God of War: Minor Athena CRT

[KLOL506]

So I noticed something peculiar. Athena lacks Sealing on her profile.

She should have the ability. She literally put Hope in Pandora's Box the same way Zeus put the Great Evils in the Box and then sealed them off. Athena sealed off Hope as a failsafe in case the Great Evils were ever let free.

And maybe a "Possibly Resistance to Sealing" for PoH Kratos, since despite not using the power against him, Athena could legit do nothing about it and was just terrified of him in that state, and she knew from the inside out how the power works.

EDIT: And yes, this is 5-D Type 1 Conceptual Sealing, since we classified Hope as a Low 1-C 5D force in this CRT, and because Hope was classified as a Type 1 Concept much earlier so due to going above and beyond the Great Evils, which go above and beyond the Primordials.

Agree (Sealing): 19 - Boyinluv2002, Planck69, TokiNoOuja, ShionAH, LuffyRuffy46307, GilverTheProtoAngelo (Agrees with outright Resistance instead of possibly), Marvel_Champion_07, DarkDragonMedeus, Gasper, Reiner, Fixxed, Georredannea15, Eseseso, BEASTHEART880, KingTempest, Theglassman12, DemonGodMitchAubin, LordGriffin1000, Emirp_sumitpo,

Disagree (Sealing): 1 (Maybe?) - Tony_di_bugalu (Maybe?)

Neutral (Sealing): -

Agree (Possibly Sealing Resistance for Kratos): 15 (7 Possible, 8 Outright) - Boyinluv2002, Planck69 (Agrees with Gilver on an Outright rating), LuffyRuffy46307, GilverTheProtoAngelo (Agrees with outright Resistance instead of possibly), Marvel_Champion_07, Reiner (Agrees with outright Resistance), Fixxed (Agrees with outright Resistance), Georredannea15, Eseseso (Agrees with outright Resistance), BEASTHEART880, KingTempest (Agrees with Outright Resistance), Theglassman12, DemonGodMitchAubin, LordGriffin1000, Emirp_sumitpo (Agrees with Outright Resistance instead of Possibly),

Agree (Outright Resistance for Kratos): 8 - Planck69, GilverTheProtoAngelo, Marvel_Champion_07, Reiner, Fixxed, Eseseso, Emirp_sumitpo, KingTempest,

Disagree (Possibly Sealing Resistance for Kratos): 2 - ShionAH, Tony_di_bugalu,

Neutral (Possibly Sealing Resistance for Kratos): 2 - DarkDragonMedeus, Gasper,

 

[KLOL506]

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @GilverTheProtoAngelo @Emirp sumitpo @DemonGodMitchAubin @Maverick_Zero_X @LordGriffin1000 @Elizhaa

 

[Khanhba01]

Agree, but Athena's sealing is 4D or 5D?

 

[TokiNoOuja]

Agree with the sealing (Dunno why its not on her profile like from a long time ago)

I skeptics with the sealing resistence for Kratos, because Athena needs the Box to seal Hope while the Box isn't there or at least near her so maybe it just out of her reach or something

 

[KLOL506]

Agree, but Athena's sealing is 4D or 5D?

5D. I forgot to mention it. Now I have.

 

[KLOL506]

Agree with the sealing (Dunno why its not on her profile like from a long time ago)

I skeptics with the sealing resistence for Kratos, because Athena needs the Box to seal Hope while the Box isn't there or at least near her so maybe it just out of her reach or something

A couple dozen meters of range is unlikely to be an issue for here. She absolutely could've tried something, but she didn't.

 

[Planck69]

Agree with this obviously.

Agree, but Athena's sealing is 4D or 5D?

5-D.

 

[TokiNoOuja]

A couple dozen meters of range is unlikely to be an issue for here. She absolutely could've tried something, but she didn't.

So basicly Goddess Athena could seal Hope but his Ascended form cant do a jackshit when hope was inside Kratos cuz that means Kratos control it and Athena cant do anything?

