Gohan and Krillin upgrade

[Vizer04]

Vegeta said that Gohan and Krillin's power levels were constantly increasing to the point that he believed they could win if the three fought together

This is true since we can see that at first, they had power levels of over 10,000

However, their PLs increased so much that they could fight Ginyu on Goku's body, who had a power of 23,000

And by the time they had to fight Frieza, Krillin had a power level of 75,000

Which makes him comparable to Captain Ginyu

So, their profiles should be edited this way:

Gohan: Planet level (After getting his potential unlocked, he grew steadily stronger, approaching Vegeta's power during the Saiyan Saga and surpassing him after getting a Zenkai), Dwarf Star level over time (He got increasingly stronger over the course of the fights on Namek) to Dwarf Star level+ with rages (During his rages, he was able to injure Frieza in his Second Form. After another Zenkai, he was able to briefly overwhelm his Third Form)

Krillin: Planet level (After having his potential unlocked, he was approaching Saiyan Saga Vegeta's power level), Dwarf Star level over time (He got increasingly stronger over the course of the fights on Namek), Dwarf Star level+ with Destructo Disc (Cut off Second Form Frieza's tail)

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Where is the 75000 power level scan from? Regardless 75000 is still planet level, >90000 is where dwarf star starts. Why does krillin and regular gohan scale to that?

 

[Vizer04]

Where is the 75000 power level scan from?

Is something from V-Jump i think, not sure how valid it is though.

Regardless 75000 is still planet level, >90000 is where dwarf star starts. Why does krillin and regular gohan scale to that?

Not really, Ginyu thought Goku had a power level of 60,000 and he said that he would need to use his full power.

 

[DivineAura44]

Is something from V-Jump i think, not sure how valid it is though.


Not really, Ginyu thought Goku had a power level of 60,000 and he said that he would need to use his full power.

Isn't Ginyu a confirmed 120,000?

 

[Vizer04]

Isn't Ginyu a confirmed 120,000?

Yes... how is that relevant though?

 

[DivineAura44]

Yes... how is that relevant though?

Him using all of his strength doesn't mean Goku was Dwarf Star.

 

[Vizer04]

Him using all of his strength doesn't mean Goku was Dwarf Star.

Goku is currently listed as Dwarf Star though...

 

[Nullflowerblush]

120,000. It does not take a mathematician to know that 75,000 is not comparable to 120,000.

Also, that V-Jump scan looks like it pertains to the Z anime rather than the original manga, just basing it off of the renders they have.

Also, the Wiki does not use supplementary Power Levels unless they are backed up by the original manga.

Also, also, reminder that a suppressed Ginyu managed to dick with Goku, who had a Power Level of 60,000, and the only reason Ginyu powered up was to break his confidence.

Also, also, also, even with a Power Level of 60,000, Vegeta was convinced that Goku stood no match against Frieza.

 

[DivineAura44]

Goku is currently listed as Dwarf Star though...

Due to the Kaioken.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Goku is dwarf star level via downscaling 10 times from freeza, problem is that it's 90000, not 75000, so they are still planet level if that scan is credible at all.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Goku actually downscales from second form Frieza. Goku is actually 1/6th of Frieza's full power in his first form

 

[Nullflowerblush]

That is the beauty of multipliers!
We have characters who explicitly do not hold a candle to First Form Frieza downscaling from his far more powerful Second Form!

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Goku actually downscales from second form Frieza. Goku is actually 1/6th of Frieza's full power in his first form

1/6th????? Second form freeza is small star level?

 

[thetechmaster36]

1/6th????? Second form freeza is small star level?

Goku actually downscales from second form Frieza. Goku is actually 1/6th of Frieza's full power in his first form

Read it again.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

1/6th????? Second form freeza is small star level?

