Golden Age Wonder Woman Strength

[Agnaa]

Hey gamers, an off-site acquaintance of mine pointed out an issue with Golden Age Wonder Woman's attack potency, striking strength, and lifting strength. Looking into it myself, it does seem concerning.

Essentially, the scan for it is a preview page from the comic, an interstition between two storylines. Within the actual events of the comic, which ignore that panel (as shown by this preceding story page and this following story page breaking continuity with it), that feat doesn't happen, and instead, she pulls the star with the Invisible Plane. If anyone wishes to read this themselves, it's from Wonder Woman (1942) Issue #58.

I'm not sure what feats that should be replaced with; help on that front would be appreciated. (EDIT 1: I'm gonna start looking through some and cataloguing them here)

This would also change Superman (Earth-Two)'s Late Golden Age Lifting Strength. In looking for other pages this might affect, I saw that Giganta (Post-Crisis)'s page links to this Wonder Woman once, but otherwise links to the Post-Crisis one; I'll assume that link was incorrect, and correct it to PC.

Pinging staff who are knowledgeable or supporters of DC: @Antvasima @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @CrimsonStarFallen @Elizhaa @Crazylatin77 @Eficiente @Catzlaflame @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @LordGriffin1000 @Dark-Carioca

EDIT 2: Looks like her weakness section also needs some touching up. Depending on how long this thread takes, I might do that here, or in a new thread.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Pinging staff who are knowledgeable or supporters of DC

F

But for Superman during the GA I think his next best feat is moving a Pluto sized planet in Superman #58 (1949) and throwing a moon at another moon hard enough to cause a new star to form. Additional in Superman #66 (1950) he pushes a planet the size of Earth into a smaller planet, with the force shattering both of them. In Superman #72 he also moves a dead planet at FTL speeds, but other than causing an eclipse I'm not sure if we can get a size from it. All would be before the 1952-1956 cut off date in terms of useability.

 

[Agnaa]

Currently focusing on finding replacements for Wonder Woman. If no-one's helped with those Superman feats by the time I'm done, I can try to find and calc 'em.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Currently focusing on finding replacements for Wonder Woman

In WW #38 she moves an island that when removed from Earth, created the entire pacific ocean and then yeeted a planet destroying asteroid into deep space.

EDIT: Added scans

EDIT 2: In WW#72 she also moves the moon into another dimension after it was teleported there. The plane still flying, but the narration notes that the moon is only moving because of Wonder Woman

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks a lot to both of you for helping out.

I have no problems with your suggestions here.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Pinging staff who are knowledgeable or supporters of DC

I only know Green Lantern stuff to some degree but I'm fine with removing the feat and updating her page accordingly to what valid feats are found as well as updating pages that scale to her. I myself don't know any feats but if valid feats are found, it has my support. Sorry I can't be of much help.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

(EDIT 1: I'm gonna start looking through some and cataloguing them here)

I assume you'd also want some of these feats to be calculated?

 

[Agnaa]

I assume you'd also want some of these feats to be calculated?

The ones which we end up selecting for use on profiles, yeah.

 

[The_Fiend888]

EDIT 2: In WW#72 she also moves the moon into another dimension after it was teleported there. The plane still flying, but the narration notes that the moon is only moving because of Wonder Woman

Randomhelper323 had calculated the energy required to push the Moon out of its orbit as Multi-Continental level. Naturally, it is not as high as that star feat and strangely not at Moon level. I guess it must have taken about this much power to accomplish this feat you mentioned.

As for Ls: NASA's 'Moon Fact Sheet' page states that the average orbital speed of the moon is 1022 m/s. If we assume that its speed is the same as its acceralation:

1022 × 7.342e+22=7.503524e+25 N=7.6488522e+24 kgf Class Y Not bad.

 

[Agnaa]

I'd hoped to have made this more comprehensive, but I don't think I have the time/interest to continue collecting Wonder Woman feats.

I've still collected a lot, probably enough to be generally representative of where she lands. Key points:

• She regularly reaches into Tier 8 with direct SS feats, often enough to outweigh any anti-feats below.
• She regularly reaches into Class M and beyond with direct LS feats, occasionally reaching as high as Class Z, often enough to outweigh any anti-feats below.
• Her highest lifting feats occur at FTL speeds, leading them to double as SS feats around Planet level.
• Among entities with profiles, she has feats scaling her to Superman, The Spectre, and the Green Lantern Power Ring. I'm going to leave it up to others more knowledgeable on our scaling standards to determine which of these are legitimate.

