Goemon Ishikawa Vs King Bradley (Lupin The Third Vs Fullmetal Alchemist)

[Arcker123]

The Swordsman Vs The Führer​

• Two Precog Wielding Swordsmen, Seems Thematic.
• Speed Equal
• Both 8-C
• Goemon Scales To 0.749 Tons Of TNT
• King Bradley Scales To 0.490 Tons of TNT
• Takes Place In The Bradley Estate
• Both In Character
• Bradley Has Standard Equipment And Optional Equipment
• Goemon Has His Standard Equipment (The Zantetsuken)
• SBA Otherwise

Goemon, Jigen, And Lupin were on a stroll in the streets of Amestris, simply for amusement. They especially took a liking to Central city. On this walk, they took in the vast culture and beautiful infrastructure of the city. On their walk, Lupin notices a very wealthy and beautiful house. It was a large mansion made of stone, one of, if not the richest homes in the city. Intrigued, he orders his group to investigate the house, in hopes of a robbery. Upon further research, they deduced the identity of the home owner, a man named Führer King Bradley, the leader of Amestris. They did not manage to learn much about him beyond that. He was sure to have plenty of trained and armed security for his house. This did not discourage them however, they have dealt with far greater odds against this. The group made their move on the home for their grand larceny. They planned for the Führer not to be there, wishing to avoid confrontation. As such, they carefully timed their infiltration to a near flawless level. They snuck past the guards with relative ease, rendering the guards unconscious when necessary. Quickly, they made their move upon the living room of the house, where the Führer and his family lived. They searched the place for people. There was a problem though. Despite the mother and son being asleep and thus not a threat, there was still trouble for the three robbers. There was a man standing in the middle of the living room. He had several swords, bombs, and an intense look of fury on his face. When the robbers exited the bedrooms they entered when searching the place, they saw him, and instantly recognized who he was, he was Führer King Bradley. Unfortunately for them, they were not so lucky as to avoid the wrath of the leader of Amestris. Taken aback by his sudden appearance, Lupin and Jigen retreated for cover, out of fear, and planning to take him on 3 on 1. They did not expect for him to be this menacing, and thus feared and respected him. Bradley stood still in the middle of the room, unfazed by their preparation for battle. Suprisingly, Goemon told them to back off. He ordered them not to fight. Goemon planned to duel the Führer on his own, sword to sword. Out of respect, Lupin and Jigen obliged his wish. They stood on the sidelines, observing the fight with no intentions of interfering. Goemon faced his opponent who’s rage still quietly coated his face. Goemon went to the opposite side of the room with no interference. The two met gazes with each other, and wordlessly expressed their desire for combat. Then suddenly with blades drawn, the honorable duel begun.
​

Goemon Ishikawa XIII: 1 Stillwinston​

Führer King Bradley: 0

​

 

[Popted2]

you forgot to add the links to their profiles

 

[Arcker123]

you forgot to add the links to their profiles

MB, added now.

 

[Ningen]

Sigh...I got excited seeing Bradley having just finished FMAB recently but then I have no idea who his opponent is, lol

 

[Arcker123]

Sigh...I got excited seeing Bradley having just finished FMAB recently but then I have no idea who his opponent is, lol

R.I.P. If you want to familarize yourself with Goemon, you can read his respect thread, it’s on his feat section on his profile, which is linked.

 

[Ningen]

R.I.P. If you want to familarize yourself with Goemon, you can read his respec thread, it’s on his feat section on his profile, which is linked.

Alright, thanks

 

[Ningen]

MB, added now.

From what I can see on Goemon's profile, he should beat Bradley low to mid diff...he has better AP and even tho speed is equalized, I feel like the Fuhrer can't keep up

 

[Arcker123]

he has better AP

Whilst it is an advantage, it’s not even a 2x edge. Dunno how that makes it Low To Mid diff.

I feel like the Fuhrer can't keep up

He has the ultimate eye, which should allow him to keep up.

 

[Ningen]

Whilst it is an advantage, it’s not even a 2x edge. Dunno how that makes it Low To Mid diff.

I just fail to see what the Fuhrer has going for him in this fight

 

[Ningen]

He has the ultimate eye, which should allow him to keep up.

