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I actually agree.ShadowWarrior1999 said:
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Gogeta blue tier
- Thread starter Hizack123
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I'll ask then. Why do they make the most sense, according to your perspective?
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Because they aren't relying on powerscaling / multiplying wank that the DB fanbase seems to favor in place of actual feats.
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Back in 2016 we had to put a note in Dragon Ball profiles to explain that Buu Saga characters weren't going to be 4-A just from being far above Super Perfect Cell. People never seemed to get the gap or the concept of feats.Pritti said:
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"Because that's not what possibly is used for.
Stomping a GoD is not possibly 2-C. It's literally not. That's like saying someone stomping SMT Michael (a 2-A) is Kagutsuchi level (At least 2-A) or even worst, High 2-A. It's not."
That's a different topic because apparently Champa and Beerus feat you only need to be 2 times stronger to be 2-C apparently.
Stomping a GoD is not possibly 2-C. It's literally not. That's like saying someone stomping SMT Michael (a 2-A) is Kagutsuchi level (At least 2-A) or even worst, High 2-A. It's not."
That's a different topic because apparently Champa and Beerus feat you only need to be 2 times stronger to be 2-C apparently.
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Maybe? but there is a proof of a smaller Space-Time for each Universe instead of a Global Space-time? because if not, i think we can't treat the cosmology of this verse like that.DMB 1 said:
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The 2 times stronger thing is literal bullshit invented by DB Fans on this website, who see everything in terms of numerical multipliers.
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I give up. None of you are even reading the revision threads. None of you understand the upgrade rationale and you all seem to be against the concept of 2-C Dragon Ball in the first place. Resorting to insulting others based on 'fanboyism' and 'wanking' when you, yourselves, have no argument is weak.
Evidently, I am too irritated to discuss this any further today. So I'll disengage and return when I am balanced.
Evidently, I am too irritated to discuss this any further today. So I'll disengage and return when I am balanced.
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It's not about multipliers though, if 2 characters can perform a 2-C feat then anyone who is equal to those 2 combined is 2-C, simple as that, you frame your comments in a way to make it seem like they were upgraded to 2-C simply by being X amount of times above Low 2-C.Matthew Schroeder said:
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"The 2 times stronger thing is literal bullshit invented by DB Fans on this website, who see everything in terms of numerical multipliers."
Matt I don't think it's that if two people do a feat together we cut the feat in half by 2 for each characters power unless it's stated that for some reason said two characters amplify each other powers to a insane magnitude that's how we've done it. Though here happens to be a 2-C feat where things get a little more complicated.
Matt I don't think it's that if two people do a feat together we cut the feat in half by 2 for each characters power unless it's stated that for some reason said two characters amplify each other powers to a insane magnitude that's how we've done it. Though here happens to be a 2-C feat where things get a little more complicated.
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Each one is Low 2-C and responsible for the destruction of one universe. Not 2-C.
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How did anyone beside Zeno become 2C in the first place?
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They were in universe 7 and the fight would've resulted in the destruction of two universes all the way from their position.Matthew Schroeder said:
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The gap between Low 2-C and 2-C is unquantifiable normally.
But when we have two characters of equal Low 2-C power being able to accomplish a 2-C feat, we know that in this case, being stronger than both of those parties combined should make you 2-C. Broly is stated to be stronger than Beerus. This statement is somewhat reliable, especially given Jiren being stronger than the Gods of Destruction and all the other evidence. Goku then fuses with Vegeta. And then they STOMP BROLY OUT. Saying that they are possibly 2-C means that they are possibly comparable to the strength of 2 Beerus level enemies combined. Why? Because when you beat the **** outta someone like that, STOMP them, like that, arguing that they're in the same realm of strength is extremely difficult. To claim that someone is AT LEAST around 2x the power of the stomped weaker individual is the least wanky thing anyone can do, because being 1.1x through 1.9x times the power of the foe and waxing their ass is very strange. In the case if the Buu Saga, Matt is right. No amount of stomping scaling trains will close that gap. But this is not a large gap anymore, considering we have 2 GoD's of equal strength equalling 2-C power together. Being 2x them would make you 2-C. It isn't hard.