 

[Planck69]

Agree with the sealing (Dunno why its not on her profile like from a long time ago)

I skeptics with the sealing resistence for Kratos, because Athena needs the Box to seal Hope while the Box isn't there or at least near her so maybe it just out of her reach or something

The Evils permeate all of reality, much less Hope and she could summon and seal it just fine. Considering the fact that she talks about this not one minute before she's cowering before Kratos, much less the fact she had to beg Kratos for it rather than just forcibly locking it away, it's a likely chance that she simply couldn't, at least to me.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I thought we didn't give someone resistances just because a villain didn't use it against them.

Like a villain having hypnosis and not using it against a guy who eventually totally defeated him.

If a villain has lots of powers and abilities but doesn't demonstrate some of them against guys in a life-or-death battle, then should those guys possibly have resistance to all the abilities that this villain hasn't used?

And both Zeus and Athena sealed Hope in Pandora's box, it seems to me that they need this box to seal.

 

[KLOL506]

I thought we didn't give someone resistances just because a villain didn't use it against them.

Like a villain having hypnosis and not using it against a guy who eventually totally defeated him.

It's one thing for a villain being utterly defeated by them and another who know the power inside out and are terrified when it's in the hands of someone they know they can't do shit about. GoW's case works much like that.

If a villain has lots of powers and abilities but doesn't demonstrate some of them against guys in a life-or-death battle, then should those guys possibly have resistance to all the abilities that this villain hasn't used?

Depends on context. In this case, the context justifies it. Athena was scared to death with Kratos of all people wielding Hope, knowing what he could do with it to her, given that she knows the Power of Hope and its mechanics from the inside out.

And both Zeus and Athena sealed Hope in Pandora's box, it seems to me that they need this box to seal.

That's how Sealing in general works tho. Sealing most of the time requires a container of the sort. Literally says so in the ability page itself.

 

[Planck69]

They needed the box to act as a container, subduing and summoning the Evils and Hope wasn't a concern for them. Not to mention Sealing requiring a container is a basic tenet of the power in general

As for the rest of that, this isn't a "Lord Evil could've just forgotten to use his mind control in that moment" situation. This is "Lord Evil gave a whole monologue about how he mind controlled the last Chosen One and not 10 seconds later was utterly helpless against this one".

Like, Athena knew she sealed Hope before and could summon it to her beck and call. Yet, she's completely incapable of forcing Kratos to hand it over or taking it away herself. That's enough for a Possibly, even if not the full rating.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I definitely agree

 

[KLOL506]

Again, this is a "Possibly" because while Athena didn't use it against him, she knew how the power worked from the inside out and was terrified to death when it fell into the hands of Kratos himself. That and hax becomes less relevant in GoW the more magical prowess you possess. It's why Zeus couldn't just go the Power Null way in his fight with Kratos in GoW3 anymore like he did at the very beginning of GoW2, it literally became a slug-fest of attrition of "who hits the hardest".

 

[KLOL506]

They needed the box to act as a container, subduing and summoning the Evils and Hope wasn't a concern for them. Not to mention Sealing requiring a container is a basic tenet of the power in general

As for the rest of that, this isn't a "Lord Evil could've just forgotten to use his mind control in that moment" situation. This is "Lord Evil gave a whole monologue about how he mind controlled the last Chosen One and not 10 seconds later was utterly helpless against this one".

Like, Athena knew she sealed Hope before and could summon it to her beck and call. Yet, she's completely incapable of forcing Kratos to hand it over or taking it away herself. That's enough for a Possibly, even if not the full rating.

This. 100% this.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

It's one thing for a villain being utterly defeated by them and another who know the power inside out and are terrified when it's in the hands of someone they know they can't do shit about. GoW's case works much like that

In the example I gave, the guy has anthem and uses it (via look). But throughout a life-or-death struggle, he doesn't use who he's up against. He could just use hypnosis and call it a day if it worked.

Depends on context. In this case, the context justifies it. Athena was scared to death with Kratos of all people wielding Hope, knowing what he could do with it to her, given that she knows the Power of Hope and its mechanics from the inside out.

