Megaraptor149
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Yes I understand your feelings. That's the reason why I prefer to discuss this later on CRT rather than in the discussion thread directly.
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God of Highschool Major Upgrade CRT!! Multiversal Mori is REALLL!
- Thread starter Maitreya12
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Honestly, might be best to just close the CRT and do another one later where everything has the explanations and scans for it.
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It would just be redundant because the discussion on where the scans would go happens in the discussion thread. I just want to settle the main points here and then the profiles can be revised:
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You could probably just write out the extra details Ovens mentions tomorrow (or some other day) and we can come back to this
It's not like it's that hard to grab a few images to put onto the profile and how it'd all scale out
On that note: I think it would be much better if a detailed explaination for why specific abilities are 4D, rather than just putting them at 4D (though all of their abilities probably inherently be that for the most part on account of Mori just being Low 2-C/2-C with his body omnipresent across time)
It's not like it's that hard to grab a few images to put onto the profile and how it'd all scale out
On that note: I think it would be much better if a detailed explaination for why specific abilities are 4D, rather than just putting them at 4D (though all of their abilities probably inherently be that for the most part on account of Mori just being Low 2-C/2-C with his body omnipresent across time)
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- #45
I don’t know about “dozens of other characters” but Mujin should scale for being able to graze Mori so he should massively downscale from that.
The other things like the lifting strength upgrades can be discussed in the other downgrade thread that needs to be made after this one for the earlier arc characters.
Megaraptor149
He/Him- 1,981
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Pretty sure, better to close this thread for temporarily and revise a sandbox for justification and scan later
Megaraptor149
He/Him- 1,981
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The most important thing for revision is Mori, Mujin and also Tathagata profile. Ignore for some other characters beside them, it can be made in other CRT
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Yeah, I wanted to know if I should specify if certain abilities are 4D on the profile since it was said that some of Mori’s haxes are Smurf level and was told that it was better to specify for clarity sake.
I could update certain explanations like “Causality Manipulation (Controls the universe on a 4D level, stopped the solar system from being destroyed.)” or something like that.
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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People do be rushing people for the CRT. And then when the CRT came they asked why it's rushed. That's why ovens prolly didn't do it no more.
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I’m just gonna make a list of things that either need justification or scans to them. And see if this is a better explanation.
The first being the justification for his Universal+ and low Multiversal rating multiple people said disapproved of. So either we can change the key to something like this:
At least Universe Level+ (Attained a state of being that could maintain the universe which includes the Heavenly Realm and the Sage Realm. Is capable of observing past, present, and future from a place where time and space overlap.), likely Low Multiversal Level (Can govern all of creation as a spirit in Nirvana.)
Or add links to the original rating so it looks more like this:
At least Universe level+ (Attained a state of being that could govern all creation. Is capable of observing past, present, and future from a place where time and space overlap), likely Low Multiverse level (The universe contains multiple dimensions like the Divine Realm and the Sage Realm. Mori was capable of overlapping multiple universes to summon other Mori Jins to aid him in battle, however it is unknown how he did this)
Which one is preferable? The other justifications I’ll get to later.
The first being the justification for his Universal+ and low Multiversal rating multiple people said disapproved of. So either we can change the key to something like this:
At least Universe Level+ (Attained a state of being that could maintain the universe which includes the Heavenly Realm and the Sage Realm. Is capable of observing past, present, and future from a place where time and space overlap.), likely Low Multiversal Level (Can govern all of creation as a spirit in Nirvana.)
Or add links to the original rating so it looks more like this:
At least Universe level+ (Attained a state of being that could govern all creation. Is capable of observing past, present, and future from a place where time and space overlap), likely Low Multiverse level (The universe contains multiple dimensions like the Divine Realm and the Sage Realm. Mori was capable of overlapping multiple universes to summon other Mori Jins to aid him in battle, however it is unknown how he did this)
Which one is preferable? The other justifications I’ll get to later.
Megaraptor149
He/Him- 1,981
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"Mori was capable of overlapping multiple universes to summon other Mori Jins to aid him in battle, however it is unknown how he did this"
Remove this part, this just Spatial hax and range. Also is not Mori do this in previous Key?
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Mori’s resistance to fate manipulation really isn’t hyperbolic nor vague
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Nah, the "overlapping" one was just Spatial Manipulation with Low 2-C to 2-C range.
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Resistance to causality manipulation is also not vague as mori is stated that he’s free from the laws of nature. Causality is one of the laws of nature
Megaraptor149
He/Him- 1,981
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Actually "free from the law nature" is webtoon mistranslation, the actual translation from raw is "free from physical bonding"
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Jesus Christ this a mess.
lowkey getting snake vibes from @Megaraptor149 where was him in the discussion thread I’m pretty sure he was keeping up with it and decided to do this in the crt for some reason. yea I’m not arguing the same topics with someone who was in the discussion thread maybe on other topics which he didn’t tackle there.
