Goku Vs. Sailor Moon.

[Faisal_Shourov]

This is why the VSBattle Wiki is so infamous.
You will not accept that people have debunked Goku and Beerus' strength, just because you are still butthurt about Goku losing to Superman, so you have to act like Goku is the single most powerful character in fiction. I can name atleast 3 people who can beat Goku...and that is just off the top of my head; Madoka, Usagi Tsukino, Bobobo

You have a better calc for Goku and Beerus strength? If you can post it I have no problem. But if you can't then your argument is pointless because you dont have any proof

 

[Majora_Moon]

This is why the VSBattle Wiki is so infamous.
You will not accept that people have debunked Goku and Beerus' strength, just because you are still butthurt about Goku losing to Superman, so you have to act like Goku is the single most powerful character in fiction. I can name atleast 3 people who can beat Goku...and that is just off the top of my head; Madoka, Usagi Tsukino, Bobobo

1. You have still not linked anything that debunked it
2. Goku atomizes Superman, Death Battle wanked Superman to an omnipotent god, of course we are angry.

3. This wiki thinks Elder God Demonbane, IO, etc. is the strongest, not Goku

I HATE Superman, and I dislike Madoka, but I have to say they both beat Goku. Goku VS Superman is, as they desribed "Pitting a guy who can pass any limit against a guy with NO limits"

Also, Usagi's Lambda Powers are INSTANTANIOUS! Meaning, Goku does not even have a chance to speedblitz her, since even if he is going a bazzilllion-gazillion-septillion lightyears a millisecond, it is still an amount of time. It takes NO time at all for Usagi to just erase his mind and soul via her Lambda power. Even if he manages to get LUCKY and destroys her, she instantly can regenerate herself from NOTHINGNESS. Goku has no omnipitant abilities that will allow him to remove her from existance.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

as i have stated many times, all goku needs to do is clap

 

[The_Everlasting]

1. Superman has very clearly defined limits. Saying he doesn't have any is just the purest BS.

2. Good luck when she needs to preform it. Again, Goku can just KO her.

 

[Oblivion00]

1. You have still not linked anything that debunked it
2. Goku atomizes Superman, Death Battle wanked Superman to an omnipotent god, of course we are angry.

3. This wiki thinks Elder God Demonbane, IO, etc. is the strongest, not Goku

I HATE Superman, and I dislike Madoka, but I have to say they both beat Goku. Goku VS Superman is, as they desribed "Pitting a guy who can pass any limit against a guy with NO limits"

Also, Usagi's Lambda Powers are INSTANTANIOUS! Meaning, Goku does not even have a chance to speedblitz her, since even if he is going a bazzilllion-gazillion-septillion lightyears a millisecond, it is still an amount of time. It takes NO time at all for Usagi to just erase his mind and soul via her Lambda power. Even if he manages to get LUCKY and destroys her, she instantly can regenerate herself from NOTHINGNESS. Goku has no omnipitant abilities that will allow him to remove her from existance.

Superman has limitless potential not limitless power. Hell the guidebook for Superman's powers even says that Superman has limits lol

 

[Majora_Moon]

as i have stated many times, all goku needs to do is clap

Which will take at least a fraction of a nanosec, during which Usagi can have just used her Lambda powers to erase him from existance if she wanted.

You guys just don't seem to understand the concept of instantanious. As in instant, NO amount of time passes. Even Goku throwing a punch takes a small fraction of time, and that is still slower than instantious. You do not understand what kind of power Lambda Power gives Usagi do you? She is pretty much THE Goddess, as in "the creator of everything" type of god with that power. So you are saying that Goku can beat litterally GOD! No I don't mean Kami or a God of Destruction, I mean strait up God!

 

[The_Everlasting]

The attack itself may or may not be instantaneous, but she needs time to preform it. Thus, it's pretty useless when faced with a stronger opponent.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

as i have stated many times, all goku needs to do is clap

Which will take at least a fraction of a nanosec, during which Usagi can have just used her Lambda powers to erase him from existance if she wanted.
You guys just don't seem to understand the concept of instantanious. As in instant, NO amount of time passes. Even Goku throwing a punch takes a small fraction of time, and that is still slower than instantious. You do not understand what kind of power Lambda Power gives Usagi do you? She is pretty much THE Goddess, as in "the creator of everything" type of god with that power. So you are saying that Goku can beat litterally GOD! No I don't mean Kami or a God of Destruction, I mean strait up God!