What if this guy who defeated the villain, who gives an example, was super recognized by the villain for being powerful and skilled?

 

[TokiNoOuja]

It's one thing for a villain being utterly defeated by them and another who know the power inside out and are terrified when it's in the hands of someone they know they can't do shit about. GoW's case works much like that.


Depends on context. In this case, the context justifies it. Athena was scared to death with Kratos of all people wielding Hope, knowing what he could do with it to her, given that she knows the Power of Hope and its mechanics from the inside out.


That's how Sealing in general works tho. Sealing most of the time requires a container of the sort. Literally says so in the ability page itself.

About the latter part,can Zeus/Athena use the sealing ability on a match?cuz the box arent there

 

[Phsccarvalho]

They needed the box to act as a container, subduing and summoning the Evils and Hope wasn't a concern for them. Not to mention Sealing requiring a container is a basic tenet of the power in general

As for the rest of that, this isn't a "Lord Evil could've just forgotten to use his mind control in that moment" situation. This is "Lord Evil gave a whole monologue about how he mind controlled the last Chosen One and not 10 seconds later was utterly helpless against this one".

Like, Athena knew she sealed Hope before and could summon it to her beck and call. Yet, she's completely incapable of forcing Kratos to hand it over or taking it away herself. That's enough for a Possibly, even if not the full rating.

I hadn't seen that message. Think it makes sense?

 

[KLOL506]

About the latter part,can Zeus/Athena use the sealing ability on a match?cuz the box arent there

Most definitely, but it wouldn't last very long because as Hephaestus said, the Great Evils could not be easily contained, no point in sealing them in a pressure cooker if the Great Evils just then, tore it apart due to their power.

In the example I gave, the guy has anthem and uses it (via look). But throughout a life-or-death struggle, he doesn't use who he's up against. He could just use hypnosis and call it a day if it worked.


What if this guy who defeated the villain, who gives an example, was super recognized by the villain for being powerful and skilled?

Planck answered that response better than I could.

 

[ShionAH]

And maybe a "Possibly Resistance to Sealing" for PoH Kratos, since despite not using the power against him, Athena could legit do nothing about it and was just terrified of him in that state, and she knew from the inside out how the power works.

Disagree. We dont give resistances because the villian didnt use it, its PIS

 

[KLOL506]

Disagree. We dont give resistances because the villian didnt use it, its PIS

Might wanna read Planck's response again please.

They needed the box to act as a container, subduing and summoning the Evils and Hope wasn't a concern for them. Not to mention Sealing requiring a container is a basic tenet of the power in general

As for the rest of that, this isn't a "Lord Evil could've just forgotten to use his mind control in that moment" situation. This is "Lord Evil gave a whole monologue about how he mind controlled the last Chosen One and not 10 seconds later was utterly helpless against this one".

Like, Athena knew she sealed Hope before and could summon it to her beck and call. Yet, she's completely incapable of forcing Kratos to hand it over or taking it away herself. That's enough for a Possibly, even if not the full rating.

 

[Planck69]

Disagree. We dont give resistances because the villian didnt use it, its PIS

I'd say the fact that she acknowledged that she could just summon and subdue Hope from across reality and then instantly after the monologue, utterly fail to force it out of Kratos or just take it back is intentional.

 

[ShionAH]

Might wanna read Planck's response again please.

I read it. We still have no proof Kratos resists it other than "Athena didnt do it because she couldnt do it"

PIS is extremely wrong and would mess up the wiki if we used it lol

 

[ShionAH]

I'd say the fact that she acknowledged that she could just summon and subdue Hope from across reality and then instantly after the monologue, utterly fail to force it out of Kratos or just take it back is intentional.

Itentional or not. We dont see any resistance nor statements about it so its just PIS

 

[KLOL506]

Why do you think it's a "Possibly" rating instead of outright being that?

 

[ShionAH]

This page explains it better than I can.

 

[Planck69]

Guess we'll mark you as disagree then. I really can't be arsed to deal with PIS Parroting then.