Omniscience~ its stated mori will be able to maintain past present and future and oversee all things and all creation from nirvana which includes characters like monster gods humans even in different universes he should be able see their past and future aswell unless these are higher than him or something exists outside his omni ranges and characters like Buddha knew truths behind the universe and sees mori as a perfect being. If somehow mori shown limitations I’ll like to see Like being bound to one universe only gaining some version of the past and future
or what do we know exists in the verse that mori wouldn’t aswell
he knows he’s a fictional character Aswell.
Multi location time travel~ I’m pretty sure putting something in the past would count has time travel. But
And how wouldn’t this fit from Multilocation the avatar are him he just creating himself from nirvana seeing how he can’t leave putting himself in different timelines existing simultaneously the ability itself said it’s not limited to avatar creation .
the rest I just don’t care about or I agree with.
if mori was really overlapping universes that would count as significantly affect not just hax same as maintaining the universe maybe it even Better which I’m just pointing out
now notice the things I said are the same arguments for some stuff @Megaraptor149 is considering vague which was added anyways
.probably cause I’m not a mod or have over thousands comments or something I was ignored they certainly didn’t give a counter argument.
lowkey getting snake vibes from @Megaraptor149 where was him in the discussion thread I’m pretty sure he was keeping up with it and decided to do this in the crt for some reason. yea I’m not arguing the same topics with someone who was in the discussion thread maybe on other topics which he didn’t tackle there.
Omniscience~ its stated mori will be able to maintain past present and future and oversee all things and all creation from nirvana which includes characters like monster gods humans even in different universes he should be able see their past and future aswell unless these are higher than him or something exists outside his omni ranges and characters like Buddha knew truths behind the universe and sees mori as a perfect being. If somehow mori shown limitations I’ll like to see Like being bound to one universe only gaining some version of the past and future
or what do we know exists in the verse that mori wouldn’t aswell
he knows he’s a fictional character Aswell.
Multi location time travel~ I’m pretty sure putting something in the past would count has time travel. But
And how wouldn’t this fit from Multilocation the avatar are him he just creating himself from nirvana seeing how he can’t leave putting himself in different timelines existing simultaneously the ability itself said it’s not limited to avatar creation .the rest I just don’t care about or I agree with.
if mori was really overlapping universes that would count as significantly affect not just hax same as maintaining the universe maybe it even Better which I’m just pointing out
@azontr @Maitreya themselves wanted to make the crt not people which they had time to fix. I noted ap rating were weak and had no links stuff needed to be remove
now notice the things I said are the same arguments for some stuff @Megaraptor149 is considering vague which was added anyways
.probably cause I’m not a mod or have over thousands comments or something I was ignored they certainly didn’t give a counter argument.
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Ok so it seems like this version is preferable to the “overlapping dimensions” justification:
At least Universe Level+ (Attained a state of being that could maintain the universe which includes the Heavenly Realm and the Sage Realm. Is capable of observing past, present, and future from a place where time and space overlap.), likely Low Multiversal Level (Can govern all of creation as a spirit in Nirvana.)
If someone thinks this could be reworded a little then recommendations are welcome. But I’m also gonna go over some of the contested abilities and provide either reasonings or scans for their justification on the profile right here so they can be discussed.
At least Universe Level+ (Attained a state of being that could maintain the universe which includes the Heavenly Realm and the Sage Realm. Is capable of observing past, present, and future from a place where time and space overlap.), likely Low Multiversal Level (Can govern all of creation as a spirit in Nirvana.)
If someone thinks this could be reworded a little then recommendations are welcome. But I’m also gonna go over some of the contested abilities and provide either reasonings or scans for their justification on the profile right here so they can be discussed.
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- #62
Mind Manipulation: This one should be fairly simple as this is from Mori both scaling above Mujin as the supreme god but also he made tathagata submit despite him being inside Mujin’s own mind. Basically just goes alongside his passive aura as another ability.
Fate Manipulation: This one I think is also fairly straightforward. Mori as the supreme god should naturally be superior above Tathagata who could induce the karmic cycle onto reality. The same thing that Mori was not only able to end himself but he even gained control of Karma itself when he reached Nirvana.
Law Manipulation: This one is from both showings and statements of Mori controlling the laws of nature or from him ordering the universe back to the way it once was, controlling said universe on a 4D scale. And from him ordering Mujin to disappear with just his words alone as he has command over all of reality there.
