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Goku's got a new hack

However, I am not promising anything. The staff seem to mostly disagree with me so far.
 
I disagree with composite Goku profile, this site is borderline biased towards Dragon Ball fanboys which even bureaucrat Azathoth admitted. Allowing composite Goku profile just because Dragon Ball is popular is ridiculous. Appeasing to a particular fanbase is never a good idea, Dragon Ball fans already get enough leeeway as it is
 
thats to bad some of them don't like it. If it gets done I could give a hand with it if it is a time thing, gather significant diffrences, feats etc as I think it is a good idea.
 
Well to be fair it is not to appease people, that is mearly a nice thing that would come of it as a side effect, it is becouse there are many DB games, specials, the DBS manga versions of goku etc that are not represented in the wiki at all, and these have significant story, power and ability diffrences. Many people know about some or all and would like to see them be represented in some way in the wiki, a composite profile would allow the info to be available without making a dozen profiles for each one.
 
Personally I find a single composite profile for an extremely iconic character fairly harmless, and we do not especially favour Dragon Ball over other franchises. The ratings are not placed any higher than they should be.
 
The fact that this is being discussed shows that the wiki is allowing to be dicatated by Dragon Ball fanboys to please them. I mean no disrespect by this is an terrible idea. Allowing Goku's profile to be composite just because he is popular and has a rabid fanbase is being biased, which does not look good for this wiki. It gives enough privilege to DB fanboys as it is. The staff aren't displeased with the idea without reason, this is not an overreaction.
 
you missed the whole point. It is not to appease anybody(although that would be a side effect), if that was th goal you could just give Goku the highest rating you could possibly warrant, like stacking multipliers onto him etc. this is due to the fact many versions of Goku have significant diffrences, ranging from story, to power to abilities, and are as of yet unrepresented. So ti would add far more info into the wiki.

On top of it He is an iconic character with many significant variations, and under the rules for composite characters that is the main criteria for making a composite profile.
 
Well, the suggestion seems to have been shot down by the staff.
 
I get the entire point, this is 100% appeasing to fanboys by boosting stats using non canon feats, which would be extremely biased. If composite profile was to be made Superman would be the first into consideration as he's far more iconic than Goku and is one of the first fictional superhero who's not from a mythology. We don't need more info on Goku than as it is right now, this is not Dragon Ball wiki.
 
Well, Superman has more profiles in this wiki than any other character, so we are technically favouring him more than Goku.
 
Yeah, I noticed. Ah well, it was a good idea, but not much can be done if they don't want it on the wiki. Although gotta admit I didn't see anything in the rules that would prevent it, he is iconic after all, and claiming there would not be much diffrences would be false since Goku would gain many new abilties, power and alternate histories, which kinda makes there arguments irrelivent tbh.

I mean we got like his new hakai ability in manga, all his GT capabilities, MSSJB from the manga, feats from manga like the champa one, all the movie abiltiies he pulls out, easily 2-C power from SB, In Xenvoerse he can teleport through time and sense others in alternate timelines, those are just a few diffrences off the top of my head.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, Superman has more profiles in this wiki than any other character, so we are technically favouring him more than Goku.
Click to expand...
Superman is not a single character from a single contuity like Goku, it's many different people having the same 'title' as Superman who each have their own background and different stories, unlike Goku where none of the mediums except original manga and Dragon Ball super anime has input from Toriyama and are completely non-canon. Also we don't include non canon events from DC like crossovers here. I could write more but you already get my point.
 
While I don't disagree with composite Goku, making the profile because people are unhappy of him being 3-A is a bad idea because:

1) He'd be stomped harder than before

2) Those are the same people who wants Goku to solo fiction.

3) It is possibly confusing

4) This opens the door to problems like "Why we don't accept composite Superman?"
 
Yes, agreed, but my point is that Superman is much more prominent in this wiki than Goku is.
 
I guess you don't really get it then since you don't seem to grasp this is not to appease anybody, it is due to the fact there are many versions, with significant diffrences and Goku is extremely well known and iconic, thus he meets the criteria outlined by the wiki for a composite profile.

Goku has MANY diffrent abilities, story elements and levels of power across these diffent media which are not curently shown in the wiki in any way, superman has tons of versions all represented individualy, he is clearly favoured, but follows the rules for non canon profiles, as would a composite Goku follow the rules for a composite character to a tee.
 
