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Is there any soul manipulation in the profile of Naruto characters? I did not see it? How is the time given? Where did it decide?
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Goku Vs Ichigo
- Thread starter IchigoFanBoy
- Start date
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Rinnegan users have soul ripping techniques through the human path and the summoned Gedo Mazo (it can release an intangible dragon that rips out souls on contact). They also have reincarnation techniques that essentially restore the souls of those recently deceased.
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The Death God technique should also count as soul sealing. Also Orochimaru losing the "soul" of his arms meant he couldn't use Chakra in his arms anymore.
SirAlex09
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I feel like most don't get how Reiatsu Ki or Chakra even works.
Ki and Chakra are not exactly the Soul but they are strongly tied to it and somewhat correlate to the strength of your soul. (Note That's why they should be resistant to spiritual pressure ( Reiyroku) which is a direct application of spiritual energy ( Reiatsu).)
For example Obito can travel from afterlife to the real world via Kamui and possess Kakashi via his chakra. We see Naruto meet Minato , Kushina and even Hagoromo just because he has their chakra.
I will later write a blog in this Wiki concerning the terrible no limit fallacy of Reiatsu crush and why it shouldn't work on anyone by default with Evidence, Guides and Manga chapters from different Verses and Bleach itself proving my point.
People like Naruto, Yusuku , Goku and even Superman should be resistant to it even if they didnt show resistance to traditional Soul hax in general which is the main problem here.
Reiatsu crush shouldn't be treated as Soul hax but rather a form of energy attack that has soul interaction and also has slight empathy / fear manipulation similar to Conqueror's haki from One piece. ( which Ki and chakra have shown as well. Example Ino Yamanaka collapsed at how evil Isshiki's chakra is after feeling it. ).
Also spiritual pressure isn't the pressure of your soul but of your spiritual energy radiating from your soul which has a distinct difference.
You are basically crushing your opponent with energy radiating from your soul which both chakra and Ki can do as well. It's not that your soul crushes the other soul itself via hax but rather an energy manipulation feat.
Why this matters you might wonder? Because traditional Soul hax can bypass your physical durability and attack your intangible soul.
Reiatsu crush on the other hand is pure energy manipulation. So anyone who has non conventional durability that is based on energy rather than pure muscles like Superman ( bio electric aura based on Solar energy protecting his clothes and flesh ) , Flashes ( Speed force Aura ) , Goku ( Ki) or even Naruto ( chakra) should be resistant to it.
Also keep in mind that Souls in Bleach work different. They can age, give birth, be wounded and even die a physical death. They can also interact with the physical world. They are just invisible. Souls in other Verses are intangible. So to assume that Reiatsu crush works on every kind of Soul of different verses is as flawed as believing Saitama can one shot One above all.
This is my last comment to this thread though since the discussion here is fruitless because Reiatsu crush was already accepted by the wiki as pure Soul hax.
I will debunk it later though in a detailed separate blog.
Ki and Chakra are not exactly the Soul but they are strongly tied to it and somewhat correlate to the strength of your soul. (Note That's why they should be resistant to spiritual pressure ( Reiyroku) which is a direct application of spiritual energy ( Reiatsu).)
For example Obito can travel from afterlife to the real world via Kamui and possess Kakashi via his chakra. We see Naruto meet Minato , Kushina and even Hagoromo just because he has their chakra.
I will later write a blog in this Wiki concerning the terrible no limit fallacy of Reiatsu crush and why it shouldn't work on anyone by default with Evidence, Guides and Manga chapters from different Verses and Bleach itself proving my point.
People like Naruto, Yusuku , Goku and even Superman should be resistant to it even if they didnt show resistance to traditional Soul hax in general which is the main problem here.
Reiatsu crush shouldn't be treated as Soul hax but rather a form of energy attack that has soul interaction and also has slight empathy / fear manipulation similar to Conqueror's haki from One piece. ( which Ki and chakra have shown as well. Example Ino Yamanaka collapsed at how evil Isshiki's chakra is after feeling it. ).
Also spiritual pressure isn't the pressure of your soul but of your spiritual energy radiating from your soul which has a distinct difference.