Transduality type 2: This one I’ll explain more in depth the reasoning for it being placed there. To qualify for transduality type 2 you need to be either described as being qualitatively superior in both or neither states of duality. This is something I think is demonstrated with both Mori and Mubong as they became the world itself and encompasses multiple dualities alongside it as a higher dimensional existence. This is both in line with actual Buddhist philosophy from journey to the west which GoH is obviously heavenly inspired by (Sun Wukong was even the example used for a character with transduality type 2 lol), but is also something referenced in the series itself as well.
Ok, those were some of the main points of contention I found so I’d like to hear thoughts and concerns over the justifications I provided for the abilities listed.
Fate Manipulation: This one I think is also fairly straightforward. Mori as the supreme god should naturally be superior above Tathagata who could induce the karmic cycle onto reality. The same thing that Mori was not only able to end himself but he even gained control of Karma itself when he reached Nirvana.
Law Manipulation: This one is from both showings and statements of Mori controlling the laws of nature or from him ordering the universe back to the way it once was, controlling said universe on a 4D scale. And from him ordering Mujin to disappear with just his words alone as he has command over all of reality there.
Transduality type 2: This one I’ll explain more in depth the reasoning for it being placed there. To qualify for transduality type 2 you need to be either described as being qualitatively superior in both or neither states of duality. This is something I think is demonstrated with both Mori and Mubong as they became the world itself and encompasses multiple dualities alongside it as a higher dimensional existence. This is both in line with actual Buddhist philosophy from journey to the west which GoH is obviously heavenly inspired by (Sun Wukong was even the example used for a character with transduality type 2 lol), but is also something referenced in the series itself as well.
Ok, those were some of the main points of contention I found so I’d like to hear thoughts and concerns over the justifications I provided for the abilities listed.
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- #63
The raws provide much more detail in the explanations than the webtoon translations which are known to be iffy. Like this scene for instance, in the raws it’s described as karma holding the weight of all of creation itself. But as for using the raws opposed to the actual translations needs to be asked about.
Megaraptor149
He/Him- 1,981
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Previously, in the previous discussion thread, I also said that for several abilities it was indeed a bit inconclusive for an explanation with a relatively weak justification for the reason, but somehow some of the abilities that I suggested to remove from the sandbox remained. The reason why I'm expressing my opinion on CRT is because it should be done and better done than in a discussion thread which is also not considered neutral because it contains several members who support GOH. Something similar might also have to be done if revising might be better done on a CRT than a special discussion thread for verses.Jesus Christ this a mess.
lowkey getting snake vibes from @Megaraptor149 where was him in the discussion thread I’m pretty sure he was keeping up with it and decided to do this in the crt for some reason. yea I’m not arguing the same topics with someone who was in the discussion thread maybe on other topics which he didn’t tackle there.
Omniscience~ its stated mori will be able to maintain past present and future and oversee all things and all creation from nirvana which includes characters like monster gods humans even in different universes he should be able see their past and future aswell unless these are higher than him or something exists outside his omni ranges and characters like Buddha knew truths behind the universe and sees mori as a perfect being. If somehow mori shown limitations I’ll like to see Like being bound to one universe only gaining some version of the past and future
or what do we know exists in the verse that mori wouldn’t aswell
he knows he’s a fictional character Aswell.
Multi location time travel~ I’m pretty sure putting something in the past would count has time travel. But
the rest I just don’t care about or I agree with.
if mori was really overlapping universes that would count as significantly affect not just hax same as maintaining the universe maybe it even Better which I’m just pointing out
@azontr @Maitreya themselves wanted to make the crt not people which they had time to fix. I noted ap rating were weak and had no links stuff needed to be remove
now notice the things I said are the same arguments for some stuff @Megaraptor149 is considering vague which was added anyways
.probably cause I’m mod or have over thousands comments or something I was ignored they certainly didn’t give a counter argument.
It should be At least Nigh-Omniscience and it should be rightly said that Mori really knows everything that exists in all creation. Of course, he knew the past, present and future when he saw those things from Nirvana. That's why At least Nigh-Omniscience is better to give than full Omniscience.
Which was only proven when he was in Nirvana, it was shown that he only saw the past and at that time he created the Avatar to save the others. It's also still not enough to get Time Travel and Multilocation.
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- The nigh omniscience vs omniscience isn’t really a big thing and can be changed one way or the other with little to no issue I think.
- But the Multilocation and time travel are both well within the ranges of what has been displayed. Mori did in fact travel to the past while he remained in the present at the same time. So him or his avatar traveling through time does qualify as time travel and because he’s both in the present and in the past at the same time it qualifies as multiplication. You can argue that multi location has limited influence but he still retains the ability. Although there is a separate justification for multilocation as well.
- But the Multilocation and time travel are both well within the ranges of what has been displayed. Mori did in fact travel to the past while he remained in the present at the same time. So him or his avatar traveling through time does qualify as time travel and because he’s both in the present and in the past at the same time it qualifies as multiplication. You can argue that multi location has limited influence but he still retains the ability. Although there is a separate justification for multilocation as well.
