Genshin Impact Discussion Thread

[MSahla]

Explanation of Phanes' power over Reason:

Spoiler

1. Phanes' "Reason" ≠ ordinary human reason.

When the official texts refer to Phanes as Reason, it is not "human reason."
In the context of higher cosmology, "Reason" means:
Reason = Logos = the rational principle of the universe.
Namely, the laws, structure, and order that make existence possible.

This is very close to the concept of:
Logos in Greek philosophy
Musica Universalis (universal music)
Universal Law / mechanism of the cosmos.

In other words:

Reason Phanes = the fundamental law of reality. Not "reason" like humans, but rather the highest principle that gives rise to the structure of existence.

2. Why is Reason above Death, Life, Time, and Space?

Because Death, Life, Time, and Space are merely aspects of reality.
Reason, on the other hand, is the mechanism that enables these aspects to exist.
A simple analogy:
Space = room
Time = flow of seconds
Life = biological process
Death = transition of existence

But can all of this exist without the "rules of reality"? No.
For "space" to exist, there must be laws about: what existence is, how objects occupy locations, how distance is defined. For "time" to exist, there must be laws about the sequence of events, cause and effect. For "life and death" to exist, there must be: the definition of existence, the rules for energy transformation, the boundary between continuity and cessation. All these laws are created by Reason.

So Reason = architect
while
Time, Space, Life, Death = rooms within a building.

3. Reason is the root, Shades are the branches

If Phanes is Reason, then he is not only “more powerful,” but also: Reason is the highest ontology—the source of reality. The four Shades are merely emanations, that is, “derivatives” of the principle of Reason. Just as:
Mathematics gave birth to physics.

Physics gave birth to space and time. Space and time gave birth to life.

Life gave birth to death. Reason is at the top because it is the foundation of all foundations.

 

[Voidnether]

Explanation of Phanes' power over Reason:

Spoiler

1. Phanes' "Reason" ≠ ordinary human reason.

When the official texts refer to Phanes as Reason, it is not "human reason."
In the context of higher cosmology, "Reason" means:
Reason = Logos = the rational principle of the universe.
Namely, the laws, structure, and order that make existence possible.

This is very close to the concept of:
Logos in Greek philosophy
Musica Universalis (universal music)
Universal Law / mechanism of the cosmos.

In other words:

Reason Phanes = the fundamental law of reality. Not "reason" like humans, but rather the highest principle that gives rise to the structure of existence.

Why is Reason above Death, Life, Time, and Space?
Because Death, Life, Time, and Space are merely aspects of reality.
Reason, on the other hand, is the mechanism that enables these aspects to exist.

A simple analogy:
Space = room
Time = flow of seconds
Life = biological process
Death = transition of existence

But can all of this exist without the "rules of reality"? No.
For "space" to exist, there must be laws about: what existence is, how objects occupy locations, how distance is defined. For "time" to exist, there must be laws about the sequence of events, cause and effect. For "life and death" to exist, there must be: the definition of existence, the rules for energy transformation, the boundary between continuity and cessation. All these laws are created by Reason.

So Reason = architect
while
Time, Space, Life, Death = rooms within a building.

3. Reason is the root, Shades are the branches

If Phanes is Reason, then he is not only “more powerful,” but also: Reason is the highest ontology—the source of reality. The four Shades are merely emanations, that is, “derivatives” of the principle of Reason. Just as:
Mathematics gave birth to physics.

Physics gave birth to space and time. Space and time gave birth to life.

Life gave birth to death. Reason is at the top because it is the foundation of all foundations.

this is why i told you scaling the shades attribute to the heavenly principles is a disaster, felt like they just wouldn't throw universal stuff without any context

 

[MSahla]

this is why i told you scaling the shades attribute to the heavenly principles is a disaster, felt like they just wouldn't throw universal stuff without any context

What disaster do you mean

 

[Voidnether]

What disaster do you mean

Low 2-C to literally any living entity in genshin

 

[MSahla]

Low 2-C to literally any living entity in genshin

Hows that so.

I feel like the ones who only get it is these 4 group of ppl

1. Phanes
2. Four Shades
3. Nibelung
4. Sovereigns

 

[Voidnether]

Hows that so.

I feel like the ones who only get it is these 4 group of ppl

1. Phanes
2. Four Shades
3. Nibelung
4. Sovereigns

The elephant in the room being mavuika, venti and others...

 

[MSahla]

The elephant in the room being mavuika, venti and others...

I mean they used a power from them. Just like the characters in hsr using the paths power no?

 

[Puppet43]

TALK YOUR SHIT MY GOAT I ALWAYS KNEW YOU WHERE GONNA BE A TOP TIER

THE GLAZE WILL BE IMMACULATE

Durin upscale

 

[Voidnether]

I mean they used a power from them. Just like the characters in hsr using the paths power no?

