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Goku's current base is definitely equal to BoG SS by now.

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Proof? Base Goku vs SS2 Caulifla. Even though it was stated that Goku was finessing Caulifla due to Superior battle technique and experience, it still doesn't change the fact that Goku was not only able to harm and match Caulifla as a SS2 in his base form (as evidenced by their fists clashing and them actually fighting for an extended period of time, looking on par with each other), but he was also able to use the Zanzoken (Afterimage Technique)-- a technique based on pure SPEED-- and booted Caulifla away. Again, the Zanzoken is a technique based on pure speed where the user becomes so fast that they create images of themselves all around the enemy. The technique is similar to Goku's "fist of eight arms" attack he stole from Chappa and used on Tien, where he moved his arms so fast that it looked like he grew eight arms. Tien displayed a similar attack against Roshi in their fight, and Roshi was able to keep up with his arms, catch them, and kick him away. Tien was able to react to Goku's afterimages and speed on multiple occasions, proving that this technique is speed based. One would argue that it was a lack of experience that stopped Caulifla from seeing through Goku's Zanzoken. I dispute that by pointing to the fact that Goku should be moving in slow motion in comparison to Caulifla, since she's 80-100x stronger than Goku, bare minimum, and shouldn't even see Goku as a Blur, let alone after images. What does everyone else think? This exists to shut up down players basically.
 
Why am i not surprised someone would bring this up... Have people even watched the battle or not... Cauli fought base Goku in ss1 not ss2 as shown when they both transformed into ss2 to continue the battle.

That aside i don't even realise the point of this thread.

I mean isn't BoG ss like weaker than base Goku already during the tournament with universe 6...
 
No. It was SS2. Ss1 cauli looks like regular cauli with gold hair. Check Google images. The point of this thread was to just discuss some extra evidence for stuff. No revisions.

SS 1 Cauli: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAT545JW0AA1p8U.jpg here

SS2 Caulifla: here

That was SS2 Caulifla that fought Base Goku. Even then, i said equal to regular SS from BoG by now (as a low-ball).

Also, the lightning around SS has always been inconsistent.
 
And her hairstyle didn't change at all during the fight against Goku, nor was their apparent lightning. You just forgot what SS1 Caulifla looked like. Did you even see the fight or read the thread above? At the end, I said this was to shut down players up who don't trust scaling and increases through training-- the type that only want definitive proof, rather than common sense implications.
 
That's a mistake on their part thou as Cauli perfectly keeped up with transformed Goku ss2 and it doesn't have sense, if going by your logic.
 
Well, then Goku's base is still at least equal to SS BoG then. My claim was that this is definitive evidence that Goku is at least as strong as his SS form in base, making his base equal to BoG SSG definitively. I would say that Cauli was going at least 50-80% (as she was having difficulty actually hitting and fighting Goku in his BASE-- no matter what anyone says, that happened.) before he Transformed, and was getting stronger and improving as she was fighting Goku (as stated by Vados, or Whis if I recall-- one of the two). They then pulled out all their power in SS2 just before Kale got involved.

In short, 50-80% (not full power but trying) Caulifla SS2 scales to Full Power base Goku and vice versa because of them having difficulty with each other. Then Full power Cauli (getting more skilled and likely stronger as stated by the Angels) scales to Full Power SS2 Goku. I didn't write the ******* story, but what happened is ******* Canon, so... And even if I concede this point, he has to be equal to SS Cauli then, by your logic, who scales to Cabba bare minimum, who scales to SSVegeta and SSGoku. My point is to shut the down players up. Again, I also lowballed saying that Goku is bare minimum SS BoG level in his base at this point. That was the point of this.
 
Doesnt the manga pretty much confirm this?


By the way. This wiki´s goku page goes from the DB manga to the DB Super Anime.

The Super manga and DB Anime are ignored.
 
I'm not saying that Goku scales to full out SS2, but I am saying that it does mean Goku's base is powerful enough to contend, meaning he roughly scales to Caulifla exerting some kind of effort in her Strength and punches. Plus, Cauli kept improving during the fight, which forced SS2 Goku to come out and play. So...
 
The Manga and anime are different continuities though. We can push for a composite Goku, but understanding that is difficult. Also, where does the Super Manga state that? I would like to know of the scaling for Goku's base in the Manga is roughly the same or something.
 
I figured as much though. But where is that stated or shown in the Manga?
 
Can you link me to that-- because I don't think that's an actual form.
 
He... Is though.... Like, the difference between Solar System Level and Universal is bigger than any goddamn multiplier known to man (possible exaggeration).
 