Does the ultimate eye let him see faster or something? Never really got its function/ability.

 

[Arcker123]

I just fail to see what the Fuhrer has going for him in this fight

Their both just swordsman with some form of enhanced ability, this fight comes down to things like skill. Bradley can be argued to be comparable. He also has bombs for a further edge.

Does the ultimate eye let him see faster or something? Never really got its function/ability.

It’s information analysis that allows him to instantly analyze his sorroundings. Speed is equal so the “See faster thing” is irrelevent. In this battle, they have equal speed, Bradley will be able to “keep up” fine.

 

[Jackythejack]

This is actually a really good fight. How experience/skilled is Bradley?

 

[Arcker123]

This is actually a really good fight. How experience/skilled is Bradley?

He’s been trained from childhood to be a soldier and leader of amestris
In his young adulthood, he fought in many armed conflicts
He consistently beats up homunculi and alchemist a like
He beats up Ling and his bodyguards, trained warriors from Xing
Hes taken down entire armies

 

[Ningen]

Their both just swordsman with some form of enhanced ability, this fight comes down to things like skill. Bradley can be argued to be comparable. He also has bombs for a further edge.

In that case, I'm back to square one since I can't judge Goemon's skill from his profile alone

 

[Arcker123]

In that case, I'm back to square one since I can't judge Goemon's skill from his profile alone

Well, I can give some feats here.

He beat hawk, who Fujiko states is renowned as a legendary soldier who once solo’d 2000 soldiers And was stronger than him.
Hes a master of multiple martial arts such as Kenjutsu, Karate, Jujutsu and Iaidō.
He has decades of experience fighting with Lupin‘s crew.
Hes even defeated Lupin and has fought expert gunman like Jigen.
, More feats here

 

[Stillwinston]

I'm not really familiar with Bradley, do know a bit of Goemon. Atm I'm gonna lean on him, the guy practically has Sekiro levels of swordsmanship and has higher LS with 50 vs 25 so if they clash weapons it'll just favour Goemon there even if the guy has five weapons.

Goemon's Precog and Bradley's eye thing probably just cancel each other out. Pretty sure Goemon's got better stamina too to outlast too. Bombs won't help much either here given Goemon can go up against guns like its nothing plus he's cut rockets in half too.

 

[Arcker123]

I'm not really familiar with Bradley, do know a bit of Goemon. Atm I'm gonna lean on him, the guy practically has Sekiro levels of swordsmanship and has higher LS with 50 vs 25 so if they clash weapons it'll just favour Goemon there even if the guy has five weapons.

Goemon's Precog and Bradley's eye thing probably just cancel each other out. Pretty sure Goemon's got better stamina too to outlast too. Bombs won't help much either here given Goemon can go up against guns like its nothing plus he's cut rockets in half too.

Thanks for the comment, but Is this a vote for Goemon?

 

[Stillwinston]

Yeah chalk me down for him atm cheers

 

[Armorchompy]

Bradley's fought Xingese people who can read minds to anticipate their foes' moves, in fact he's fought and beat multiple at once while not using his preferred weapons, so precog shouldn't be too much of an issue.

 

[Arcker123]

Bradley's fought Xingese people who can read minds to anticipate their foes' moves, in fact he's fought and beat multiple at once while not using his preferred weapons, so precog shouldn't be too much of an issue.

The scan you linked doesn’t mention him being able to predict moves via telepathy, just him being able to to read others thoughts. Fu doesn’t even have Precog on his page.

Besides, Goemons precog is different from that. Goemon directly receives glimpses of the future itself and sees his opponents moves in the future. Far cry from telepathic Precog.

Another scan of the Precog, he uses it to see Hawks moves in the future and uses this future sight to accurately counter attack.

 

[Armorchompy]

It's still knowing the opponent's attack ahead of time, close enough if maybe not as strong. But really with Bradley's info analysis + perception amp he'll be able to tell anything Goemon does ahead of time just as well.

 

[Arcker123]

It's still knowing the opponent's attack ahead of time

Do you have a different scan for that? The scan you gave me does not imply they can do that at all. Says they can read thoughts, not that they can do this to predict moves. There’s not even Precog on the page. No reason this argument goes through.

close enough if maybe not as strong

It’s really not close or comparable in anyway. Even if I accepted the Precog, it’s potency is nebulous at best as no feats are presented on profile or here. Not only would Goemon‘s Precog be fundamentally different than the Xing warriors, it has way better feats and is thus much stronger.