SSJRyu1 said:
I guess you don't really get it then since you don't seem to grasp this is not to appease anybody,
Click to expand...
Yes it is. You don't seem to read stuff at all.

We currently have 11571 profiles. We feature lots of different franchises. Dragon Ball is simply one of the absolutely most prominent and popular, which is the reason for the higher focus, and is still eternally stuck at 3-A. The fans are frustrated about this, and it is not likely to change any time soon. This would be a good way to appease them.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/B...omment-Antvasima-20170618070018?oldid=1324750
 
I am talking about my reason for suggesting this is a good idea. I read the entire thing. It is completly within the rules, and logical for expanding teh info on the wiki. I never once said my main reason was to appease anybody.
 
Well, I should admittedly have worded this differently from the start, but I mentioned other reasons as well.
 
I think if you were to state the main reason is that there are many versions with significantly diffrent stories, abiltiies and levels of power, and Goku is a iconic character, thus it meets all the criteria for a composite profile that there should be no reasonable reason for them to not allow it even if they are indifferent. Some of them seem to be under the impression it would be a carbon copy profile with 2C stats, but I can promise that it would have significantly more abiltiies, forms, story and level of power if made.
 
I mean, quoting our page about the alternate versions:

Main villains from non-canonical movies of Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, One Piece and the like can be allowed profiles, yet most versions of Son Goku contained in games such as Xenoverse and Shin Budokai should not, as the only difference they hold from Canon Goku lies in their extent of power.
 
@Well...everyone. The difference between Goku and Superman having multiple profiles is that the other Supermen (Supermans?) are vastly different in every single category. They don't share the same stories, they don't always share the same morals, they go through different trials, some don't even make it to the end, etc. Only time Goku did that was in GT, which we have a profile for. Heck, Goku has another profile for his canon kid self. XV Goku is himself throughout most of it. The only exception I could think might be the case is SB or Online, and that's only because I haven't played them.
 
fair enough, but I would think that would make more sense for them to fall under a composite in that case as opposed to getting a seperate profile for each. Also the games have some very big diffrences in his story. Like in SB instead of Super after the defeat of janemba energy reapears and starts warping teh teimlines together and the story starts from there. Or in Xenvoerse Goku remeebers the time pattroler and helps fight mira becouse the pattroler helped him defeat enemies in the past, he even travels to conton city to train and help train the pattroler to. So even the games are significant deviations in story to. And for abilities and power they obviously differ to.
 
Power, I agree. Non-canon as a whole dwarfs canon as a whole for DB, in hax and AP (which I find funny as it's normally the opposite for most fictions, but I digress). Story, I don't, because up until that moment, which is only like, the climax of the story, it's the same plot of DB. Take "Injustice: Gods Among Us" for example. While one action (Joker with a nuke) was what deferred what would otherwise be another Justice League story, both games and the comic series are about everything afterwards. I sincerely don't know if there's a DB game that does that.
 
Well, I am unsubscribing from this thread in any case, as I do not have the time to continue.
 
well my suggestion is lets wait and see what happens after the goku black arc and see if it takes its own approach to the story? i mean as its so different that it might aswell be a different story then maybe we can validate goku having composite profile.
 
Actually due to the nature of of the time travel changes occur throught the entire story in Xenoverse, Online, and soemwhat in SB. Also we have a manga that is currently taken many turns and changes, multiple spinoffs and movies with no goku profile with significant deviations, all of GT, the diffrences in story are significant. THe power and abiltiies to of course. Etiher way it meets the criteria of havign many versions and being iconic for sure so I don;t see a reason why it can't be made. If it is an issue of time making it complete I am willing to help witht that.
 
i tend to agree, i mean we have a character that's been around more than 3 decades that has appeared in different mediums, i dont see a major issue.
 
I'm aware that it does meet the criteria. Again, I could easily go either way on this. Has no effect on me, and the profiles in the 2-C range that I like won't be threatened by him being there. I'm just basically saying what the majority of the staff believe.

