Good VS Evil I: Rand al'Thor VS Vecna

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Hi Bambu, hi Sin. How goes?

Now that we finally have two of the more notorious characters outside of this wiki anyway to appear in fantasy novels, I want to see them fight. Plain and simple.

The theme? Two characters who attain godlike power, one a hero, the other a villain. Good VS Evil on a grand scale.

Both characters are at their peak. Speed is equalized.

Rand al'Thor: 0

Vecna: 2 (Saga, Bambu)

An ambiguous outcome: 0

Battle Theme


Taurus Demon - Dark Souls Music Extended

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Okay so I dunno anything about Rand, just gonna point out things for Vecna

2-A means Vecna is absurdly above baseline, since literally any god that even momentarily considered defying the Lady of Pain was flayed alive instantly, aside from their already existing scaling chain. 2-A Vecna is the only god capable of resisting Lady.

Despite what the page says, Vecna does indeed have an immense list of resistances (its a work in progress)- putting it simply he resists abilities of all gods, including Corellon Larethia, Lolth, Moradi, Mystra, etc.

Vecna similarly has thought-based mindhax with multiversal range (2-A mindhax, duh) as well as absolutely absurd precog that lets him know instantly exactly how the match plays out. This means he can essentially take any action that would possibly give him a win. His probability manip is passive and ensures he acts first.

So basically Vecna moves first thinks at him and gg.

 

[SinsofMan]

I will probably give it to Vecna FRA. It seems like while they both have the same abilities, Vecna is just a better in the hax department. Although I do sort of have a concern with Rand's Reality Warping, dont think it will matter here.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

What can Rand do against High-Godly regen?

Also 2-A subconscious will mindhax GG.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean to be fair High-Godly can be bypassed by any means of incap.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Which I don't see any for Rand that Vecna doesn't resist.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Might be a scaling chain situation?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Myeh I don't know.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

...Should I switch to someone else from D&D instead?

Or at the very least switch them to their High 6-A keys, since both of them have those?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

High 6-A lowers the scaling chains but ultimately it's just the mind/essence of Vecna in a body he snatched

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

So...what about switching to a different D&D character, then?

 

[SinsofMan]

So...what about switching to a different D&D character, then?

More concerned why in the lords name you haven't thought about this character because you can literally pick one of these tiers and it will work out somehow.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Literally nobody on this site is familiar with Keys to the Kingdom anymore.

Even me and Monarch are hazy at best at this point, judging from the last KttK thread we were in. (Which was almost a year ago by now)

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Where in Rand'a justification does it say he as making or destroying infinite universes?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Also hey I'm still familiar with KttK that was like the first true fantasy series I ever read.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Also to clarify.

I have scanned the cosmology of Wheel of Time, but while I see stuff about a each possibility branching into a different universe, I don't see anything saying those possibilities are infinite. Have I just missed something?

 

[SinsofMan]

@Monarch

Lifting an infinite multiverse counts as 2-A

Edit: Also he scales to someone who planned to rewrite an infinite multiverse and rewrite it iirc.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So...what about switching to a different D&D character, then?

Depending on how far into High 6-C he is, there are a good amount of 6-Cs he could probably combat. Imbrar Helthar would be at least aesthetically pleasing but any of the elemental lords should be relatively easy to fight since they are free of (most) hax.

High 6-As tend to be creatures with very specific scaling- either avatars/aspects of deities, demon lords, and archdevils, or abominations like the Atropal, Atropus' aspect form, or the haxless one the feat actually comes from, Phaethons.

 

[Saga89]

Rand should be somewhat above baseline too: when focused he resisted the assault the Dark One (a fellow 2-A) with ridiculous easy.

The Dark One attacked him. It came like a storm. A burst of wind so terrible, it threatened to rip Rand's skin from his bones. He stood tall, eyes toward the nothing, crossing his arms behind his back.
[...]

Rand stood before the blowing winds, stood strong, though his eyes watered as he stared into the darkness. How long had he been in this place? A thousand years? Ten thousand?

[...]

Rand stared at the Pattern, resisting the Dark Ones attack. He did not move or breathe. Breath wasn't needed here.

[...]

The Dark One chose then to attack him in force. The pressure came again, striving to crush Rand into nothing. He couldn't move. Every bit of his essence, his determination and his strength focused on keeping the Dark One from ripping him apart. [...] He opened his eyes and placed his hand before him, palm against blackness that felt solid. His self that had fuzzed, becoming indistinct as the Dark One ripped at it, pulled together. He placed his other arm down, then heaved himself to his knees.

