God of War: Primordials Revision

[ParadoxIndifferent]

I was told this by a friend on Discord who was asking me about this, so I decided to create an account on this wiki and come out of lurking:

Why are the God of War Primordials listed as 3-A? As can be seen in the following intro, the feat was stretched out over a period of at least millennia, making it an extremely overtime feat. Not only that, it was done by four separate beings (potentially more). This feat would be, at the very most, 3-B, and if that.

Not only that, the God of War world follows a relatively ancient view of cosmology, with a flat earth and a fake, temple-sized Su pulled into the sky by Helios, suggesting that most of the stars seen in the feat aren't as big as the real thing. Which means this feat has the potential not to be even tier 7 given how overtime it was, and how small the God of War universe should be in general.

This would also make some of the statements regarding the Olympians beating the Primordials, which this wiki apparently disregards, more reasonable, since the Primordials would end up being pretty much featless aside from this.

 

[Kepekley23]

...No.

I'll elaborate while I post this, but this is incorrect. Both the common "the GoW cosmology is wonky ancient cosmology", and the assessment that the feat is overtime, and basically everything.

 

[Kepekley23]

1. The feat wasn't overtime. It was instantaneous. What took an "eternity" was the creation of the Earth, not the creation of the universe. It was only done by one primordial, Uranus, the guy who you see the stars coming out of in the introduction. The artbook of the game outright confirms that it's him, and that he created the heavens/universe. There are multiple statements in the Comics confirming he created the universe, too. The other primordials scale to him, since the universe was punched out from his body by another Primordial fighting him to begin with

2. The God of War universe isn't a wonky universe. While the Earth itself is flat, the rest of the universe is completely normal in size. In the first GoW game, Ares takes you to his personal dimension which mirrors the normal universe, and you can see galaxies and nebulae in the background (galaxies weren't known to the ancient greeks).

2a. Helios's Chariot isn't the actual God of War version of the Sun. It's merely a personification/embodiment of it. The actual Sun still exists outside the Earth, in outer space. In God of War 3 the Chariot is destroyed by Perses and absolutely nothing happens to the rest of the world. After Helios's death, you can see the true Sun in the sky being blotted out by clouds.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

A while back there was a God of War upgrade thread proposing that everyone be upgraded to 3-A due to the fact they scaled to the Primordials, and one of the reasons it was rejected was because the universe wasn't as big as in real life - so why is there a visible double standard when people scale, but not when they don't?

> It was only done by one primordial, Uranus, the guy who you see the stars coming out of in the introduction. The artbook of the game outright confirms that it's him, and that he created the heavens/universe.

Scans of this? Because, as far as I know, in-game there is nothing to differentiate between the primordials name-wise, and all we have is one line by Gaia.

> There are multiple statements in the Comics confirming he created the universe, too

Scans?

> While the Earth itself is flat, the rest of the universe is completely normal in size. In the first GoW game, Ares takes you to his personal dimension which mirrors the normal universe, and you can see galaxies and nebulae in the background (galaxies weren't known to the ancient greeks).

God of War 1 was released far before the verse's cosmology was established. In fact, God of War 1 ends with the assumption that Kratos remained as a God for all of eternity, since there are shots of World War I and II with Kratos overseeing them, which got retconned to all hell by the next games. We have multiple statements that go against this.

> Helios's Chariot isn't the actual God of War version of the Sun. It's merely a personification/embodiment of it. The actual Sun still exists outside the Earth, in outer space.

Except Gaia outright states that the Sun plummeted from the sky when the Chariot falls. And said Sun is about the size of a cabin in diameter.

 

[Kepekley23]

I completely disagree with that assertion and the profiles have certainly not been updated to reflect such a thing. I avoided that thread actively - if that was one of the reasons, then it's outright wrong.

> Scans of this? Because, as far as I know, in-game there is nothing to differentiate between the primordials name-wise, and all we have is one line by Gaia.

Artbook sca

> Scans?

1 2 3

> God of War 1 was released far before the verse's cosmology was established. In fact, God of War 1 ends with the assumption that Kratos remained as a God for all of eternity, since there are shots of World War I and II with Kratos overseeing them, which got retconned to all hell by the next games

That's untrue. That scene was clarified as Kratos having visions of the future in the God of War 1 novel, which is more in line with the other games where we see Kratos having visions of the future/past while asleep (see Ghost of Sparta).

Plus, the GOW1 bonus videos clearly show that Santa Monica made the series with the idea that the Gods faded overtime, since Cronos's remnants were found on a desert in modern day.

> Except Gaia outright states that the Sun plummeted from the sky when the Chariot falls.

Gaia made that statement on Kratos' point of view. Gaia herself later states to the audience that the Sun Chariot merely allows Helios's light to shine down on mankind. This is made self-evident by the fact that the Sun Chariot has absolutely no powers without Helios atop it, since it couldn't stop Morpheus' fog.