The attack may be instantaneous but she has to active it, and she is gonna be speed blitz before she even has time to react.

 

[Majora_Moon]

Why am I even arguing with you. You are the people who think Tifa is planet level, when she is Multi-City Block level.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Why would she be that low when she's reliable enough to her group to fight against Sephiroth, Jenova and the Weapons? Also, pointing out other debates on this website just to get out of this is a rather bad idea.

 

[Oblivion00]

Why am I even arguing with you. You are the people who think Tifa is planet level, when she is Multi-City Block level.

Tifa - Multi-City Block level LOL

Let me guess, you agreed with the Tifa vs Yang death battle

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Why am I even arguing with you. You are the people who think Tifa is planet level, when she is Multi-City Block level.

Dude calm down. Let me give you an advice. if you think ANY profile is biased and unjustified, create a blog and post your own calcs and thoughts. Everybody would take you seriously then.

If you want to change stuff, then don't complain and make an effort

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

This thread hasn't died yet? Goku outclasses her in everything excluding hax. He wins unless this is by incapacitation.

 

[Majora_Moon]

Why am I even arguing with you. You are the people who think Tifa is planet level, when she is Multi-City Block level.

Tifa - Multi-City Block level LOL
Let me guess, you agreed with the Tifa vs Yang death battle

Because the fight was one of the most accurite they have ever done. The only reason people think Tifa is Plant level is because of faulty power-scaling to Cloud, who did 99% of the work for the whole group. "But Tifa can hurt planet-buster Sephoroph", because gameplay mechanics. Saying she is a planet buster is like saying Kirby has or Mario have 0 durability because they can be hurt by Waddle Dees and Goombas. it is gameplay mechanics plain and simple. If Tifa can beat Sephoroph, well, I guess Yamcha can beat Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, because he can do it in a video game.

 

[Oblivion00]

This thread hasn't died yet? Goku outclasses her in everything excluding hax. He wins unless this is by incapacitation.

This thread should have died a LONG time ago.

 

[The_Everlasting]

How is the powerscaling faulty? From a story standpoint, she had to be very powerful in order to actually be of any use. You're blatantly abusing gameplay mechanics on that one when there are no mechanics to be found, from a story standpoint, she was powerful enough to where they didn't just leave her while they fought the One-Winged Angel.

Don't make me bust out CGG's comment.

 

[The_Everlasting]

You know what, nevermind, I'm doing it.

Part 1 of CGG's comment:

>Completely inaccurate powerscaling

This dude is clearly a troll, but I will humour him regardless

No matter what you do, the game forces Tifa to be as strong as her party members, even if you neglect her as much as possible

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197341-final-fantasy-vii/48977214

Your party members level up even if you don't bring them into battle. This happens in every RPG ever made, which is why it's so obvious that I can't even believe I never considered it until now despite my decade of obsession with RPGs. My mind must have blocked out the fact that people were actually denying this and instead going with "yeah Tifa is peak human at best because she got into a slap fight in a gag scene lololol" because it's like denying that RPG characters have HP bars or can use items/equipment.

Simply put, the excuse "You don't know which fights Tifa participated in or not" is asinine because guess what? Once again, no matter what you do, even if you completely neglect her, the game forces her to be as strong as the rest of the party

So yeah, not only is it nonsensical to argue that Tifa is literally quadrillions of times weaker and a thousand times slower than an underage ninja and a chainsmoker and all that jazz, but now it's clear that it's outright impossible for that to be the case.

Made even further clear by the fact that in the first few minutes of the Advent Children movie, you actually see Tifa fighting the final boss with other members of the party and nobody has any major speed discrepancies

It's not gameplay and story segragation or loljustgamemechanics (whatever the heck that means. Seriously, gameplay feats are often an extremely viable way of gauging a character's power. If it's something like Roll being able to beat Thanos in a crossover game then yeah just ignore it, but when it's something like the Chosen Undead being able to swing a giant hammer around with enough force to pulverize a building? Absolutely nothing contradicts that lore wise, it is perfectly acceptable to use, otherwise you are basically trying to say that Aunt May can solo Dark Souls with ease since it's all gameplay feats, but I am going off on a tangent here)

It's just the games way of explaining that the party has to fight shit too even without you, and that they face similar threats if not the same. Only problem is that, guess what? The game would be impossible to program if you had 9 members fighting in a party at once, Square knew that 3 members was how to make the game actually work out via common sense.