Yeah but the problem is that durin actually upscales from this amped venti, and durin fought rerir with the entire nod-krai cast. IT WAS NEVER LISTED THAT IT WAS THROUGH AUTHORITY, SO IT SCALES TO THEIR PHYSICALS

HSR on the other one was listed through paths, so those who scales to physicals are like being gatekept as hard as it could be but as far none scales to physicals

 

[MSahla]

Yeah but the problem is that durin actually upscales from this amped venti, and durin fought rerir with the entire nod-krai cast. IT WAS NEVER LISTED THAT IT WAS THROUGH AUTHORITY, SO IT SCALES TO THEIR PHYSICALS

Yeah so.. The sinners are not in the list of this low 2C unfortunately.

 

[Voidnether]

Yeah so.. The sinners are not in the list of this low 2C unfortunately.

Yo how are we making durin as Low 2-C but the rest of those who fought rerir arent

 

[MSahla]

Anyway guys.. This is a new character named Zi Bai. She's Istaroth's daughter

 

[MSahla]

Yo how are we making durin as Low 2-C but the rest of those who fought rerir arent

Are we? Because nobody trying to do that. Maybe u talk abt @Puppet43 who's agenda is Durin.

 

[Voidnether]

Are we? Because nobody trying to do that. Maybe u talk abt @Puppet43 who's agenda is Durin.

Doesn't prime durin upscale above venti, and current durin is like prime durin rn?

 

[Puppet43]

Yeah so.. The sinners are not in the list of this low 2C unfortunately.

• Top tier groups thats in narrative is countless time stated to be equals with the other 2 top tier groups
• Somehow is not Top tier in VSBW because doesnt fit the agenda that makes 1/10th of Genshin's cast like Low 2C

 

[Puppet43]

Doesn't prime durin upscale above venti, and current durin is like prime durin rn?

Let me explain

• Durin Dragonspine >= Venti and Dvalin in their primes
• Via leaks we get that Durin playable has same power as Dragonspine Durin
• Playable Durin can tank the damage of Rerir's 10% with no issue
• 10% Rerir = Playable Durin = DS Durin => Venti and Dvalin

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Yo how are we making durin as Low 2-C but the rest of those who fought rerir arent

LMAO

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

• Top tier groups thats in narrative is countless time stated to be equals with the other 2 top tier groups
• Somehow is not Top tier in VSBW because doesnt fit the agenda that makes 1/10th of Genshin's cast like Low 2C

Too much bs powerscaling even tho narratively they are comparable lmao. it's just funny. Skirk have equal stats to Surtalogi now lmao

 

[MSahla]

• Top tier groups thats in narrative is countless time stated to be equals with the other 2 top tier groups
• Somehow is not Top tier in VSBW because doesnt fit the agenda that makes 1/10th of Genshin's cast like Low 2C

5-A person and 5-B person having the same statement capable of destroying a planet, that doesn't mean the 5-B person is 5-A because they had the same statement.

Its not about agenda thing, like for real.

 

[Puppet43]

Too much bs powerscaling even tho narratively they are comparable lmao. it's just funny. Skirk have equal stats to Surtalogi now lmao

WE ARE DESTROYING NARRATIVES WITH THIS ONE

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

WE ARE DESTROYING NARRATIVES WITH THIS ONE

When Skirk vs Surtalogi in vsbw

 

[Puppet43]

5-A person and 5-B person having the same statement capable of destroying a planet, that doesn't mean the 5-B person is 5-A because they had the same statement.

Its not about agenda thing, like for real.

Sahl, i already did explain this to u

Ur example is horrible, for u to find Character A is able to do 5A attacks while Character B is just able to do attacks 5B u would need to calc each's feats, therefore u will nulifficating the statment, not to forget both characters would be still same tier, meanwhile Neuvi (Above human realm) is Low 2C but another character above Human realm like Rerir is 5B, consistency dissapear at all

When Skirk vs Surtalogi in vsbw

ALL DEVOURING NARWHAL VS SURTALOGI = SURTALOGI EXTREME DIFF

 

[Giannysmag]

Curse mandatory university labs, there's no way I'll be able to catch up wtih all 4 Acts by tommorow

 

[MSahla]

Meanwhile Neuvi (Above human realm) is Low 2C but another character above Human realm like Rerir is 5B, consistency dissapear at all

Neuvi has a better feat than him btw. Other than THAT "Above Human Realm".

Yeah both of them are above the human realm, but has Rerir done something that is far greater than being above the Human Realm? Like fighting a literal groups whose the ruler of the universe itself?

 

[MSahla]

Curse mandatory university labs, there's no way I'll be able to catch up wtih all 4 Acts by tommorow

Ofc bruh, like 4 acts in one sitting is crazy no-life thing to do

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Sahl, i already did explain this to u


ALL DEVOURING NARWHAL VS SURTALOGI = SURTALOGI EXTREME DIFF

 

[Giannysmag]

Ofc bruh, like 4 acts in one sitting is crazy no-life thing to do

I do it for my GOAT

 

[MSahla]

Had to skip Durin for this diva and bina

 

[Le'garde273]

Explanation of Phanes' power over Reason:

Spoiler

1. Phanes' "Reason" ≠ ordinary human reason.

When the official texts refer to Phanes as Reason, it is not "human reason."
In the context of higher cosmology, "Reason" means:
Reason = Logos = the rational principle of the universe.
Namely, the laws, structure, and order that make existence possible.

