Genshin hax removal.

[Setsuna_tenma]

The genshin elemental energy page has so much bullshit.

• Causality Manipulation (Tlazolli stated that reconstruting one's memories can reconstruct and recover one's past. Xilonen stated upon the progress of retriving one's past through memories, the present memories of that person will be erased; she also metaphorised that in-order for one's past to be recovered, then there must also be a new present and hence the old present must be erased.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Elemental_Manipulation_(Genshin_Impact)#cite_note-53">[53]</a><a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Elemental_Manipulation_(Genshin_Impact)#cite_note-54">[54]</a><a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Elemental_Manipulation_(Genshin_Impact)#cite_note-55">[55]</a> If a Ley Lines system that pertains to one's being were to be replaced, then they'll be erased from existence and all of reality will be rewritten according to their disappearance, which causes everyone who remember the erased entity to have all their memories erased. Due to the loss of memories in the Ley Line network, certain history of many individuals will be erased and cause the Universe's overall history to be altered, potentially rewriting everything<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Elemental_Manipulation_(Genshin_Impact)#cite_note-40:-44">[44]</a>)

Nothing about it is causality hax.

First scans is just talking about memory hax, the ancient name forget is just stealing memories from others. It is all just flowery talks about memories and how it makes a people.

Second scans literally just talks about memory hax and how it will erase the people memories.

• Enhanced Existence Erasure (Soul, Memories & History; Nahida erased Greater Lord Rukkhadevata's realm of consciousness and cut its connection with Irminsul with her elemental authority.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Elemental_Manipulation_(Genshin_Impact)#cite_note-20:-14">[14]</a> Greater Lord Rukkhadevata's realm of consciousness universally shaped and governed all of Irminsul from 500 years ago, causing it to be disconnected from Irminsul's entire history.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Elemental_Manipulation_(Genshin_Impact)#cite_note-20:-14">[14]</a> Simultaneously as a byproduct, Greater Lord Rukkhadevata fundamental existence was completely erased from history<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Elemental_Manipulation_(Genshin_Impact)#cite_note-20:-14">[14]</a>)

No imirusul editing only ersed you on a type 1 info level, when baaldeer eased himself, he did not vanish all it does is erase all info about you, it is not historical erasure.

Besides why is it for all archons only nahida can do since she is the imrusl avatar none of the archons are.

Possibly Fate Manipulation & Causality Manipulation (It was implied that the gods can seize their own destinies.[70] Causality is irreversibly attached to fate[71])

no gods can`t escape fate literally next scan on another power talk about it.

Besides the whole deal with remus is him unable to escape fate and they are talking about the fortuna project. It is not something gods can do.

Fate Manipulation & Causality Manipulation (Upon attaining an elemental authority over one of the seven elements and the throne of it, they'll no longer be bound by the system of fate.[74] Casuality is irreversibly attached by fate, hence, cause and effect is tied and unseparated with the system of fate[71])

nevuillte is not an archon, why do they have this for resistance.

Possibly Acausality (Type 4 [Resistance to Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Precognition & Time Manipulation]; Elemental energy is rumoured in legends to have existed before the concept of time was even established, making it unbound by the concept of time entirely[83])

literally all of it is just flowery language about time way before. Referring to time of the dragons rule.

agree tally: Woomica , Weaver261 , FentyBeauty , Sonoftanavast9 , Rayfire ,Aseka , Shey , AyOgUyS , OmniScalator (agree on 1st one) ,Puppet43, Dog3352

Reiner04 , ActuallySpaceMan42​

 

[Furina003]

Nothing about it is causality hax.
First scans is just talking about memory hax, the ancient name forget is just stealing memories from others. It is all just flowery talks about memories and how it makes a people.