But when we have two characters of equal Low 2-C power being able to accomplish a 2-C feat, we know that in this case, being stronger than both of those parties combined should make you 2-C. Broly is stated to be stronger than Beerus. This statement is somewhat reliable, especially given Jiren being stronger than the Gods of Destruction and all the other evidence. Goku then fuses with Vegeta. And then they STOMP BROLY OUT. Saying that they are possibly 2-C means that they are possibly comparable to the strength of 2 Beerus level enemies combined. Why? Because when you beat the **** outta someone like that, STOMP them, like that, arguing that they're in the same realm of strength is extremely difficult. To claim that someone is AT LEAST around 2x the power of the stomped weaker individual is the least wanky thing anyone can do, because being 1.1x through 1.9x times the power of the foe and waxing their ass is very strange. In the case if the Buu Saga, Matt is right. No amount of stomping scaling trains will close that gap. But this is not a large gap anymore, considering we have 2 GoD's of equal strength equalling 2-C power together. Being 2x them would make you 2-C. It isn't hard.
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"Because Beerus and Champa's feat combined is 2-C so anyone who's stronger than them is 2-C."AstralKing7 said:
Even though it's not a 2-C feat and you don't use multipliers in tier 2 but Dragon Ball is special.
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It is a 2-C feat. They were going to destroy the space-time of two universes. No one is using any stated multipliers of DBS, we're simply stating that Gogeta is at least twice the strength of Beerus or Champa, both of whom are equal to each other, and adding up 1 + 1 and doubling 1 by 2 are the SAME THING
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On the note of multipliers, stomps, scaling chains, and Dragon Ball bias...
Pokémon is relativistic via scaling to Golem (Pokémon), a relatively slow final stage Pokémon. Deoxys is the fastest thing in the series below MFTL+. He doesn't need to be even 2x times this thing that's considered slow even to things that are fodder to it to reach FTL. And guess what speed tier he is. Yet DB is apparently different.
Pokémon is relativistic via scaling to Golem (Pokémon), a relatively slow final stage Pokémon. Deoxys is the fastest thing in the series below MFTL+. He doesn't need to be even 2x times this thing that's considered slow even to things that are fodder to it to reach FTL. And guess what speed tier he is. Yet DB is apparently different.
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You just contradicted yourself.Amexim said:
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^This too.Pritti said:
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@Matt
No. It's not even just Dragon Ball who works this way, one. People all over the community assume that someone is bare minimum 2x the strength of the person they effortlessly stomped. You see this everywhere. Stop projecting your hatred of communities into your comments, you're a goddamn moderator.
Two. Your ass should have said something in the thread that discussed the feat in question. But you didn't even argue there. You just said "I disagree" like that meant anything, and at best, didn't contribute to the conversation as much as Cal, or anyone else did. Even now, Cal contributes more to this tread constructively than you do, when not only do you post only a few sentences at BEST, and you remain derogatory all the while, at least half of your posts are dedicated to insulting and accusing people of wanking. The other ones are either 2 words long, or making a claim without establishing an argument to support it, as if the claim being made is all that is necessary. And you're doing the same thing now that you did back in the other thread, on top of misunderstanding the thread and the conclusion we're working from because no one thinks Beerus and Champa individually were 2-C. We said that they did a 2-C feat. They were going to destroy both of the universe's space-times simultaneously and we came to that conclusion using Occams Razor, because every other method to get to YOUR idea adds more information we are given.
3. You're disrespectful as ****, and you get away with it far more than you should. Cal and every other staff member that disagrees with the rating at least has the capability of trying to substantiate their arguments. And I know you do too. But you seem to not try anymore. You need to take another break, because you're doing the same shit you did with the sonic threads.
No. It's not even just Dragon Ball who works this way, one. People all over the community assume that someone is bare minimum 2x the strength of the person they effortlessly stomped. You see this everywhere. Stop projecting your hatred of communities into your comments, you're a goddamn moderator.
Two. Your ass should have said something in the thread that discussed the feat in question. But you didn't even argue there. You just said "I disagree" like that meant anything, and at best, didn't contribute to the conversation as much as Cal, or anyone else did. Even now, Cal contributes more to this tread constructively than you do, when not only do you post only a few sentences at BEST, and you remain derogatory all the while, at least half of your posts are dedicated to insulting and accusing people of wanking. The other ones are either 2 words long, or making a claim without establishing an argument to support it, as if the claim being made is all that is necessary. And you're doing the same thing now that you did back in the other thread, on top of misunderstanding the thread and the conclusion we're working from because no one thinks Beerus and Champa individually were 2-C. We said that they did a 2-C feat. They were going to destroy both of the universe's space-times simultaneously and we came to that conclusion using Occams Razor, because every other method to get to YOUR idea adds more information we are given.
3. You're disrespectful as ****, and you get away with it far more than you should. Cal and every other staff member that disagrees with the rating at least has the capability of trying to substantiate their arguments. And I know you do too. But you seem to not try anymore. You need to take another break, because you're doing the same shit you did with the sonic threads.