Firstly, we do allow GT, but that's not enough to be composite. Link, for example, has 12 undoubtedly canon versions (13, but BotW doesn't have a profile), 13 counting the Hero's Shade, 15 counting Hyrule Warriors, 16 counting Linkle, and 18 adding in the explicitly non-canon ones. Digimon and Pokemon have peeps that are quite literally different individuals and/or came into creation differently than their main canon counterparts. (i.e. Mewtwo has a physical connection to Blaine in the manga, among other things, and Alphamo possesses a model looking girl named Kyoko Kuremi in Cyber Sleuth, among many other things). Plus, both series have canon that's very debatable.
 
that's why i suggested we wait and see if the manga at some point would take a drastic turn in storytelling, i mean if we have a main, gt and alternative super and a game version goku it would give more justification to composite profile?
 
I would prefer a composite of the main story, original works along with their adaptations/spin-off. Also, if there is a Low 2-C Goku some where, the whole point of the hakai would be worthless.
 
Neither the manga nor the anime are the original works that represent the thought of Toriyama. Toyotaro has explained why the differences between anime and manga, Toriyama sends the basis of the story, something like "Goku goes to the future and faces Zamasu," but he does not say how he goes, with what he goes, much less how Fight will develop. Toei and Toyotaro are completely free to decide such things and for this reason there are differences, I believe it is impossible to say what Toriyama's will really means.

This was said in this interview in the 3 minutes and 25 seconds and then in the 5 minutes and 25 seconds, unfortunately I only found the subtitled in Portuguese. Anyway in another interview, Toyotaro has already said that Akira revises the ideas of the manga and removes what he does not agree or arrange something that needs to be improved. I believe that information from the manga can be considered from this point of view
 
Fire Emblem Fan1991 said:
Wooooooooooow
Now you are trying to say dbs isnt canon.

Broken argument mechanics
Click to expand...

I never said that, if you see my comment as a whole you will see that I actually actually said that both are valid.

The truth about DBS is that it is a multimedia work that has the same basis.

The process according to Toyotaro is:

  • Toriyama presents the full story, beginning to end. However he does not present the dialogues and the development.
  • Toei and Toyotaro have to complete the story by adding new things, this planning is completely separate from each other and Toyotaro has already stated that DBS manga and anime are two different works from each other.
Thus both anime and manga have the same origin, have the same informational void and both have to complete the work. After they complete the work Toriyama reviews and permission to release that version.

The literal difference between the two is that one is manga and the other is anime, in the development about the planning said by Toyotaro both versions have the same freedom of development and one is completely unrelated to the other.

What exists is not a primary and secondary canon of the same story, DBS, but two versions that complement Toriyama's ideas.

There is no real way of stating what is or is not canonical, both versions can be. (Not new, Toriyama had already listed the old DB / DBZ / DBGT anime as just a parallel universe to the manga).

But of course, canonical in the point of view that both continue the same version of DB (The manga of Akira Toriyama). Looking for a true DBS canon we will never find an absolute answer other than treating manga and anime as alternate versions of the future of DB Goku (Manga) that coexist.

If you take the version of DBS Anime as the one to be analyzed then it should be analyzed without any influence of the version of the manga. Same case to the contrary. If you wanted to work with both or if you make a profile for each one, or create a Goku Composite profile.

In my view, the current analysis of DBS's feats is already good, but I think it's good to use a note with Toyotaro's words about manga and anime being completely separate so as not to encourage further discussions about the use of manga information in Profiles.

The plot created by Toriyama-sensei is a starting point for both anime and manga, but then we work independently of each other. So history and time are often out of sync, but that does not bother us. The possibilities of anime and manga are different, so each one tries to adapt the scene in the best possible way. So there is almost no direct link between the anime and the manga.
~ Toyotaro​
 
How can Z/S be parallel universes when they were created by AT and had references to the original manga/show, unlike GT which wasn't created by AT?
 
"Z" was not a creation of Akira Toriyama but of Toei, in the original manga there is no separation in DB and DBZ, the manga is simply Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball Z is the continuation of the Dragon Ball anime and this set, mainly the films of the anime, in question is an alternative universe that exists side by side of the original manga this was said by the own Akira Toriyama.

DBS is the continuation of the Majin Boo saga, but DBS Manga and DBS Anime are both sequels to this story, but they exist separately from each other. The relationship between the anime and DBS manga and why they are different were explained by Toyotaro as I explained above, both versions are authorized and reviewed by Akira Toriyama and that exist separately from each other, but both have the same function of continuing the story Of the original manga.
 
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