Goemon (As shown in the scans in my previous post) Precog’d the exact movement’s of dozens of Yakuza men and was able to use this Precog to effortlessly counter attack and beat up all of them, only getting touched when he allowed it. He did the same thing to Hawk, someone stronger than him, again seeing his exact movements in the future to counter act his attack. He even Precog’d how the fight would go exactly if they continued fighting, and made Hawk give up out of a fear of death. It’s really not a fair comparison to say Xing precog ~ Goemon’s due to the lack of feats to compare.

But really with Bradley's info analysis + perception amp he'll be able to tell anything Goemon does ahead of time just as well.

Not nearly to the same extent Goemon can. Goemon would have a better edge with Precog in this fight.

 

[Armorchompy]

Goemon (As shown in the scans in my previous post) Precog’d the exact movement’s of dozens of Yakuza men and was able to use this Precog to effortlessly counter attack and beat up all of them, only getting touched when he allowed it. He did the same thing to Hawk, someone stronger than him, again seeing his exact movements in the future to counter act his attack. He even Precog’d how the fight would go exactly if they continued fighting, and made Hawk give up out of a fear of death. It’s really not a fair comparison to say Xing precog ~ Goemon’s due to the lack of feats to compare.

That's fine, Bradley's own feats of instantly knowing how to platform on a bunch of falling rubble are at least on that level of Info Analysis. I mean let's be real, it kinda has to act like precog anyway if it tells him where the stones are going to be. Without getting into how "beat a bunch of people without a scratch" is something Bradley does on the daily.

Not nearly to the same extent Goemon can. Goemon would have a better edge with Precog in this fight.

Goemon needs to adapt to Bradley's attacks in advance, Bradley can also adapt to anything Goemon does as it's happening due to his increased perception, I don't really see that being the case, Wrath is always going to have the last word.

 

[Arcker123]

That's fine, Bradley's own feats of instantly knowing how to platform on a bunch of falling rubble are at least on that level of Info Analysis.

Goemon performs similar feats. I don’t understand why this puts it relative to Goemons.

I mean let's be real, it kinda has to act like precog anyway if it tells him where the stones are going to be.

Are you talking about this Bradley scan? If so, he doesn’t allude to Precog at all, just that the eye allowed him to see a clear path, which is info analysis and not Precog. He’s not saying he’s seeing the future or anything.

Without getting into how "beat a bunch of people without a scratch" is something Bradley does on the daily.

I’m not denying this. The point of me bringing this up is for the Precog potency argument. Being able to Precog the exact movements of dozens of people is far more combat applicable and just better than Bradley’s or whatever the Xing people have.

Goemon needs to adapt to Bradley's attacks in advance, Bradley can also adapt to anything Goemon does as it's happening due to his increased perception, I don't really see that being the case, Wrath is always going to have the last word.

Wait why? All he has to do is see the future in advance. Goemon is going to see everything wrath does in the future, and Goemon just kills him. I don’t understand the importance of this “adapt as it’s happening“ when Goemon already knows what he’s going to do and counter them.

Also Bump

 

[Armorchompy]

Goemon performs similar feats. I don’t understand why this puts it relative to Goemons.

Yeah no that's pretty good ngl.

Are you talking about this Bradley scan? If so, he doesn’t allude to Precog at all, just that the eye allowed him to see a clear path, which is info analysis and not Precog. He’s not saying he’s seeing the future or anything.

He says he was able to plot a course so the way I interpreted, he analyzed the path of every single piece of falling rubble (or at least every relevant one) to platform on them. Especially since he said he did that plotting as the explosion happened, which meant he was still in the train as that happened.

I’m not denying this. The point of me bringing this up is for the Precog potency argument. Being able to Precog the exact movements of dozens of people is far more combat applicable and just better than Bradley’s or whatever the Xing people have.

Xing people, sure. But I think Bradley's feats are not too far behind.

Wait why? All he has to do is see the future in advance. Goemon is going to see everything wrath does in the future, and Goemon just kills him. I don’t understand the importance of this “adapt as it’s happening“ when Goemon already knows what he’s going to do and counter them.