I don't care about this problem

Second scans literally just talks about memory hax and how it will erase the people memories. No imirusul editing only ersed you on a type 1 info level, when baaldeer eased himself, he did not vanish all it does is erase all info about you, it is not historical erasure.
Besides why is it for all archons only nahida can do since she is the imrusl avatar none of the archons are.

irminsul was even able to erase records in books "To accommodate the loss of information, anything pertaining to information that belongs to the world of Teyvat may be changed, ranging from people's memories to physical objects such as books and letters",

Rukhadevatta said that erasing himself would cause a paradox,
Paimon: Oh no... How could that happen...
Nahida: I've experienced that pain in your consciousness. It must've been a horrible experience.
Greater Lord Rukkhadevata: Yes, but my feelings weren't important. The important thing was that...
Greater Lord Rukkhadevata: Even if I died, my existence and everything related to me would continue to exist in Irminsul as memories and knowledge, meaning that the forbidden knowledge couldn't ever be permanently eradicated.
Greater Lord Rukkhadevata: And... there's no way for me to eliminate myself. It would be a sort of paradox.
Greater Lord Rukkhadevata: So, I took the purest branch of Irminsul as my incarnation in the next samsara, and left a trail of clues...
Greater Lord Rukkhadevata: All in hopes that you would come here and remove me and my pollution from Irminsul forever.
that's why he created Nahida as a reincarnation to prevent this paradox.

the information in the leyline is type 2 information, that's why if you change the leyline it will change reality itself.

no gods can`t escape fate literally next scan on another power talk about it.

Besides the whole deal with remus is him unable to escape fate and they are talking about the fortuna project. It is not something gods can do.

Did you know that Digenshin has 3 levels of destiny?

Fate or ancient people of remurian called as fortuna, it's something oftenly stated and important thing in genshin impact. Fate or fortuna is describe as countless music string that heavily attached to cause and effect and bound to the skies, which ruled the world, was woven from countless fibers, like the strings of a harp. Strings that resonate with the majestic music, while discord would destroy the fabric of the universe, and oftenly associated with constellation even though "the stars" Are merely show the fate not having it, explain why reading through the stars would reveal fates of peoples.

To simply put, there's three level of fates or "music" exist. Musica mundana, musica humana, and musica instrumentalis. Musica mundana represents universal fate, ruling the entire universe, it's describe as music origin that all come from and all shall return, the "rules" That govern all thing, and everything that operate in universe is follow this rules. Musica humana is music that rules mortal world and gods, akin to phobos, regulating every single physical entity including human and gods fate. Musica instrumentalis is like a symphony created by Remus, where humans control their own destiny.
Mundana music is supreme and able to control the two destinies beneath it. However, the two lower forms of music cannot alter Musica mundana.

nevuillte is not an archon, why do they have this for resistance.

neuvillette is not even tied to the constellations, which is the fate system that governs teyvat

literally all of it is just flowery language about time way before. Referring to time of the dragons rule.

try to explain to me why it is a flowery word and please provide proof?
whereas there it clearly discusses the erosion caused by time which caused the dragon civilization to be destroyed when the celestial principle arrived, which means it is not just a flowery word, moreover, one of the shades of the celestial principle is istaroth rules thr time.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

The genshin elemental energy page has so much bullshit.

Nothing about it is causality hax.

First scans is just talking about memory hax, the ancient name forget is just stealing memories from others. It is all just flowery talks about memories and how it makes a people.

Second scans literally just talks about memory hax and how it will erase the people memories.

change it to memory hax/erasure then.

No imirusul editing only ersed you on a type 1 info level, when baaldeer eased himself, he did not vanish all it does is erase all info about you, it is not historical erasure.

Besides why is it for all archons only nahida can do since she is the imrusl avatar none of the archons are.

true, also its non combat unless the location is sumeru

no gods can`t escape fate literally next scan on another power talk about it.

Besides the whole deal with remus is him unable to escape fate and they are talking about the fortuna project. It is not something gods can do.

even Ei confirms in current events gods cant do anything to fate and cause

nevuillte is not an archon, why do they have this for resistance.

what furina003 said

literally all of it is just flowery language about time way before. Referring to time of the dragons rule.

Agree.

 

[Weaver261]

Agree

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Everything looks good, I agree.