This is very close to the concept of:
Logos in Greek philosophy
Musica Universalis (universal music)
Universal Law / mechanism of the cosmos.

In other words:

Reason Phanes = the fundamental law of reality. Not "reason" like humans, but rather the highest principle that gives rise to the structure of existence.

2. Why is Reason above Death, Life, Time, and Space?

Because Death, Life, Time, and Space are merely aspects of reality.
Reason, on the other hand, is the mechanism that enables these aspects to exist.
A simple analogy:
Space = room
Time = flow of seconds
Life = biological process
Death = transition of existence

But can all of this exist without the "rules of reality"? No.
For "space" to exist, there must be laws about: what existence is, how objects occupy locations, how distance is defined. For "time" to exist, there must be laws about the sequence of events, cause and effect. For "life and death" to exist, there must be: the definition of existence, the rules for energy transformation, the boundary between continuity and cessation. All these laws are created by Reason.

So Reason = architect
while
Time, Space, Life, Death = rooms within a building.

3. Reason is the root, Shades are the branches

If Phanes is Reason, then he is not only “more powerful,” but also: Reason is the highest ontology—the source of reality. The four Shades are merely emanations, that is, “derivatives” of the principle of Reason. Just as:
Mathematics gave birth to physics.

Physics gave birth to space and time. Space and time gave birth to life.

Life gave birth to death. Reason is at the top because it is the foundation of all foundations.

Phanes "reason" => 理之(Lhi Zhi) refer to cosmic principles (most likely refer to The Underlying Cosmic Principle or ultimate, universal, and metaphysical principle from Confucianism and Neo-Confucianism philosophy)
Hence it's stand above and govern the very concept of life, death, time and space.

Gods limit pv "reason" "道理(Dao Li) => refer to human understanding

Align with the whole narzizenkruz quest that telling us about "reason" Is Power that accomodating order and primordial principle and able to sever universal will

 

[MSahla]

Phanes "reason" => 理之(Lhi Zhi) refer to cosmic principles (most likely refer to The Underlying Cosmic Principle or ultimate, universal, and metaphysical principle from Confucianism and Neo-Confucianism philosophy) understandin
Hence it's stand above and govern the very concept of life, death, time and space.

Gods limit pv "reason" "道理(Dao Li) => refer to human understanding

Align with the whole narzizenkruz quest that telling us about "reason" Is Power that accomodating order and primordial principle and able to sever universal will

And they still doubting about the Universal Laws.

 

[MSahla]

“理之” — literal meaning

理 = “principle,” “order,” “pattern,” “reason,” “logic,” or “the underlying law of things”
之 = classical Chinese possessive particle meaning “of”
So 理之 literally means: “of principle” or “of the principle”

(“principle’s,” “the law’s,” etc.)
The exact nuance depends on the full sentence, but by itself it simply marks possession: X of principle.

 

[Voidnether]

And they still doubting about the Universal Laws.

The one everyone is doubting is why would the shades scale to the universal law bro

 

[MSahla]

The one everyone is doubting is why would the shades scale to the universal law bro

The Shades are the Universal Laws itself alongside the Heavenly Principles as "Order" or "Logic" or "Reason", that governs absolutely everything in the universe.

They literally doubting that they are the Laws of the Universe, that including you in there btw, the one u just replied to me in there.

 

[Voidnether]

The Shades are the Universal Laws itself alongside the Heavenly Principles as "Order" or "Logic" or "Reason", that governs absolutely everything in the universe.

They literally doubting that they are the Laws of the Universe, that including you in there btw, the one u just replied to me in there.

The elephant in the room being the shades that are only functional as the emanations of heavenly principles itself, yeah atm im only believing the universal law only applies to phanes and no one else

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Hroptatyr is universal lol

 

[MSahla]

yeah atm im only believing the universal law only applies to phanes and no one else

Try to give me a good reason

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Had to skip Durin for this diva and bina

Oh Poowa ender!

 

[Le'garde273]

And they still doubting about the Universal Laws.

They four alone represents four fundamental aspect of the universe, as part of "reason". I mean... read by yourself a crumb about what "reason" Can do

But i guess keep your expectations low for now, we seem will barely have any reason authority what can do content, until snezhnaya where HP awaken and hyroptatyr lore.

 

[Puppet43]

The Shades are the Universal Laws itself alongside the Heavenly Principles as "Order" or "Logic" or "Reason", that governs absolutely everything in the universe.

They literally doubting that they are the Laws of the Universe, that including you in there btw, the one u just replied to me in there.

When the bait was believable, people used to be happy

 

[Voidnether]

Try to give me a good reason

Simple, they're emanations of said universal law which meant there's a hierarchy. If, for example, Istaroth is the universe itself, that'd be saying Istaroth is Phanes when we know that's not true. But if Phanes is the universe itself, there's nothing wrong with this argument