I also pieced these together if anybody cares to read/address/counter/whatever it

Why Tifa is continent level and massively hypersonic without powerscaling at all:

Also, you don't need powerscaling to say that Tifa is continent level. The thing about the rocket scene? It exerted exatons of force, and while it should be extremely obvious that it applies to the dc of the Huge Materias since the developers specifically made it so that the Huge Materia could perform that feat so Shinra wouldn't have to waste a large amount of thousand precious materia, the thing is that the average materia is continent level via that feat anyways. If you didn't rescue any of the huge materia, it just means that Shinra merely loaded 1320 materia on the rocket instead.

But hey, what if more than 1320 materia was on the rocket ship? You know what, let's go with that theory even though it's supported absolutely nowhere

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=20802

Let's apply a little math here. The average materia is 330 times weaker than the Huge Materia, so that just means if you don't rescue the Huge Materia, Shinra basically loaded 1320 regular materia to compensate.

4.45 exatons were exerted, or 4450 petatons

4450 / 1320 = 3.37121212 petatons, or the exact same result that Fenrir obtained. Continent level

But let's say that 13200 materia was loaded instead, even though there is no reason to imply this anywhere. Then it drops to 337 teratons. Large country level

132000 materia? Still country level, above even the ridiculous small country level that was being pushed for peak Yang here.

Keep in mind that due to the rocket's volume, there is absolutely no way they just loaded it with 1,320,000 materia, I seriously doubt that even Shinra could gather up that much anyways. Even using 13200 materia is being far too generous in my opinion considering the volume that a rocket can hold, so yeah. 1320 materia it stays

But wait, wouldn't she need a large amount of willpower to access its full power you ask? Why yes, as confirmed in On The Way To A Smile:http://www.finalfantasykingdom.net/caseofyuffie.php

Materia is directly proportional to the amount of willpower possessed:

"Some of the people possessed wounds that even the materia Yuffie had couldn't heal but, she was sure they would heal gradually if cared for well. The problem was Yuffie herself didn't have the mental power. Materia was the crystallization of the Lifestream. To withdraw the power from the stabilized crystal, some form of shock is required and this is triggered by the mind waves of the user. As a result of that, the materia user's mind is significantly weakened."

Now Tifa's willpower? Well to give you an idea, she willed herself through the lifestream to rescue Cloud and was just fine afterwards. By comparison, fairly late game Cloud went catatonic from a mere splash in it. Tifa then helped Cloud piece together his mind and separate his memories from those of Zack's, which also allowed Tifa to remember the truth of what happened years earlier in Nibelheim. So, yeah, Tifa definitely has the mental fortitude to use Materia. Cloud had even taught them how to use it after the team had destroyed their 1st Mako reactor. So Cloud had taught the rest of the team what was required to use it and they end up using materia through the rest of the game. And as the AC movie showed us, they had a whole stockpile of materia.

Scene here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A53Xc_0HA-M

And as explained by Bugenhagen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5u8c3E5CK8

This also applies to her durability since, you know, she's mainly a brawler. She can harm beings capable of tanking her materia with her fists, she can in other words exert this much force with her fists especially with the likes of limit breaks. Since she can punch this hard without her fists exploding? Her fists, and by proxy the rest of her body, have continent level durability as well. Unless you think Tifa chooses to remain a brawler when her average spell is quadrillions of times stronger than her fists, which once again makes all of negative zero sense at best. Though even if that was the case, her sheer kinetic energy puts her at city block level

0.5 * 82 * 34000^2 = 47396000000 or 47.4 gigajoules/billion joules which is 11.3279159 tons of TNT equivalent

Continent level Tifa without powerscaling

And of course, since it's established that the Whirlwind Maze feat applies to the entire cast?