And then, Rand al'Thor—the Dragon Reborn—stood up once again to face the Shadow.

[...]

The Dark One still strove to destroy him. Rand felt strong despite the attacks. Relaxed, complete. With his burdens gone, he could fight again. He held himself together. It was difficult, but he was victorious.

Rand stepped forward.

The Darkness shuddered. It quivered, vibrated, as if disbelieving.

[...]

The vast Shadow thundered and shook. It sent jolts through and across the world. The ground rent, the laws of nature fractured. Swords turned against their owners, food spoiled, rock turned to mud.

It came upon Rand again, the force of nothingness itself trying to pull him apart. The strength of the attack did not lessen. And yet, suddenly, it felt like an idle buzzing. [...] The Dark One's attacks lost meaning. If they could not make him yield, if they could not make him relent, then what were they?


Possibly Rand atteined some kind of Abstract Essence at the Last Battle, presenting himself as the polar opposite of the Dark One.

OH, I DO, SHAITAN, Rand said softly. I EMBRACE IT, FOR DEATH IS—AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN—LIGHTER THAN A FEATHER. DEATH ARRIVES IN A HEARTBEAT, NO MORE TANGIBLE THAN A FLICKER OF LIGHT. IT HAS NO WEIGHT, NO SUBSTANCE... Rand strode forward, speaking louder. DEATH CANNOT KEEP ME AT BAY, AND IT CANNOT RULE ME. IT COMES DOWN TO THIS, FATHER OF LIES. WHEN HAVE YOU INSPIRED A PERSON TO GIVE THEIR LIFE FOR YOU? NOT FOR THE PROMISES YOU GIVE, NOT FOR THE RICHES THEY SEEK OR THE POSITIONS THEY WOULD HOLD, BUT FOR YOU. HAS IT EVER HAPPENED?


Not only Rand endured everything another 2-A trown at him, but he also Power Absorbed and totally overpowered the Dark One (I will CRT the Power Absorption thing).

Rand punched through the blackness there and created a conduit of light and darkness, turning the Dark Ones own essence upon him. Rand felt the Dark One beyond, his immensity. Space, size, time . . . Rand understood how these things could be irrelevant now.

With a bellow—three Powers coursing through him, blood streaming down his side—the Dragon Reborn raised a hand of power and seized the Dark One through the Bore, like a man reaching through water to grab the prize at the rivers bottom.
The Dark One tried to pull back, but Rands claw was gloved by the True Power. The enemy could not taint saidin again. The Dark One tried to withdraw the True Power from Moridin, but the conduit flowed too freely, too powerfully to shut off now. Even for Shai'tan himself.

[...]

The seals crumbled. The Dark One burst free.

Rand held the Dark One tightly.

Filled with the Power, standing in a column of light, Rand pulled the Dark One into the Pattern. Only here was there time. Only here could the Shadow itself be killed.

The force in his hand, which was at once vast and yet tiny, trembled. Its screams were the sounds of planets grinding together. A pitiful object. Suddenly, Rand felt as if he were holding not one of the primal forces of existence, but a squirming thing from the mud of the sheep pens.


Finally Rand may be able to counter Vecna's precog by testing the Pattern. Still, it is unknown how much power Rand could have mustered without two female channelers assisting him with Callador, so if they are not present against Vecna, and Rand doesn't have the Choden Kal to cope the loss, Rand would be significantly weaker. I'd give it to the maimed god, because everything Rand can do, Vecna can just do better.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I will say Vecna can affect abstracts and Vecna is absurdly above baseline 2-A too (to the point that several confuse it with infinitely) since his 2-A key comes directly from resisting the Lady of Pain.

 

[Saga89]

Hey I'm voting for Vecna too, just pointing out this may not be a total stomp.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If you're knowledgeable on both (I have no idea how good Rand is, so I can't say) and you don't believe it is a stomp then yeah, I'll vote Vecna.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Good enough for me.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Jack FRA

 

[SinsofMan]

Then def Vecna FRA.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I will say Vecna can affect abstracts and Vecna is absurdly above baseline 2-A too (to the point that several confuse it with infinitely) since his 2-A key comes directly from resisting the Lady of Pain.

Yeah. If Rand is only baseline 2-A and lacks resistances to Vecna's power, I don't see him being able to win. Vecna is at least three orders higher than a baseline 2-A in the D&D multiverse. Four degrees if you consider planar > spheres scaling.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

bump