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My bad Shadow. I'll edit it. They were going to destroy the space times of 2 universes.
And speculating on the nature of the destruction based on a statement that vague is going to require more assumptions than it would to simply accept they're going to destroy both universes simultaneously. And even then. That speculation wouldn't contradict them destroying both of the universes and seems like it could be irrelevant.
And speculating on the nature of the destruction based on a statement that vague is going to require more assumptions than it would to simply accept they're going to destroy both universes simultaneously. And even then. That speculation wouldn't contradict them destroying both of the universes and seems like it could be irrelevant.
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>Says I'm disrespectful in a comment that insults me multiple times.
I, Hypocrite
I, Hypocrite
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^^^^^^^^This was the exact reaso why I called out this issue in my 2 earlier threads in the first place. Incase people here didnt know this.The Causality said:
Before Gogeta got upgraded, there was a discussion rule in place that explicitly specified that Beerus and Champa destroying U6 and U7 wasnt even a tier 2 feat since there was no evidence of them being able to destroy the space-times of both universes. Just their matter, which is a 3-A feat only.
Yet
At the same time, the DBS Comsmology isnt treated as a 3-A structure here currently, its treated as a 2-C structure since we currently accept the universes being their own separate space-times. Which is the reason why Zen'o is 2-C to begin with.
This was completely contradictory since if we treat the DBS Multiverse as a 2-C one, then that means Beerus and Champa destroying U6 and U7 would have to be a 2-C feat as destroying the matter of both universes cant bypass dimensional barriers, only space-time level destruction can do that. But if we were to continue treating their feat as a 3-A one, then that would mean we're saying the universes in DBS can be destroyed by matter-Destruction, which can only be done if the universes share the same space-times. Meaning we would have to downgrade the cosmology of the verse instead of upgrading Beerus and Champa.
So if this is an issue again, then we have to make a choice. Either we accept the universes being their own space-times, which would mean we accept Beerus and Champa doing a combined 2-C feat, OR we accept the universes being in the same space-time, meaning Beerus and Champa's feat would be only 3-A and thus we'd have to downgrade Zen'o and the verse's cosmology. Its either one or the other.
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That's not the same thing Sera.
Having 2x the power of an individual who is half the strength of someone who can accomplish x feat when they other individual of equal strength is in the equation== where 1 is Beerus, and Champa is also around 1 in value. They add up to 2. 2 in this case is a 2-C feat.
Having double the value of 1, means you have 2. And in a fight, especially dragon Ball, 2x the difference is hardly anything. We're assuming the bear minimum here because of that.
And having 2x the strength of one person in a fight isn't going to make me stomp the other two simultaneously. And being 2x the strength of that person isn't that much stronger.
Having 2x the power of an individual who is half the strength of someone who can accomplish x feat when they other individual of equal strength is in the equation== where 1 is Beerus, and Champa is also around 1 in value. They add up to 2. 2 in this case is a 2-C feat.
Having double the value of 1, means you have 2. And in a fight, especially dragon Ball, 2x the difference is hardly anything. We're assuming the bear minimum here because of that.
And having 2x the strength of one person in a fight isn't going to make me stomp the other two simultaneously. And being 2x the strength of that person isn't that much stronger.
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Or option 3: the feat is not 2-C because they would've destroyed Universe 7 first and then Universe 6, which would be Low 2-C.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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I think the issue here was phrasing. The phrasing confuses people— by saying we're stronger than both gods combined, it supposed to be read as 2x stronger than Beerus, instead of who would win in a fight between two GoDs and Gogeta.
Being 2x stronger than either of them would make you comparable to the 2-C feat, as, Beerus and Champa, who are relatively equal, can add their equal power together and do a 2-C feat. 1 + 1 is 2. To argue that doubling beerus's 1 won't get us 2 is illogical, because when we add a character who's got the same value of strength (1) we get a 2-C feat. 2. Adding 1 + 1 abd doubling 1 by 2 gets you the same result.
This is enough for the VAGUEST rating possible at least. "Possibly". If not for viable but vague reasons, when do we use possibly? Because we consistently avoid it in my experience here.
Being 2x stronger than either of them would make you comparable to the 2-C feat, as, Beerus and Champa, who are relatively equal, can add their equal power together and do a 2-C feat. 1 + 1 is 2. To argue that doubling beerus's 1 won't get us 2 is illogical, because when we add a character who's got the same value of strength (1) we get a 2-C feat. 2. Adding 1 + 1 abd doubling 1 by 2 gets you the same result.
This is enough for the VAGUEST rating possible at least. "Possibly". If not for viable but vague reasons, when do we use possibly? Because we consistently avoid it in my experience here.
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