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=19207

Massively hypersonic Tifa without powerscaling

Why these are not outliers

Throw in the following things, and there is no way you could possibly argue that these are outliers for Tifa

Bahamut Zero, who is at best on par with the weapons and is only an early disc 2 tier summon, has this continent level feat: http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=20493

Odin, who is only from early disc 1 has this country level feat, and he can throw his Grunge Lance without his arm exploding from the force, putting his durability at that level as well. Tifa >>>>> him: http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=24611 To put this into perspective, Sephiroth scales to Jenova's multi-continent level TK feat, and this a very end of the game feat meaning that it cannot really be considered an outlier here. Hard to debunk feats from the very end where characters are at their peak by using earlier feats, now isn't it? And yes, Sephiroth was bloodlusted, trying to kill them. For those that don't play RPGs, but more or less every RPG ever made has fights where the party can or has to lose and the game continues. Case in point? Scenes like this where it's impossible to beat Lavos (unless you are on new game+ more or less, but that's beside the point) and the game continues after you lose: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snZM2FE5pjo With the Sephiroth fight? If Sephiroth kills you mid-fight, it's game over. Thus, we can deduce that Sephiroth was bloodlusted. He was visibly trying to hold the FF7 cast back, but they managed to break through and fight him head on. The fact they were destroyed by his TK attempts puts their durability at continent level, and Tifa will always be there to charge through in that scene. The party also says that he was far more powerful than Jenova who they just killed, meaning that Sephiroth's TK was indeed in the exaton grade or so scaling from Jen But if you for some reason don't believe that it was exaton grade, guess what? A far more casual Sephiroth while screwing around with Cloud has this TK feat in the island level range at least, likely far higher given that it was a Negative Lifestream related feat:http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=17173&page=2 More country level feats from the weapons: http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=19475 The party could defeat the weapons or at least hold their own and trade blows with them while Cloud wasn't in the party. To say that this doesn't scale to Tifa is implying that she is literally quadrillions of times weaker than Yuffie, Cid, Barret, Cait Sith, and Nanaki/Red XIII. And hundreds of times slower than them as well If she was quadrillions of times weaker and hundreds of times slower than the rest of the party, she would be one-shotted and blitzed by every boss later in the game giving the party trouble. Hell, why would she and Cid be in the leader positions? It defies common sense to put her at slower and weaker than Yang on every imaginable facet of the imagination.The lowest possible calc puts the average materia at city level and is contested for being way too generous and is outdated anyways due to revisions putting it at country level and continent level, which cannot be outliers due to further feats on that level: http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=18565 Even the turks of all people tanked large town busters to the face, lol:http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=17235 Even they one shot any RWBY character, and Rude outright says that he considers Tifa a true rival. How anybody could imply that Tifa is a million times weaker than the Turks is beyond me Oh, and mach 52 feat to prove Tifa's mach 100 feat is consistent: http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=16608

 

[The_Everlasting]

Part 2:

tldr, the feats in Layman's terms

I will try to make this as simple as possible. Bahamut Zero created an explosion over a thousand kilometers across with his mere breath: http://i.imgur.com/1cqrkmz.jpg Australia is 4 million meters across, meaning that explosion was 1/4 the size of Australia. This is far from one of the strongest summons and is more on par with the likes of Weapons that Tifa could defeat without Cloud's help. When the party killed Ultimate Weapon, he was knocked hard enough to flatten much of a continent:http://youtu.be/BXZZIvsfVrg?t=966 Size screencap: http://i.imgur.com/8M6hWsv.png The Huge Materia did this to meteor should you collect them all:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVpDOrZHc4E&feature=youtu.be&t=1m24s Notice the sheer size of the explosion. It's specifically stated that the Huge Materia is 330 times stronger. By dividing that yield by 330 times, we still get low continent level. http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff7/tex ... 7disc2.txt Scarlet "Huge Materia is a high density special type of materia made through a special compression process in Mako reactors." (She makes an "I caught a fish THIS BIG" pose) Scarlet "The energy extracted from it is 330 times the strength of normal materia." Same Scarlet is a highly intelligent scientist with no reason to lie about this. Odin's Grunge Lance dispersed a thunderstorm this large in under a second, and he's one of the weaker summons: http://i.imgur.com/tPuwycQ.png" "There's more than one Bahamut. And she helped.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyP18j7y1FA Just gameplay mechanics? Yeah, no

Let's examine whether these count as gameplay feats, since while I support using gameplay feats, some people don't here it seems

The Weapons creating a crater in the range of thousands of kilometers merely by waking up: in a full fledged CGI FMV cutscene. Not even remotely a gameplay feat

The party knocking Ultimate Weapon hard enough to crater a large portion of a continent: happens in a cutscene, after you defeat Ultimate Weapon you see it crash onto the world map and an enormous crater where a large chunk of the continent used to be. Not gameplay mechanics at all, agai

Jenova and Sephiroth's TK feats: Jenova's was in a PS2 CGI cutscene, Sephiroth's was in the last cutscene before you battle him. Again, not gameplay related.

