughts and trauma.

Given that on the wiki we generally do stuff out of semantics, iirc we equalize that stuff.

Also, they only have this with Magic, not general physical skills. The absorption isn't a magical ability, as far as I am aware.

It's not really relevant, as they're still invulnerable to damage and would extend the HP bar instead of losing HPs. The damage dealt from Something can still be registred and healed from Sunny, no reason to assume that the Amalgamate can't do the same.

 

[azontr]

Given that on the wiki we generally do stuff out of semantics, iirc we equalize that stuff.

Don't think I've heard of this before. In my experience, if you don't have the right type of NPI to interact with an opponent (ex: Interacting with Souls VS Interacting with Energy, or something like that), you wouldn't be able to interact with them.

I vaguely remember that SOULs in Undertale also encompass a person's thoughts and feelings, though, so maybe I'm yapping.

It's not really relevant, as they're still invulnerable to damage and would extend the HP bar instead of losing HPs. The damage dealt from Something can still be registred and healed from Sunny, no reason to assume that the Amalgamate can't do the same.

Sunny's not healing via absorbing Something's attacks, lol. Two entirely different mechanisms. And either way, even if they weren't different, that's just a feat for Sunny. Just because Sunny can do it, doesn't mean the Amalgamates would be able to do the same.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I vaguely remember that SOULs in Undertale also encompass a person's thoughts and feelings, though, so maybe I'm yapping.

Well, SOULs contain also emotions, that being love, hope and compassion.

Sunny's not healing via absorbing Something's attacks, lol.

I am aware, but he can still heal back I am arguing this.

Just because Sunny can do it, doesn't mean the Amalgamates would be able to do the same.

I am beginning to understand from where you're coming from. However... nah. It's not like just the techniques monsters use are magic, the monsters' bodies are made of magic itself, kinda different. Arguing that it can't absorb magic stuff is just silly.

Don't think I've heard of this before. In my experience, if you don't have the right type of NPI to interact with an opponent (ex: Interacting with Souls VS Interacting with Energy, or something like that), you wouldn't be able to interact with them.

I always had this impression on the other hand lol.

 

[azontr]

Well, SOULs contain also emotions, that being love, hope and compassion.

First one is kind of ehh since it comes from a random book that then proceeds to immediately say that the actual nature of the soul is unknown, but the 2nd one might hold some weight. I'm not an expert in this field.

I am beginning to understand from where you're coming from. However... nah. It's not like just the techniques monsters use are magic, the monsters' bodies are made of magic itself, kinda different. Arguing that it can't absorb magic stuff is just sisilly.

I'm aware that Monsters are made of Magic, but the distinction here is that only their Magic ATTACKS possess Non-Physical Interaction, and not their normal attacks, like say, punching and kicking.

And either way, most Monsters are physical manifestations of Magic, rather than intangible manifestations. That's why there's a distinction between ghosts, who are not physical, and for example, skeletons, who are evidently tangible beings. Magic can have distinct non-physical and physical manifestations, is what I'm saying.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm aware that Monsters are made of Magic, but the distinction here is that only their Magic ATTACKS possess Non-Physical Interaction, and not their normal attacks, like say, punching and kicking.

Well, you're wrong, also because monsters physically ramming on you inflicts SOUL damage too (and yes, the spiders aren't just something Muffet creates, they're real)

And either way, most Monsters are physical manifestations of Magic, rather than intangible manifestations. That's why there's a distinction between ghosts, who are not physical, and for example, skeletons, who are evidently tangible beings. Magic can have distinct non-physical and physical manifestations, is what I'm saying.

I know, I am just saying that for them there's no difference between incorporeal and corporeal, as normal magic can harm incorporeal shit just fine.

 

[azontr]

Well, you're wrong, also because monsters physically ramming on you inflicts SOUL damage too (and yes, the spiders aren't just something Muffet creates, they're real)

Sans and Papyrus throwing bones at you is a "physical attack", but they're still classified as Magic, lol. These are just magical attacks with physical aspects to them. It's how they even make the bullet patterns.

"But they will never know the joy of expressing themselves through magic. They'll never get a bullet pattern birthday card."

If Monsters could normally physically harm humans, then the strength difference between Monsters and Humans would mean nothing at all.

I know, I am just saying that for them there's no difference between incorporeal and corporeal, as normal magic can harm incorporeal shit just fine.

I feel like I've kinda lost the point you're trying to make with this post. There is evidently a big difference between corporeal and incorporeal in Undertale. Am I misunderstanding you here?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Sans and Papyrus throwing bones at you is a "physical attack", but they're still classified as Magic, lol.

Physical attack and Magic are the same, yes.

If Monsters could normally physically harm humans, then the strength difference between Monsters and Humans would mean nothing at all.

Who told you this? The magic in Undertale still needs to go through physical durability first before harming the SOUL of a human, it doesn't matter for them being able to punch ghosts (which are still explicitly monsters, mind you).

There is evidently a big difference between corporeal and incorporeal in Undertale. Am I misunderstanding you here?

For humans is a great difference given them being unable to harm ghosts with their complete lack of magic, for monsters it doesn't matter.

 

[azontr]

Physical attack and Magic are the same, yes.

???

I'm confused at what you're trying to argue, honestly, but I don't feel like going in circles, so I'll give my closer here and vote for inconclusive.

Even assuming Something can successfully bring their HP to 0, they have High-Mid regen, so they could simply heal via that before it hits 0 points. Meanwhile, the Bird can't really do anything to Something, given their magic attacks are nullified via AFRAID and being absorbed wouldn't really do anything to Something, who'd just manifest again in another form.

Neither can perma death or incap the other, so it's incon.

 

[StrymULTRA]

they have High-Mid regen

I somehow forgor about it lmfao.

But anyway, that was generally my idea as well, both can't do anything to the other, so Incon too.

 

[Shmooply]

If the fear hax can't affect the amalgamate, then I'll just vote incon as well.

 

[azontr]

It can. Even if it does though, AFRAID wouldn't nullify it's inherent regeneration.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

incon fra

 

[AThe1412]

Inconclusive FRA.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Incon fra

 

[Arkansalter2]

Incon fra and that's grace I do believe.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I vote for the match being inconclusive for the reasons established from the discussion between @StrymULTRA and @azontr.