Giratina Vs Shulk(Pokémon Vs Xenoblade)

[Ego]

Rules:

Both 2-A keys
Speed is equalized
True form Giratina is used

Giratina:

Giratina

Giratina is a Ghost/Dragon-type and a member of Sinnoh's Creation Trio. The embodiment of antimatter, it was banished to the Distortion World for its rash violence against its brethren. Even now it is said to look upon the old world from every mirror. Tier: 2-B, likely 2-A, higher in Origin Form...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Shulk:

Shulk

Why should we care? What's important isn't whether you can see the future or not. It's the will to make a choice, and the strength to seize your destiny! Our time has come. Our destiny is our own! Shulk to Zanza Shulk (シュルク) is the main protagonist of Xenoblade Chronicles. He likes to think...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Ego]

Bump

 

[Ego]

Bump

 

[Ego]

Bump

 

[theultimate5105]

Nothing seems to be stopping Giratina from sitting outside his range and sealing (as his unconventional resistence doesn't seem like it would stop him from being fully sealed)

 

[Ego]

I'll wait for more backup

 

[ThanatosX]

I agree, I don't see many ways that Shulk can win this. I will wait further arguments, but for now I am leaning towards Giratina taking this, even thought I will wait before actually voting.

 

[Ego]

I agree, I don't see many ways that Shulk can win this. I will wait further arguments, but for now I am leaning towards Giratina taking this, even thought I will wait before actually voting.

This is a battle to the spot in tier 2 non smurfs

Where would Pokémon be if Giratina actually wins this?

Because if Shulk beats Sora, and Pokémon beats Shulk, and Sora(Some BS reason) beats Pokémon

 

[Tatsumi504]

This is a battle to the spot in tier 2 non smurfs

Where would Pokémon be if Giratina actually wins this?

Because if Shulk beats Sora, and Pokémon beats Shulk, and Sora(Some BS reason) beats Pokémon

Nuke them or they share a spot

 

[Ego]

Nuke them or they share a spot

So all 3 of them would be #1?

 

[Ego]

Because wouldn't that be the same for 2-B and 2-A?

 

[Tatsumi504]

Because wouldn't that be the same for 2-B and 2-A?

Yeah but the match has to be done first.

 

[Ego]

Yeah but the match has to be done first.

Ok I'll wait for more people (although I do think Giratina and Sora should have a rematch but I'll focus on the big gun for now)

 

[ThanatosX]

Ok I'll wait for more people (although I do think Giratina and Sora should have a rematch but I'll focus on the big gun for now)

If you want you can discuss why you think so in the Giratina vs Sora thread. Making a rematch without any ability added to neither of the fighter will just result in the same points being brought up again.
Anyways, for this fight does Shulk even have wincons?

 

[Ego]

If you want you can discuss why you think so in the Giratina vs Sora thread. Making a rematch without any ability added to neither of the fighter will just result in the same points being brought up again.

Because they didn't make Giratina bloodlust and said that Giratinas type 9 immortality is "non combat implicible"

 

[ThanatosX]

Because they didn't make Giratina bloodlust and said that Giratinas type 9 immortality is "non combat implicible"

If it's for a spot in the Strongest list, SBA is assumed, so bloodlust would go against the rules for that. But that's out of topic for this match, it can be discussed another time.

 

[Sans2345]

I'm pretty sure this is a stomp in Giratina's favor, Shulk can't really do much here.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Shulk actually can do alot of stuff here since incap is an option. He has numerous ways of doing so such as Sealing, Sleep hax, etc and would know to do so through his precognition. Shulk's fate hax here protects him from anything that would kill him or perma incap him which would moot any chance of it successfully going off given it would have to be in range of it in order to hit Shulk with it plus given the other threads such as Sora Vs Gira the bfr is not Giratina's first move here. None of this is even bringing up Alvis who Giratina cannot even interact with due to ether concentration.
So Shulk's advantages of the top of my head here are.

*Precognition to allow what Giratina is capable of and how to win (in this case incap).

*Has numerous incap options with Sleep, Sealing, etc (with Sealing being shown to be effective as shown by Giratina's own lore).

*Fate hax that affects Type 4 acausality users which prevents Giratina from doing anything that could kill Shulk or permanently incap him (such as BFR).

*Shulk is capable of taking away Giratina's wincon through his power null.

*Giratina has no answer to Alvis which in turn gives him no way to actually deal with Shulk.

 

[theultimate5105]

Shulk actually can do alot of stuff here since incap is an option. He has numerous ways of doing so such as Sealing, Sleep hax, etc and would know to do so through his precognition. Shulk's fate hax here protects him from anything that would kill him or perma incap him which would moot any chance of it successfully going off given it would have to be in range of it in order to hit Shulk with it plus given the other threads such as Sora Vs Gira the bfr is not Giratina's first move here. None of this is even bringing up Alvis who Giratina cannot even interact with due to ether concentration.
So Shulk's advantages of the top of my head here are.

*Precognition to allow what Giratina is capable of and how to win (in this case incap).

*Has numerous incap options with Sleep, Sealing, etc (with Sealing being shown to be effective as shown by Giratina's own lore).

