Goku and Toppo have their rematch.

[Zamasu_Chan]

Evidence that the amp wasn't from UIO2? I asked for this earlier and you didn't give anything.

Blue Goku is portrayed as comparable to the other blue level fighters. Plus Goku powered up immensely against Jiren and that's when he started fighting him no problem. Also it would make Anilaza low 2-C.

I explicitly said Vegeta was not incapable of doing it. And as I said many times already, going by Vegeta's own wording, he did not "encounter" Kefla.

Occam's razor.

Obviously, when I say suppressed Jiren, I mean Jiren before he used a hint of his true power. And Jiren was clearly shown to take damage from one of UIO1's attacks, so... it clearly doesn't because Vegeta's own words wouldn't include Kefla. To say otherwise would be to twist what is actually shown in the series.

Jiren was shocked when he got hit, not actually hurt. Jiren actually looks more hurt here than he did against Goku. And like I said Jiren effortlessly caught a punch from UIO1. Suppressed Jiren > UIO1.

Caulifla adapts. Duh. This was stated and shown in the series. Pretty sure I've also mentioned this before, and with how much you like to contest me on this, I'd think you'd know that already.

Nice of you to ignore my reasons as to why base Caulifla is comparable to post UIO1 base Goku.

 

[LordTracer]

Blue Goku is portrayed as comparable to the other blue level fighters. Plus Goku powered up immensely against Jiren and that's when he started fighting him no problem. Also it would make Anilaza low 2-C.

> Goku and Vegeta were portrayed as equal against SSJ Broly, yet they most definitely were not equal going by earlier feats. And Low 2-C Aniraza is a problem... why?

Occam's razor.

> Occam's razor favors me, actually. Vegeta was not shown sensing Kefla, so it requires less assumptions to say he didn't. And again, going by Vegeta's own words, he never encountered Kefla, saying he did requires more assumptions.

Jiren was shocked when he got hit, not actually hurt. Jiren actually looks more hurt here than he did against Goku. And like I said Jiren effortlessly caught a punch from UIO1. Suppressed Jiren > UIO1.

> Jiren was even more suppressed against Vegeta than he was UIO1 Goku, so... and evidence that Jiren was just shocked and not harmed? Also Jiren caught a punch from Goku as UIO1 faded out, so...

Nice of you to ignore my reasons as to why base Caulifla is comparable to post UIO1 base Goku.

> Nice of you to ignore how I explained that's completely irrelevant to why Goku has the AP advantage here.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Make a CRT and Anilaza then. If you're so confident in this logic then make a CRT and take it up with the big dogs.

Evidence that suppressed Jiren in 110 is equal to Jiren in 122?

You're just repeating everything expecting me to suddenly change my mind. I shouldn't waste my time arguing with ignorance.

 

[LordTracer]

Make a CRT and Anilaza then. If you're so confident in this logic then make a CRT and take it up with the big dogs.

> Yes, because attempting upgrade Dragon Ball always goes so well.

Evidence that suppressed Jiren in 110 is equal to Jiren in 122?

> Jiren in 110 was fighting on par with UIO1. Jiren in 122 was fighting on par with Post-UIO2 Goku, who was comparable to UIO1.

You're just repeating everything expecting me to suddenly change my mind. I shouldn't waste my time arguing with ignorance.

> I have to repeat myself because you have, on several occasions, come after me on this exact same topic. And if you didn't want to "waste your time," then you shouldn't have started this discussion in the first place.

 

[JackJoyce]

You're right but there's one big problem with this. Goku's amp after UIO2 didn't make him low 2-C. He was still 3-A in blue. Goku's third amp was after U7 defeated all of U3. Since Goku's third amp has nothing to do with UIO it makes your argument rather moot. And it's entirely possible that Blue Goku surpassed her, because again, his low 2-C amp wasn't because of UIO.

No. It was actually UIO1 which made him Low 2-C. Since he went from getting stomped by Kale in SSB to effortlessly beating both Kale and Caulifla in SSG. To even overpowering SSJ1 Kefla to some extent in SSB KKx20

Also yes he received further amps after UIO2 nearly matching a hint of true power Jiren

Jiren was suppressed the entire time until UI. Besides Jiren was superior to UIO1 because he only landed two hits that did next to no damage against Jiren and effortlessly caught Goku's last punch that he put all his effort into. So it's not a contradiction because suppressed Jiren was above UIO1 in the first place. Suppressed Jiren being the heaviest ki Vegeta's felt just means suppressed Jiren was > Kefla. It's very blatant and to deny such is ignorance along with mental gymnastics.

That's wrong. Suppressed Jiren was not>Kefla. Jiren went all out only after Toppo was knocked out.

 

[JackJoyce]

> Evidence that the amp wasn't from UIO2? I asked for this earlier and you didn't give anything.

What evidence do you require? Post UIO2 Goku was pissing his pants watching Jiren do one of his normal punches in Episode 123. He went from there to nearly matching him in the next episode after the power up. Even withstanding a few of serious Jiren's strikes in Episode 127. There's no way UIO2 have any significant AP advantage over SSBE, GOD Toppo or Post UIO2 SSB KKx20. Stop it with your headcanons

 

[LordTracer]

I require evidence that Goku got the amp from anything but UIO2, because such a thing has not been provided. Post-UIO2 SSB Goku was scared from Jiren unleashing a hint of his true power, and then went Kaioken on top of that. And he wasn't nearly matching Jiren, he needed the help of Vegeta (his equal at the time), and Jiren still somewhat overpowered them. And none of that has anything to do with UIO2, so...

 

[AwkguyDB]

Toppo should beat UIO2 via higher AP and equaled level of skill.

 

[JackJoyce]

I require evidence that Goku got the amp from anything but UIO2, because such a thing has not been provided. Post-UIO2 SSB Goku was scared from Jiren unleashing a hint of his true power, and then went Kaioken on top of that. And he wasn't nearly matching Jiren, he needed the help of Vegeta (his equal at the time), and Jiren still somewhat overpowered them. And none of that has anything to do with UIO2, so...

Yes Jiren was still stronger I've already mentioned. But Goku & Vegeta withstanded strikes from a serious Jiren. Thus their durability being higher than UIO2 Goku (who was supposed to get one shotted by Kefla's laser beams).

So either you can consider UIO2 Goku>SSBE Vegeta>Toppo based on assumption or, SSBE Vegeta>Toppo UIO2 Goku based on feats