I'd appreciate help from more knowledgeable users in choosing specific feats and scaling to update her profile to.

Also, during that reading I noticed that her Weaknesses section was off, but some recent edits by a new user have altered it to something I consider appropriate. I'm not sure what the best course of action is here, but I'd be content with just sanctifying the changes here (albeit tidying up or perhaps rolling back changes to other sections), and warning the user to make a CRT for that sort of thing in the future.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'd appreciate help from more knowledgeable users in choosing specific feats and scaling to update her profile to.

I'm not sure if you'll find one, since the GA is one of the least understood/known about eras. If anything by the virtue of reading a few comics you'd be one of the most knowledgeable people here.

On my end since the GA is known for its rampant power creep as the era went forward, we may want to use her at the end of the GA. Which would just he Superman AP/Speed scaling + Her Moon/Asteroid Lifting Strength.

 

[Agnaa]

@DontTalkDT @Dark-Carioca Any idea how to calculate this feat? Breaking through a wall made of white dwarf star matter. Just dividing GBE of a white dwarf by how many times smaller the destroyed volume is than a white dwarf gives a result in High 6-B, but I worry that may not be a great method.

Other not-directly-calc-related notes on that feat, for general discussion:

• The feat involved Diana throwing Superman who was charged with energy by Star Spangled Kid's cosmic converter, although both Superman and SSK on their own were unable to do anything to that, so I think WW probably contributed notably to it.
• Narration says that Supes arrived with "a force to shake infinity", I personally doubt that means anything usable, but y'all may disagree.

 

[DontTalkDT]

@DontTalkDT @Dark-Carioca Any idea how to calculate this feat? Breaking through a wall made of white dwarf star matter. Just dividing GBE of a white dwarf by how many times smaller the destroyed volume is than a white dwarf gives a result in High 6-B, but I worry that may not be a great method.

Just dividing GBE doesn't really work. I don't know any way to account for the material strength of such a material either.
Only thing I can think of goes in the direction of GBE, but it needs to be done... at least a little closer to approximating ground truth IMO. I.e. just do GPE.

Of course GPE is a bit tricky here. One can do this with varying amounts of accuracy. The lowest effort solution I would think is acceptable would be to treat the hole as approximately spherical (assuming you can scale its size) and the chunk blasted out as a circle.
The center of mass of the wall would be in the center of the hole then. Center of mass of the circle would be its center. So... I think you could probably just use the usual GPE formula with the distance as "height" (note that only the distance orthogonal to the wall should count, I think, not the distance component parallel with it)... or I would think that, but now I realize that that doesn't work with the initial distance 0. Probably can only treat the objects as point masses once they are sufficiently far separated.
So, either throw out the close term and only do GPE later or I guess one could do integrals... assuming you're willing to solve integrals for this.

At least that's my tired Friday evening idea.

 

[Agnaa]

Straight up GBE gives 9-A.

I think I could pretty easily make the argument that that just ignores the material strength, so we could lowball the material strength by adding frag for the strongest material we have listed, damascus steel, which by itself would give 8-C+, rendering the GBE part irrelevant.

EDIT: I think the itinerary for finishing this thread now is:

1. Discuss whether the higher statements/feats ("force to shake infinity", injuring Spectre, "most powerful of everyone with power in the past, present, and future") should be incorporated to upgrade SM/WW or not.
2. Calculate WW's best lifting feats, which would probably be this or this and might possibly be this using this context.

I think the five feats/statements I've got so far putting SM and WW on the same level are solid enough to glue them together, once we iron out those details.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

A respect thread was recently made a few days ago for this Wonder Woman, which should help quite a bit I imagine.

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah, the creator of it gave me early access, and pointed out some higher feats as they were added later. I skimmed the full version when it came out, but I don't think I missed anything big.

 

[Antvasima]

@Agnaa

So what can currently be applied, and what still needs to be evaluated, here?

 

[Agnaa]

EDIT: I think the itinerary for finishing this thread now is:

1. Discuss whether the higher statements/feats ("force to shake infinity", injuring Spectre, "most powerful of everyone with power in the past, present, and future") should be incorporated to upgrade SM/WW or not.
2. Calculate WW's best lifting feats, which would probably be this or this and might possibly be this using this context.

I would really prefer getting other people's input on that. This is a big verse, and I'm a newcomer to it, so I don't feel comfortable making a big call about Superman's tiering by myself.

But if no-one else comes along, I do have opinions on that which I could run with.