Hell, if we took Anime Goku´s feats, he would be 4-A by the buu saga.

I seriously dont know why this wikia doesnt separate Goku into anime and manga versions-


Anime - DB Anime - DB Super Anime.

Manga - DB Manga - DB Super Manga.
 
That would work in my head. But then again, composite makes sense to me fam
 
1. SS2 Caulifla fought Goku in base

2. Goku should've been much stronger than his BoG forms several arcs ago
 
Monikaforever said:
Hell, if we took Anime Goku´s feats, he would be 4-A by the buu saga.

I seriously dont know why this wikia doesnt separate Goku into anime and manga versions-


Anime - DB Anime - DB Super Anime.

Manga - DB Manga - DB Super Manga.
DB anime has Frieza in HFIL. Even in Kai. Super has Frieza in that cocoon. Many times. And it's a huge plot point.

No way is the DB anime the primary canon for Super's continuity.
 
I was just making this thread to give further proof for down players. Can you believe people are using this scene to downplay Goku?! My god.
 
"Even though it was stated that Goku was finessing Caulifla due to Superior battle technique and experience"

It was explained in the episode as you stated. Perhaps Caulifla wasn't as focused as she should have been as we know a ki user's durability drops when they aren't as focused as they should be. Lack of focus from certain characters is a canon way to explain a lot of the inconsistencies. This is why I think ultra instinct exists because Goku really can't get much more powerful ki wise but we know his biggest weakness is his lack of focus, which ultra instinct fixes apparently.
 
Except UI Goku did get more powerful, and continued to do so while fighting.
 
Unite My Rice said:
Except UI Goku did get more powerful, and continued to do so while fighting.
I know and I believe UI is the reason why and how he will get a form higher than SSJB, especially since they kept hyping SSJ3 last episode (I think the new form will draw inspiration from that). But I still don't think base Goku is as strong as BoG SS or at least it is debateable.
 
Heatforce said:
I know and I believe UI is the reason why and how he will get a form higher than SSJB, especially since they kept hyping SSJ3 last episode (I think the new form will draw inspiration from that). But I still don't think base Goku is as strong as BoG SS or at least it is debateable.
Noonononononononononononono
 
Goku should be 3-A at base imo.


The manga, anime and complementary material imply he has absorbed the god form into his base form.
 
He is tho, whats the purpose of this on the wiki?
 
I dunno, that´s the topic of the thread, isnt it?


Anyways.


I still think there should be a manga goku page and a anime goku page.
 
Btw, made the page faaar more readable by doing something about those images. You're welcome ovo
 
The explanation given doesn't explain how he is able to Speed Blitz Caulifla using the Afterimage Technique, clash fists with her head on, and fight for an extended period of time, tanking blows from her (when SS2 characters can literally obliterate SS level characters-- remember the Cell Jrs.?!), and other things as well. Caulifla was confirmed to be getting better and stronger during the fight-- so her being "not as focused as she should" implies that she was ever capable of being focused like that at all-- especially when you go on to say that her power is lower when she's not focused. So, no. The inconsistencies involving Goku going SS2 against Caulifla afterwards mean one, some, or all of these 4 things;

1. Goku was tired and putting out SS2 might not help much when fighting Caulifla.

2. Goku was holding back/Training Caulifla (up until Kale Showed up, this idea holds).

3. Caulifla was getting stronger, to the point where the boost between SS2 to base might not have mattered once she pulled out even more power than she might have known she had. This claim is supported by her reaction to Goku pulling out his aura in addition to her clearly putting effort against Goku's base. She pulled out a lot of power when Goku began gathering Chi (when their auras were growing in size). It was clear that she was pulling out even more power than before, implying that she was trying to surpass her limits or something to that extent-- as Dragon Ball Characters do when they're going all out, charge up even more power than they had before. Common trope.

And...

4. Being Superior in skill doesn't automatically make you compatible in Strength. You can make the argument that it was battle experience that helped Roshi win against that Dragon Kid, because you can say he used his Strength against him and deflected his attacks away, rather than blocking and straight up clashing with them like Goku did. I'm not one to go against WoG or statements in the show itself, but it's clear that their explanation doesn't make any sense with what we know. Not saying that Goku's skill didn't play a part of it-- but how can Skill allow me to match someone 100x stronger than me fist to fist.
 
This thread, again, is just a big piece of evidence to shut the down players up. That's basically it.
 
Is Frieza in hell on Kai? Because super makes references to anime only events, like Ginyu possessing Bulma.
 
Remember that they could have easly retconned HFIL.


This changes nothing.


Kai is canon.


Anime Goku is 4-A
 
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