Meteor's firepower and the average materia: Happens in a CGI FMV full fledged cutscene as well.

Odin's Grunge Lance: A QTE which a special non-interactive animation. Not really gameplay mecahnics.

Bahamut Zero's flare: Same as the above

You gentleman have been owned. Good day to you sir

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

The Everlasting Please don't write a block of text, hard to see through the relevant comments. Also we're getting off topic, thread is getting derailed

 

[Oblivion00]

Everlasting going all out here lol. Anyway Tifa vs Yang being the most accurate death battle they've done? Not even close.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Faisal

Sorry about that, got annoyed again and felt the need to post that.

@Oblivion

I'm just way too tired at seeing people complain about Tifa's stats because they completely deny powerscaling.

 

[Majora_Moon]

How is the powerscaling faulty? From a story standpoint, she had to be very powerful in order to actually be of any use. You're blatantly abusing gameplay mechanics on that one when there are no mechanics to be found, from a story standpoint, she was powerful enough to where they didn't just leave her while they fought the One-Winged Angel.
Don't make me bust out CGG's comment.

Yeah, and much like the other party members aside from Cloud, their combined effort is only about 1% of the stuff they did. It was almost completly Cloud's work. Tifa, is just as useful as Aerith...no I would say Aerith's CORPSE is about what I should compair her to.

Alright, I am playing Dragon Quest IX, and I made Videl as my main character. Oh look at that, Videl just killed Corvus, who is pretty much the devil. Seriously, the FF7 fanboys need to get over it. Cloud and Tifa are not that powerful. Same with the DBZ fanboys who think Goku can beat Superman, or move fast enough to stop an instantanious attack. He can stop Frieza's Death Beam because it is "NEAR instantanious", but Usagi's Lambda power is makes her untouchable. She can just erase him from ever being born if she wanted.

Also, I didn't want to play this card, but you guys have left me no choice. Let's not forget that Goku WILL let her fight at full power. "But that is not fair", hey it isn't MY fault that Goku only fights enemies at their full strength. Blame Akira Torriyama!

 

[The_Everlasting]

Please read my above comments to see why the powerscaling is legit and why Tifa lolstomps Yang. Also, last I checked, Cloud only really did the most work when confronted by Sephiroth in his own subconscious, there's still the fact that if Tifa and the others were so much weaker they'd be blitzed and one-shot by every late-game boss.

Not that powerful... look at Zack's page, checked the linked calc, and then tell me what you think. She still needs to preform the attack, which is meaningless when Goku us so much faster.

Bruh, there's also a no morals fight.

 

[Nibbler3100]

Quasimodo does have a point, although he states it in a rude manner, with all the hacked abliities Usagi's full power possesses like The Lambda and since the ability is very fast to activate it would destroy Goku the only thing is if Usagi knows to use it right off the bat before Goku wrecks her but I don't see a blitz happening since he's Multi-Galaxy and she's possibly Multi-Galaxy she'll be able to take a few shots before going down

 

[Oblivion00]

Quasimodo does have a point, although he states it in a rude manner, with all the hacked abliities Usagi's full power possesses like The Lambda and since the ability is very fast to activate it would destroy Goku the only thing is if Usagi knows to use it right off the bat before Goku wrecks her but I don't see a blitz happening since he's Multi-Galaxy and she's possibly Multi-Galaxy she'll be able to take a few shots before going down

You do know her durability is star level right?

 

[The_Everlasting]

She's only Galaxy Level and has garbage durability of Star Level, Goku's At least Multi-Galaxy Level and massively faster.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Wanked Papyrus solos. Fite me, literally everyone.

On a more serious note, is there a reason this is even still open?

 

[AnimeFanboy2916]

Goku's DC and durability will soon change anyways. SSB is supposed to be 50x stronger than SSG. I say this because Goku said SSB is just God power combined with the super Saiyan power.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Azathoth

Lol.

There really doesn't seem to be a reason. Now it's just devolved into a debate with a Moon wanker and randomly arguing about the quality of our wiki as a whole and Tifa's rankings. That and initially som bad DBZ downplay.

I request this be locked before it descends into even worse chaos.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I request this be locked before it descends into even worse chaos.

YOU ARE AN ADMIN, EVERLASTING.

Anyway, I'll lock it. lol