You are basically crushing your opponent with energy radiating from your soul which both chakra and Ki can do as well. It's not that your soul crushes the other soul itself via hax but rather an energy manipulation feat.
Why this matters you might wonder? Because traditional Soul hax can bypass your physical durability and attack your intangible soul.
Reiatsu crush on the other hand is pure energy manipulation. So anyone who has non conventional durability that is based on energy rather than pure muscles like Superman ( bio electric aura based on Solar energy protecting his clothes and flesh ) , Flashes ( Speed force Aura ) , Goku ( Ki) or even Naruto ( chakra) should be resistant to it.
Also keep in mind that Souls in Bleach work different. They can age, give birth, be wounded and even die a physical death. They can also interact with the physical world. They are just invisible. Souls in other Verses are intangible. So to assume that Reiatsu crush works on every kind of Soul of different verses is as flawed as believing Saitama can one shot One above all.
This is my last comment to this thread though since the discussion here is fruitless because Reiatsu crush was already accepted by the wiki as pure Soul hax.
I will debunk it later though in a detailed separate blog.
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Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.
Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses. For example, mind control resistance by being a capable mind user would also work against other Verses, but mind control resistance through a strong will would not necessarily work against mind control from other Verses. It is also important to note that characters won't lose or gain any abilities or resistances which they do or do not inherently possess. However, if an ability has a weakness, condition, caveat, or limitation, stated by at least a valid and uncontradicted statement, then it should be applicable after the equalization.
Equalization works highly on a case-by-case basis, so many relevant cases should be discussed in the versus thread itself.
Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses. For example, mind control resistance by being a capable mind user would also work against other Verses, but mind control resistance through a strong will would not necessarily work against mind control from other Verses. It is also important to note that characters won't lose or gain any abilities or resistances which they do or do not inherently possess. However, if an ability has a weakness, condition, caveat, or limitation, stated by at least a valid and uncontradicted statement, then it should be applicable after the equalization.
Equalization works highly on a case-by-case basis, so many relevant cases should be discussed in the versus thread itself.
Doesn’t matter if they’re similar mostly. You need to prove they also grant said resistance to soul manipulation.
SirAlex09
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Yah I am well aware it's mostly a bureaucratic problem created by the wiki rules which is why it needs a more detailed reasoning why Reiatsu crush shouldn't work. But this Thread is about Goku vs Ichigo based on what was accepted by the wiki. So it's the wrong thread for me to prove it. I will open one later
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I think for the specific purposes of this thread, Goku doesn't actually resist Soul hax. Nobody so far actually resists Vegeta's forced spirit fission - which is the soul manipulation technique. Well maybe Vegeta does, but that's it
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No feats
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The former 5-B feat was re interpreted as Low 2-C which was recently found to be a largely incorrect interpretation and is currently an invalid feat for scaling
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Why would anyone seriously take money for that kind of shit ?
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That doesn't make any sense
SirAlex09
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He said that from a debater's perspective. In a contest of debate you don't have to personally share the opinion that you are debating for.
From his point of view Kukui4life conceded too many points and when he indirectly conceded that the Soul society is universal in size, he lost the debate according to Seth. Because arguing against everything that follows after the conceding is fighting a losing battle.
He should have used different arguments to prove his points since Seth personally doesn't think that Ichigo is universal either.
So the fact that bleach fans paid him money to debunk an opinion/view that he shares himself is kinda weird.
Rikimarox2
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You can feel the pain in his voice when he reached the 8802 words Google Doc.
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also for soul crush Aizen (you know who is supposed to be a genius) thought it was totally legit that Ichigo lost all of his spiritual energy and did not instantly die he didn't question why is he surviving with what Aizen thought was raw power
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The fact that he accepted it is kinda weird, but he's probably approaching it from a strictly professional perspective. Like lawyers sometimes take up cases defending people they might personally believe to be guilty but they defend them in court anyway. Although for something trivial like this I'd probably not do it
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Lol, I remember when this 8K words dissertation was posted. Just made me laugh. I'm against the downgrades but even I wouldn't go so far to defend this. It's not the end of the world.