You also ignored the fact that God of War 3 completely debunks this. Ascension also goes against this, since there is a reference to "the core of the sun" in the lore.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

But in the thread the argument that the universe was small was used to debunk the Olympians scaling. Not only that, the argument that it took all four Primordials to do it was also used.

 

[Kepekley23]

All of these arguments are false, weren't actually applied, and aren't up to par.

You should debate with your own points, not with what other threads argued. Either call the people who perpetuated that here or use your own points.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

Either way, God of War has a flat Earth; that, by proxy, would suggest a small unvierse/setting, no?

 

[Kepekley23]

As I elaborated, no. Galaxies are explicitly a thing that are portrayed in God of War 1. The Sun is stated to have a core, and appears like a real Sun in God of War 3. Plus, the new Norse God of War game has universe-sized and legitimate cosmos within its realms, too. Multiple triptychs depict galaxy clusters and nebulae when you're accessing the Realm Between Realms.

This misconception that the GoW universe is small in this wiki was perpetuated by that thread. It's untrue.

 

[Kepekley23]

And that's also a non-sequitur.

 

[WindGodAcheron]

The God of War universe is a proper universe and anyone who is worth a damn scales to creating or destroying it (with the new game making that clear), but even ignoring that, Kepekley is correct.

The old thread I made has a big wall of text on the cosmology and standing of the verse. Facts remain that the Primordials are 3-A, even if you decide to ignore those who are > them.

 

[Kepekley23]

For god's sake, let's avoid the thread shifting into that subject, pu-rease.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

It's strange. From the beginning of the intro it takes only one punch and Boom Universe!. But the others seen only create the earth and the water from losing and arm and falling down. You think far more would have happened.

Tho my GoW knowledge has diminished by a lot but looking at the above I agree with Kepekley23.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

I have a question after reading that wall of text... if we don't reject the Primordials being 3-A, why don't the Olympians and Titans, who have quite a few feats regarding overpowering and forcing Primordials to leave, as well as feats on the same scale which we disregard, scale to them?

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

Also, the Norse games should be taken into account.

 

[Egarroyo0330]

The Olympians and Titans beating them is considered an outlier on here, even though there is a lot of statements and confirmations of them being that strong, hopefully the new GoW helps change that.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Do the Olympians and Titans even have feats close to that level?, They don't seem depicted as that strong.

True you don't always need feats because of scaling but still, turning High 6-A's into 3-A's is a big jump.

 

[Egarroyo0330]

It's talked about more in the books and lore, as well as many Dev. confirmations, it was mostly because it would be hard to make them seem that strong the whole game, it's the same reason Kratos "struggles" to open gates but can overpower beings that can lift the world.

It's only a big jump because people didn't know about much of the books or lore, some don't even know there are books.

 

[Egarroyo0330]

Also, for the love of the Gods, is anyone ever going to change Kratos's lifting strength to at least E, he is stronger than every character, yet has a lower lifting strength than like 6 of them, some of which scale off of him to be E, yet he is only T.

I know it's not really important, but seeing it is triggering my OCD, not that I actually have that, but you get the idea.

 

[SevenSins2Sides]

Do the Olympians and Titans even have feats close to that level?, They don't seem depicted as that strong.
True you don't always need feats because of scaling but still, turning High 6-A's into 3-A's is a big jump.

Gaia created Uranus. Cronos has defeated him. Another Dev said Atlas is physically superior to Cronos who defeated Uranus.and Zeus has harmed Gaea. the Animations Director outright stated Titans and the Olympians are as strong as the primoridals because they replaced each other.


Mind you Gaea creating Uranus was retconned but some Dev said all they myths and their interpretations are true, even if we didn't take his word for it though, Cronos still handed his father Uranus his ass. As was stated by the aforementioned Animations Director, who also awcknlowedged that fight would've had a cosmic feels to it much like the Ascension intro.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

How did Gaia create Uranus if Uranus created the universe?.

I'm tired so I'm likely wrong.

 

[Kepekley23]

Gaia didn't create Uranus. That was retconned by Ascension and the comics.

 

[Egarroyo0330]

Gaia didn't create Uranus, she came after the Primordial War, and later created Cronos with Uranus, who later overthrew him.

 

[SevenSins2Sides]

Gaia didn't create Uranus. That was retconned by Ascension and the comics.

And I said this.

 

[SevenSins2Sides]

Gaia didn't create Uranus, she came after the Primordial War, and later created Cronos with Uranus, who later overthrew him.

^ pretty much this. So we have a titan > a primordial and we all know how Cornos met his Fate. With that I tihnk we're full circle.

 

[Kepekley23]

That is derail, though. Create a thread for that if you will.

I'm closing this because it's concluded. Primordials remain 3-A.