 

[Furina003]

even Ei confirms in current events gods cant do anything to fate and cause

ei only said that the gods were still bound by cause and effect, people or gods who are still bound by cause and effect is a natural thing, and that doesn't mean they can't get resistance, because if they are no longer bound by cause and effect, even lacking that aspect has become immunity, it could also be type 5 acausality. so this is not an anti-feat

 

[StrymULTRA]

Damn, Garri leaving made this to MiHoyo

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Damn, Garri leaving made this to MiHoyo

Imaginary chainscaling and some irrelevant non combat hax gone? id say not that scary

 

[StrymULTRA]

Imaginary chainscaling and some irrelevant non combat hax gone? id say not that scary

Idk HSR not being 3-B despite destroying 3-4 galaxies is kinda worrying.

 

[FentyBeauty]

makes sense, i agree

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

the information in the leyline is type 2 information, that's why if you change the leyline it will change reality itself.

This doesn't actually function as proof to claim that changing the leylines would change reality itself though, he's simply assuring the Traveler who asks "what if that memory is real?" that the abyss order didn't have the ability of altering reality just yet. I can see how you'd make the connection that by Dain saying "just yet" he's referring to their work on the leylines. However, that isn't actually solid proof and is an assumption, because it is also equally possible he's just referring to the abyss order's power on a general level (which makes sense as they are a big organization known to cause trouble everywhere they go and have plenty of power even before they started messing with the leylines in Sumeru) Also as Setsuna said, Scaramouche functions as the biggest anti feat for Irminsul having... Enhanced EE

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

bump

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Speaking of irminsul, assuming erasing memories also includes erasing informatiom from the tree
EE should be just changed as Memory and information (type 1) erasure, nothing else

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Agree with everything

 

[OmniScalator]

even Ei confirms in current events gods cant do anything to fate and cause

Please can you share the scan, I still haven't done the event and might have to speedrun it due to being lazy.

Also in genshin cause and effect are explicitly stated to be attached to fate.

And ei talent description hints at fate manipulation and hence cause and effect manipulation. So it might mean archons can do it.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Please can you share the scan, I still haven't done the event and might have to speedrun it due to being lazy.

here

Also in genshin cause and effect are explicitly stated to be attached to fate.

cool, prove archons can control it

And ei talent description hints at fate manipulation and hence cause and effect manipulation. So it might mean archons can do it.

show scan, i doubt its litteraly talking about controling fate, she even has description how she supposedly control stars while its damn well known stars and sky in teyvat are fake.

 

[Furina003]

This doesn't actually function as proof to claim that changing the leylines would change reality itself though, he's simply assuring the Traveler who asks "what if that memory is real?" that the abyss order didn't have the ability of altering reality just yet. I can see how you'd make the connection that by Dain saying "just yet" he's referring to their work on the leylines. However, that isn't actually solid proof and is an assumption, because it is also equally possible he's just referring to the abyss order's power on a general level (which makes sense as they are a big organization known to cause trouble everywhere they go and have plenty of power even before they started messing with the leylines in Sumeru) Also as Setsuna said, Scaramouche functions as the biggest anti feat for Irminsul having... Enhanced EE

Huh?? assumptions? The one who spoke was Caribert, the person who was the wheel of destiny itself. You have to understand that context. The only person making assumptions here is yourself. Caribert did not assume there, he mentioned the function of the wheel of destiny, where the wheel of destiny at the perfect stage would be able to change the leyline and that would change the entire world.

the night lord also explained something similar

 

[Furina003]

This doesn't actually function as proof to claim that changing the leylines would change reality itself though, he's simply assuring the Traveler who asks "what if that memory is real?" that the abyss order didn't have the ability of altering reality just yet. I can see how you'd make the connection that by Dain saying "just yet" he's referring to their work on the leylines. However, that isn't actually solid proof and is an assumption, because it is also equally possible he's just referring to the abyss order's power on a general level (which makes sense as they are a big organization known to cause trouble everywhere they go and have plenty of power even before they started messing with the leylines in Sumeru) Also as Setsuna said, Scaramouche functions as the biggest anti feat for Irminsul having... Enhanced EE

scramouce is not anti-achievement at all, because the changes are not only memories, but also have an impact on physical things such as books, notes and history. it doesn't become a paradox because of the wanderer as the reincarnation of scaramouce because this can prevent the paradox itself, you should read the explanation of rukhadevatta that I have given.