*Fate hax that affects Type 4 acausality users which prevents Giratina from doing anything that could kill Shulk or permanently incap him (such as BFR).

*Shulk is capable of taking away Giratina's wincon through his power null.

*Giratina has no answer to Alvis which in turn gives him no way to actually deal with Shulk.

None of that does anything since Giratina is too big and too far away to be effected
Also why can’t he effect Alvis

 

[JoshSSJGod]

None of that does anything since Giratina is too big and too far away to be effected

This is the Avatar key mate. Nothing is stopping Shulk here.

Also why can’t he effect Alvis

Due to ether concentration you need high conceptual NPI in order to hit Alvis.
Roughly with the scaling chain of:
Standard Conceptual NPI < Fogbeasts < Nebula < Fog King (continuously rising) < Telethia Ether Field < Fog King < Shulk's ether field << Alvis (continuous rising)

 

[ThanatosX]

Oh yeah, this is Avatar Form for some reason. Then Shulk takes this, althought I think OP wanted both characters to be at their strongest, so I will wait to see what they say.

 

[theultimate5105]

This is the Avatar key mate. Nothing is stopping Shulk here.

True form simply makes a Avatar in the distortion world then, also this is battle for strongest yet it isn’t using their best keys

Due to ether concentration you need high conceptual NPI in order to hit Alvis.
Roughly with the scaling chain of:
Standard Conceptual NPI < Fogbeasts < Nebula < Fog King (continuously rising) < Telethia Ether Field < Fog King < Shulk's ether field << Alvis (continuous rising)

 

[JoshSSJGod]

True form simply makes a Avatar in the distortion world then, also this is battle for strongest yet it isn’t using their best keys

That'll only happen if the Avatar dies which ain't gonna be the case here, it has also never done that before with other opponents so we cannot say for certain that it will know to do that before Shulk gets the W, though going off of this recent thread all you need to be able to enter the Distortion World is being able to go beyond a 2-A multiverse which Shulk is capable of as seen with Memory Space which like both Sora's Realm of Darkness and the Distortion World exists outside the space-time of the multiverse.

 

[theultimate5105]

That'll only happen if the Avatar dies which ain't gonna be the case here, it has also never done that before with other opponents so we cannot say for certain that it will know to do that before Shulk gets the W, though going off of this recent thread all you need to be able to enter the Distortion World is being able to go beyond a 2-A multiverse which Shulk is capable of as seen with Memory Space which like both Sora's Realm of Darkness and the Distortion World exists outside the space-time of the multiverse.

The Distortion world is beyond millions of 2-A multiverses however being beyond baseline is a lot harder then having multiple 2-A multiverses
So at best you can reach a millionth of beings who can’t even reach the distortion worlds range

 

[ThanatosX]

That'll only happen if the Avatar dies which ain't gonna be the case here, it has also never done that before with other opponents so we cannot say for certain that it will know to do that before Shulk gets the W, though going off of this recent thread all you need to be able to enter the Distortion World is being able to go beyond a 2-A multiverse which Shulk is capable of as seen with Memory Space which like both Sora's Realm of Darkness and the Distortion World exists outside the space-time of the multiverse.

Existing outside the Space-time of the Multiverse is not enough to get above baseline range. Both the Distortion World and the Realm of Darkness are realms inaccessible even to people with 2-A range, but Giratina is able to feeely travel between the two and Sora is able to go back to the Realm of Light even from the Realm of Darkness.
To get above baseline range you basically need to travel to a 2-A structure which have evidence to being impossible to reach even with 2-A range.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Existing outside the Space-time of the Multiverse is not enough to get above baseline range. Both the Distortion World and the Realm of Darkness are realms inaccessible even to people with 2-A range, but Giratina is able to feeely travel between the two and Sora is able to go back to the Realm of Light even from the Realm of Darkness.
To get above baseline range you basically need to travel to a 2-A structure which have evidence to being impossible to reach even with 2-A range.

Oh okay that's 100% fine then thanks for informing me. It helps as well since places like Memory Space were completely separated from the 2-A multiverse making it inaccessible until Shulk with the Monado III undid that (which on a side note funnily enough ended up causing massive problems later on via Xenoblade 3).

 

[Ego]

I should know which Giratina is better to use sense people would make the excuse "BuT iT nEver uSE tYpe 9 bEForE!!!!"

 

[Sans2345]

I should know which Giratina is better to use sense people would make the excuse "BuT iT nEver uSE tYpe 9 bEForE!!!!"

You should have put what key Giratina is in from its avatars or its true form.

 

[Ego]

I'll change it to the true form then

 

[Zencha9]

can anyone show me a scan of the CT creating new avatars once they die since it seems to be always a thing being brought up in vs threads

 

[Ego]

Bump

 

[theultimate5105]

can anyone show me a scan of the CT creating new avatars once they die since it seems to be always a thing being brought up in vs threads

Saying they wouldn't is the equivalent of saying someone would just leave the battlefield

 

[Zencha9]

Saying they wouldn't is the equivalent of saying someone would just leave the battlefield because its not IC for them to fight

i thought it was the avatar in the fight
yeah you're right

 

[SonicBayo1999]

I think Xenoblade is the better JRPG. Honestly I'll just wait for more Xeno debaters