I said Goku scales to 1/6 of First Form Frieza. Not Second Form Frieza. Goku with KK10 downscales from second form Frieza, however, Goku's power level during the Namek Saga is 90,000. With KK6, that would be 540,000, which is just over First Form Frieza's power of 530,000.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Bruh, so second form freeza IS small star level. That changes all the goddamn values from freeza saga to buu saga.
Goku (0.815 tenatons) < freeza 1st form/kk6 goku (4.89 tenatons) < second form freeza/kk10 goku (8.15 tenatons/small star level).
You guys didn't account for this, did you?

 

[Vizer04]

Please stop derailing, this is irrelevant for the CRT

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bruh, so second form freeza IS small star level. That changes all the goddamn values from freeza saga to buu saga.
Goku (0.815 tenatons) < freeza 1st form/kk6 goku (4.89 tenatons) < second form freeza/kk10 goku (8.15 tenatons/small star level).
You guys didn't account for this, did you?

This should be done in a different CRT. Not here. This has nothing to do with the subject showed here

 

[Vizer04]

Ok, i don't see the problem with this upgrade considering that we already use statements from guides and such. Vegito is an example, we use a statement from a guide to scale him above a hypothetical fusion between Goku and Gohan (it's on his profile, in the Attack Potency section)

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Ok, i don't see the problem with this upgrade considering that we already use statements from guides and such. Vegito is an example, we use a statement from a guide to scale him above a hypothetical fusion between Goku and Gohan (it's on his profile, in the Attack Potency section)

Yes I know, I wrote that AP section myself. The problem with this upgrade is that 75000 is not dwarf star level, it's planet level, and it just scales them above the ginyu force. The other thing is which guide is that scan from?

 

[Vizer04]

The problem with this upgrade is that 75000 is not dwarf star level, it's planet level

Why? Ginyu said that a power of 60,000 would give him an interesting fight and he would need to use his full power, something he never imagined.

And later this is confirmed even more since Goku could fight Ginyu without going all out.

 

[Vizer04]

Also, do i need to remind you that Ginyu being High 5-A was already accepted?

 

[Vizer04]

Also, there's Vegeta (one of the most arrogant characters in the series, even more at this point in the story) saying that he would need their help to defeat Frieza. If they were Planet level they wouldn't be of any help at all.

 

[Vizer04]

Is that enough proof for you?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Ginyu was holding back vs Goku when Goku "kept up" with him, and he still clapped him regardless. P.S, Goku being 60000 is just ginyu's estimation, Goku was 90000 the whole fight even when ginyu was holding back.
When Ginyu got serious, Goku couldn't do anything and was forced to use kaioken.
So ginyu seeing a 60000 impressive is wrong, and was probably just refering to how Goku is the strongest he's fought.

Also, there's Vegeta (one of the most arrogant characters in the series, even more at this point in the story) saying that he would need their help to defeat Frieza. If they were Planet level they wouldn't be of any help at all.

There are ways krillin can be useful without being physically comparable to freeza l, in fact, even if scaled below base Goku to dwarf star, he'd still be completely useless against freeza physically. Gohan is the same deal, but Vegeta is aware of his potential which is why he's confident. This is your best point though.

 

[Vizer04]

There are ways krillin can be useful without being physically comparable to freeza

The wording Vegeta used implies that he would need their power, that's why he says their power levels were increasing.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

When Ginyu got serious, Goku couldn't do anything and was forced to use kaioken.

The only reason Goku was even captured is because Jeice distracted him. That doesn't say much at all since even when serious Goku kept up with him

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The wording Vegeta used implies that he would need their power, that's why he says their power levels were increasing.

That's even worse because that means they aren't even that strong (yet). And this is only the case woth Gohan really.

The only reason Goku was even captured is because Jeice distracted him. That doesn't say much at all since even when serious Goku kept up with him

The point is Goku saying "goddamn he's so strong I can't even move." and being forced into the kaioken.

 

[Vizer04]

"By my estimation, i think he has a power around 60,000"

"I never imagined that i, Ginyu, would ever have to show off my true power"

This is all the proof you need.