Megaraptor149
He/Him- 1,981
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With such strong justification and good supporting scans I think Mind, Fate, Law Manipulation could be added as well (Also Karma in GOH has been mentioned as a form of cause and effect). Also using the Tathagata's scaling is also indispensable for that.
I'm a little less expert on Transduality stuff, besides, instead of using explanations from existing sources, it's not cross-scaling and can't be used either.
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Is it true that Jin Mori became 5D?To keep things short and simple:
Essentially Mori Dan's profile is heavily outdated and does not include his new powers/abilities along with his new keys that have been staff approved. Many major upgraded are needed to be added to Mori's profile and a few other characters as well such as Mubong as well as Xuangzang, but this has been put off on for now as the chapters for which the justifications for these upgrades are in haven't been made publicly available on webtoon, until now that is.
This sandbox has been worked and talked upon for the past little bit with all of Mori's new updated abilities and keys already put in place and is now ready after it’s revision. And so far this just needs the ok to apply to Mori's own profile. Which is what the CRT is about, so all it needs is just the go ahead to apply these changes on Mori's new updated profile. Thanks in advance.
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At least 4D for right now, but there’s talks about people wanting to upgrade him to 5D. But that’s a discussion for another time, this CRT is only focused on 4D Mori.
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There’s many mistranslations in the webtoon. In the Raws, it said that mori couldn’t even pass the 3rd dimension but said something completely different in the webtoon. You can just say that the webtoon revised that saying and said that mori is actually free from the laws of nature.
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I understand, looking at the achievements, it seems that it has a basis, what speed will it acquire?
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Ok so you agree with the fate manip, mind manip, and law manip, causality manip is already on his profile though I could revise that a little as well.
The transduality stuff the scans I use are just from the series for justification for the ability, I only made note that the ability is in line with Buddhist ideas presented in actual journey to the west literature to illustrate that the ability is more in line and isn’t outside the scope of potential abilities when reaching Nirvana. Not trying to cross scale the two.
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Even if you don’t like this argument, there’s another argument you can make that mori broke out of the karmic cycle which is a cycle events that loop infinitely, and if you can’t break it, you’ll be stuck in this cycle forever. More broke this chain when Achieving nirvana. Stated in chap 561
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For the link you send it literally says they’re beyond Ying Yang that’s why I see they have transduality type 2. Iike we’ve been explaining encompassing isn’t the end all
I guess we’re in the same boat I would’ve appreciated if you said it wasn’t ready was I repeating it atleast now their listen I guess.
Omni and nigh Omni are both ok I’m fine with him getting either but I don’t think fits nigh much.
Rest y’all came on an agreement.
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Megaraptor149
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This CRT can be applied later in the profile, but beforehand the opinion of the staff is really needed if something is missing or wrong so that the justification can be better.
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do any staff agree this crt so far ?
Megaraptor149
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No I guess, the CRT itself is kinda rushed and also the sandbox itself very messy. That's why staff opinion needed to fix it
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take this "CRT" with a grain of salt
Shiraito983
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following
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Yeah...... this ain't it chief, basically agree with the contentions brought up by @Megaraptor149. And the fact the profile lacks scans for the vast majority of abilities, resistances and stats isn't good, especially for the newly added shit, which should've absolutely had scans already linked within the explanations before posting the CRT.
You also didn't add references for the newly added abilities, resistances or scaling, which isn't allowed since references are mandatory for new profiles/scaling. Which sucks since adding references in general suck but those are the rules.
Also from a profile creator/reviser standpoint there's somethings which should be changed such as adding "and" or "&" after specific numbering for abilities, an example of that would be "Acausality (Type 3, 4: )", which should be changed to "Acausality (Type 3 and/& 4: )", Immortality numbering also need commas after each number, as in instead of "Immortality (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9: )" it should be "Immortality (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and/& 9: )", the page also has some small grammatical errors like lack of spacing between some abilities or minor misspellings, but those can be easily fixed.
After the issues I've pointed out above are resolved then the profile should be good to go.
You also didn't add references for the newly added abilities, resistances or scaling, which isn't allowed since references are mandatory for new profiles/scaling. Which sucks since adding references in general suck but those are the rules.
Also from a profile creator/reviser standpoint there's somethings which should be changed such as adding "and" or "&" after specific numbering for abilities, an example of that would be "Acausality (Type 3, 4: )", which should be changed to "Acausality (Type 3 and/& 4: )", Immortality numbering also need commas after each number, as in instead of "Immortality (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9: )" it should be "Immortality (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and/& 9: )", the page also has some small grammatical errors like lack of spacing between some abilities or minor misspellings, but those can be easily fixed.
After the issues I've pointed out above are resolved then the profile should be good to go.
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