Leyline disturbances can also make the flow of time chaotic, like what happened on Tsurumi Island, which made past events actually happen again in the present, and continue to happen, causing a timeloop, and you still think that's type 1 info? ha ha

 

[Furina003]

show scan, i doubt its litteraly talking about controling fate, she even has description how she supposedly control stars while its damn well known stars and sky in teyvat are fake.

here, the stars in teyvat is a constellation.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Huh?? assumptions? The one who spoke was Caribert, the person who was the wheel of destiny itself. You have to understand that context. The only person making assumptions here is yourself. Caribert did not assume there, he mentioned the function of the wheel of destiny, where the wheel of destiny at the perfect stage would be able to change the leyline and that would change the entire world.

the night lord also explained something similar

That would be cool and all if there wasn't an inconsistency in what you said

the information in the leyline is type 2 information, that's why if you change the leyline it will change reality itself.

Caribert says "it becomes a tool that can change the entire world" however, that still does not function as proof for type 2 info. You can change the world through a variety of ways, law manip, reality warping, CM, etc. The words "change the entire world" are not enough to automatically state it's type 2 info, that is an assumption my friend.

scramouce is not anti-achievement at all, because the changes are not only memories, but also have an impact on physical things such as books, notes and history. it doesn't become a paradox because of the wanderer as the reincarnation of scaramouce because this can prevent the paradox itself, you should read the explanation of rukhadevatta that I have given.

That would be type 1 info, not type 2. Unless it was specifically stated in Genshin that books and notes were treated as fundamental stuff (which afaik it isn't)

Leyline disturbances can also make the flow of time chaotic, like what happened on Tsurumi Island, which made past events actually happen again in the present, and continue to happen, causing a timeloop, and you still think that's type 1 info? ha ha

Breh...I think you're severely misunderstanding other abilities and just classifying them as type 2 info, making disturbances in the flow of time can be achieved through so many different things I won't even bother listing them all. Point is, none of this serves as evidence for type 2 info

 

[Furina003]

That would be cool and all if there wasn't an inconsistency in what you said

try to explain why it is inconsistent? It has been explained in detail by Rukha that erasing it will cause a paradox, which is a change in the past that will affect reality but he prevented it by creating Nahida, that is also what happened to Scaramouce,

There is a lot of evidence that changes in leylines have an impact on reality, now try to explain to me why they are not consistent? Is this just your assumption?

Caribert says "it becomes a tool that can change the entire world" however, that still does not function as proof for type 2 info. You can change the world through a variety of ways, law manip, reality warping, CM, etc. The words "change the entire world" are not enough to automatically state it's type 2 info, that is an assumption my friend.

You have to understand what a leyline is, a leyline is a conceptual network in which the information of all teyvat is contained within it, therefore why you manipulate the leyline is the same as you manipulate the information within it. and when you manipulate the information within the leyline itj impacts physical reality. You can be sure that the information is fundamental or type 2 information

That would be type 1 info, not type 2. Unless it was specifically stated in Genshin that books and notes were treated as fundamental stuff (which afaik it isn't)

Breh...I think you're severely misunderstanding other abilities and just classifying them as type 2 info, making disturbances in the flow of time can be achieved through so many different things I won't even bother listing them all. Point is, none of this serves as evidence for type 2 info

how can you think that it's info 1? whereas it affects reality, that's why I show changes in the timeline because of changes in the leyline, because time is one of the fundamentals that shape reality, and it will change if you manipulate the leyline which means that the information on the leyline is not type 1 information but type 2 because this has a fundamental effect.