"Just kills him" ignores that, in the moment, Bradley has the advantage due to his faster perception. While Goemon can play in advance Wrath just has a superior reactive powerset, so no matter what Goemon does Bradley will always be able to react to it- even if Goemon plays around what he knows Bradley is about to do, Bradley can still change that at the last second as he sees what Goemon is doing.

 

[Arcker123]

So, for clarity, Are you voting for Bradley @Armorchompy?

He says he was able to plot a course so the way I interpreted, he analyzed the path of every single piece of falling rubble (or at least every relevant one) to platform on them. Especially since he said he did that plotting as the explosion happened, which meant he was still in the train as that happened.

I don’t see why that’s true. He’s not saying “I could instantly see the best and safest path out of many other paths” he’s saying “I can plot a safe course instantl.” The former would imply what your saying a lot more than the latter, which is what happened.

Xing people, sure. But I think Bradley's feats are not too far behind.

Eh, I think they are. In terms of Precognitive power i don’t see how anything the eye has compares. The most apt feat for comparison is the train feat, but Goemon has a similar feat with his building feat. Goemon has more and better precog feats.

"Just kills him" ignores that, in the moment, Bradley has the advantage due to his faster perception. While Goemon can play in advance Wrath just has a superior reactive powerset, so no matter what Goemon does Bradley will always be able to react to it- even if Goemon plays around what he knows Bradley is about to do, Bradley can still change that at the last second as he sees what Goemon is doing.

This isn’t really how Precog works. You can’t really avoid it or change it by being “reactionary,” you’d need Precog resistance for that.

 

[Armorchompy]

So, for clarity, Are you voting for Bradley @Armorchompy?

i dunno

I don’t see why that’s true. He’s not saying “I could instantly see the best and safest path out of many other paths” he’s saying “I can plot a safe course instantl.” The former would imply what your saying a lot more than the latter, which is what happened.

?? I'm not saying he can see a billion futures, he just anticipated what was going to happen in the moments following what came after the explosion with a great deal of accuracy, I don't think that's illegitimate to say.

This isn’t really how Precog works. You can’t really avoid it or change it by being “reactionary,” you’d need Precog resistance for that.

Skill-based precog is literally just "I know you are going to do this because I am good at reading people", if the circumstances that cause the enemy's action change so does the action. It's not casuality manipulation that locks everything into being one way, it's literally just predicting what the opponent is going to do.

 

[Arcker123]

?? I'm not saying he can see a billion futures, he just anticipated what was going to happen in the moments following what came after the explosion with a great deal of accuracy, I don't think that's illegitimate to say.

I misinterpreted what was said. My mistake.

Skill-based precog is literally just "I know you are going to do this because I am good at reading people", if the circumstances that cause the enemy's action change so does the action. It's not casuality manipulation that locks everything into being one way, it's literally just predicting what the opponent is going to do.

That’s not what Goemon is doing though. It’s not that hes analyzing his opponents and predicting them. It’s not even listed as analytical prediction (which is just skill based Precog). He’s just receiving glimpses of his opponents future actions, and they occur exactly the same in the glimpse.

You’d also have to justify he could even do that to someone who has Precog, or even analytical prediction. He’d need feats of doing that in verse. I don’t think information analysis alone would be enough to assume he’s capable of this. Even overcoming precog or analytical prediction is a skill feat you’d need to display in verse. To my knowledge, no one Bradley fought has these abilities.

 

[Armorchompy]

That’s not what Goemon is doing though. It’s not that hes analyzing his opponents and predicting them. It’s not even listed as analytical prediction (which is just skill based Precog). He’s just receiving glimpses of his opponents future actions, and they occur exactly the same in the glimpse.

You’d also have to justify he could even do that to someone who has Precog, or even analytical prediction. He’d need feats of doing that in verse. I don’t think information analysis alone would be enough to assume he’s capable of this. Even overcoming precog or analytical prediction is a skill feat you’d need to display in verse. To my knowledge, no one Bradley fought has these abilities.

That ain't how we treat it, actions are caused by their surroundings, if their surroundings change due to someone acting upon their precognition then so will the actions, simple as that.