 

[KLOL506]

This page explains it better than I can.

I'm just going to say that Athena being terrified to death of Kratos being PIS is simply put, utter BS.

Athena knows literally everything about the Power of Hope. She summoned it and placed it in the box as a failsafe. Became desperate as **** begging Kratos to give it back to her once she realized it was in him all along, even giving a big-ass monologue about it before and after knowing about the whole ordeal, and then got terrified rightfully so when Kratos pretended to turn on her.

But you do you I suppose. Marking you as a "Disagree".

 

[KLOL506]

Also @ShionAH do you at least agree with the Sealing stuff for Athena?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I disagree with this too, literally no reason beyond "uh Athena was scared"

We literally have this trope across fiction of X not using something that would 100% save them or win them a fight and it never ends in the other party somehow being resistant to the powers X.

I repeat, X not using Z hax to defeat Y doesn't mean Y can resist it

 

[ShionAH]

I'm just going to say that Athena being terrified to death of Kratos being PIS is simply put, utter BS.

No? It happens a lot actually. Look at flash for examle, he is terrified of a lot of stuff he can run from

Athena knows literally everything about the Power of Hope. She summoned it and placed it in the box as a failsafe. Became desperate as **** begging Kratos to give it back to her once she realized it was in him all along, even giving a big-ass monologue about it before and after knowing about the whole ordeal, and then got terrified rightfully so when Kratos pretended to turn on her.

Oh wow the main character after getting a power up scares his foes. So surprising. Come on man we all know its literally the common trope and CIS

Also @ShionAH do you at least agree with the Sealing stuff for Athena?

Thats solid

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I disgaree, this should just be Concept Sealing resistance. There's no need of possibly. It's quite clear Athena can't do jackshit, this is full resistance given the context.

 

[KLOL506]

I disagree with this too, literally no reason beyond "uh Athena was scared"

We literally have this trope across fiction of X not using something that would 100% save them or win them a fight and it never ends in the other party somehow being resistant to the powers X.

I repeat, X not using Z hax to defeat Y doesn't mean Y can resist it

Already debated this ad nauseam but we'll put you up as a disagree on it as well.

And thoughts about the Sealing stuff?

 

[ShionAH]

It's quite clear Athena can't do jackshit, this is full resistance given the context.

Athena doesnt do jack shit doesnt mean Kratos resist every single hax she has. This is a common trope in media.

 

[KLOL506]

I disgaree, this should just be Concept Sealing resistance. There's no need of possibly. It's quite clear Athena can't do jackshit, this is full resistance given the context.

So you're a full on-agree?

 

[Planck69]

I disgaree, this should just be Concept Sealing resistance. There's no need of possibly. It's quite clear Athena can't do jackshit, this is full resistance given the context.

Personally, I agree too. But since she technically doesn't make the attempt, the modifier was chosen to be safe.

 

[ShionAH]

Is this happening because of the Dante match?

 

[KLOL506]

Athena doesnt do jack shit doesnt mean Kratos resist every single hax she has.

Why are the other hax the subject of this discussion when the main topic at hand is about Sealing?

Plus, Kratos resists those abilities from others anyway and then has those resistances scaled up a ******* bunch with Hope because of GoW's magic UES shenanigans that scales powers, abilities, strength, durability and resistances to the same level so this is a moot point anyway.

This is a common trope in media.

Most of them don't involve the other guy giving a big-ass monologue about said powers to begin with.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Athena doesnt do jack shit doesnt mean Kratos resist every single hax she has. This is a common trope in media.

Athena's sealing is based on CM1, which Kratos utterly resists. There's a certain amount of manipulation involved. If she was capable of manipulating Hope, she would have extracted Hope out of him without need of begging him, or could have taken away Hope from Humanity after Kratos had given it to them. She couldn't do neither. Because Hope >>>>> Athena. Hence obvuious resistance.

 

[KLOL506]

Is this happening because of the Dante match?

No. Someone pointed it out that it was missing from Athena.