 

[Vizer04]

120,000. It does not take a mathematician to know that 75,000 is not comparable to 120,000

Didn't you said that power levels are not linear?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Pretty sure 60,000 may not have been an accurate translation, or was a bad guess. Because that would make his PL slightly lower than other PL's shown in Kaizenshuu of other Ginyu Force members; Jeice, Burter and Recoome having 62000, 64000, and 65000 respectively. And I know Kaizenshuu isn't always reliable, but the 90,000 is more accurate since Kaioken x2 amped him up to 180,000 with Goku saying it's nothing compared to what he can output.

Also, I'm fine with the Gohan upgrade since he really does have a lot of potential and can get really strong when angered, but still feel mostly uneasy about Krillin. Him fighting a heavily weakened Ginyu doesn't sound like a good scaling method since Goku's body was many times weaker with Ginyu controlling it. His only feat was him being able to cut off 2nd form Frieza's Tail with his Destructo Disk. But I think it was agreed that his tail may have been his least durable body part. But I'm not sure about that technique specifically being in the tier.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Pretty sure 60,000 may not have been an accurate translation, or was a bad guess. Because that would make his PL slightly lower than other PL's shown in Kaizenshuu of other Ginyu Force members; Jeice, Burter and Recoome having 62000, 64000, and 65000 respectively. And I know Kaizenshuu isn't always reliable, but the 90,000 is more accurate since Kaioken x2 amped him up to 180,000 with Goku saying it's nothing compared to what he can output.

Doesn't Jeice, Recoome and Burter have like 40,000 PL?
Also I'm pretty sure the manga never listed official power levels to the Ginyu Force aside from Ginyu. Besides, a power level of 60,000 horrified Jeice, so he couldn't be anywhere near that number

 

[Vizer04]

They're around 40,000 like Nail does

 

[ByAsura]

Firstly, Goku is 1/10th of Second Form Frieza.

Secondly, while I find Goku’s statement ridiculous as justification, Vegeta likely had no idea that Goku could do a x10.

Third, all Ginyu knew was that Goku was far superior to the Ginyu Force, and wrongly estimated he could have a PL of 60,000. I don’t see why this means 60,000 is close to his true power.

Fourth, Krillin and Gohan being able to assist Vegeta is just a small meaningless as his statement that Goku could help after he explicitly said Goku was nothing compared to Frieza. Vegeta is far more powerful than both of them and almost on par with Frieza himself, they’d just be able to win together.

 

[Vizer04]

Firstly, Goku is 1/10th of Second Form Frieza.

That's true

Secondly, while I find Goku’s statement ridiculous as justification, Vegeta likely had no idea that Goku could do a x10.

How is that relevant?

Third, all Ginyu knew was that Goku was far superior to the Ginyu Force, and wrongly estimated he could have a PL of 60,000. I don’t see why this means 60,000 is close to his true power.

Ginyu said that he would need to use his true power for the first time. He also said that it would be an interesting battle.

 

[ByAsura]

I’m addressing the people who disagree with the current ratings in that section.

He didn’t even use his true power until later, though. Also, Ginyu’s projection of Goku’s true strength was still lower than 90,000 and his 120,000.

Edit: I can’t upload the scans apparently. Ginyu says Goku is still holding back, implies he can kick his ass no matter what, and estimates his true strength as 85,000.

 

[Vizer04]

Goku could fight Ginyu decently well...

and even surpass him in speed.

Ginyu knew that Goku was still holding back...

and estimated his true power to be around 85,000.

In conclusion, even when holding back to a power of 60,000 Goku could still fight Ginyu (who was fighting at full power) decently well.

 

[ByAsura]

Ginyu was not fighting at full strength.

The fact that he was already at a disadvantage and still prepared to fight a stronger Goku makes this extremely apparent.

 

[Vizer04]

He was, i can't upload the scans but just before their fight he said that he could supress his own power, surprising even Goku.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Scans can be posted on either Discordapp or Imgur album; preferably the latter. You cannot uploading URLs to illegal manga streaming websites directly on this forum via Fandom's TOS.