 

[Rayfire]

This makes sense, i agree for now

 

[Aseka]

Good reasoning, agree for OP

 

[OmniScalator]

cool, prove archons can control it

show scan, i doubt its litteraly talking about controling fate, she even has description how she supposedly control stars while its damn well known stars and sky in teyvat are fake.

it literally is,
her elemental skill description says,
"Beings of great divinity might affect all that they survey, and the Electro Archon can manipulate the very inauspicious stars themselves to defend her retainers and bring a thundering sentence down on their foes."
-source

in CN it says,
「手眼」之意，本指大神通者，其指大神通者，其所见即是其所作为。雷神可以部署「凶星之手眼」，使其加护眷属，代行雷罚。
-source

which is coherent with English translation.

here Inauspicious stars doesn't mean literal stars here they are talking about astrology stars. the term "Inauspicious stars" means misfortune, and it implies she have fate manipulation which means other archons might also be able to manipulate fate, but i don't have solid proof for others though as this power can not be chain scaled Imo.

 

[Weaver261]

it literally is,
her elemental skill description says,
"Beings of great divinity might affect all that they survey, and the Electro Archon can manipulate the very inauspicious stars themselves to defend her retainers and bring a thundering sentence down on their foes."
-source

in CN it says,
「手眼」之意，本指大神通者，其指大神通者，其所见即是其所作为。雷神可以部署「凶星之手眼」，使其加护眷属，代行雷罚。
-source

which is coherent with English translation.

here Inauspicious stars doesn't mean literal stars here they are talking about astrology stars. the term "Inauspicious stars" means misfortune, and it implies she have fate manipulation which means other archons might also be able to manipulate fate, but i don't have solid proof for others though as this power can not be chain scaled Imo.

I agree with this. Although it should be more like limited fate manipulation that only scale to Electro Archon. I don't agree with other archon scaling to this though unless a scan proving this arise.

 

[OmniScalator]

here

and as for what Ei said in event is a different story when you listen to previous line too, here

here she is talking that "Even gods can not sever the link between cause and effect" but you need to know the context, she is talking about Consequences of her action in Plane of Euthymia, and now how people fear her or what loses people had, she said even God(she) can not avoid those.

so basically if we interpret what she said in simple terms is that "if there is a cause there would be effect" or "there are consequences of actions"

 

[Furina003]

there is the word, being with divinity, I think this is for all characters who have divinity

 

[Weaver261]

there is the word, being with divinity, I think this is for all characters who have divinity

No it's not. Beings of great divinity might affect all that they survey meaning they have some sort of unique traits that is allowing them to affect all that they survey and for the electro archon case, it's controlling bad omens. This line alone doesn't necessarily indicate all archons have the same ability. You will need more solid proof than this

Also about Archon also being bound to fate is pretty obvious when they have their constellations. Having constellation means their fate is controlled by the heavens.

 

[Shey]

i agree with op and woomica
Also things like "With that said, all allogenes are automatically granted Supernatural Willpower and Empowerment." Supernatural will isnt justified here
AND Fate Manipulation & Causality Manipulation (The Yakshas, with the paragon being Xiao, are predominately reowned for their purge against evil and divine karma this is also another example as it relies on nominal fallacy to grant the ability and said karma has nothing to do with the actual meaning of karma, its just corruption from lingering wrath of gods and monsters

There so much more bullshit that got blindly passed that the OP doesnt cover

 

[PedjaTarzan]

i agree with op and woomica
Also things like "With that said, all allogenes are automatically granted Supernatural Willpower and Empowerment." Supernatural will isnt justified here

It is but wrongly, simply having big willpower to get blessed by gods isnt enough for supernatural willpower
easiest case of Supernatural willpower is furina
Instead i think all allogenes should have Blessed instead, as its said that visions are blessing from gods

AND Fate Manipulation & Causality Manipulation (The Yakshas, with the paragon being Xiao, are predominately reowned for their purge against evil and divine karma this is also another example as it relies on nominal fallacy to grant the ability and said karma has nothing to do with the actual meaning of karma, its just corruption from lingering wrath of gods and monsters

This should just be changed to corruption, its litteraly in profiles that karmic effect cause corruption, nothing about fate and causality

There so much more bullshit that got blindly passed that the OP doesnt cover

khm khm BDE Archons

 

[Furina003]

No it's not. Beings of great divinity might affect all that they survey meaning they have some sort of unique traits that is allowing them to affect all that they survey and for the electro archon case, it's controlling bad omens. This line alone doesn't necessarily indicate all archons have the same ability. You will need more solid proof than this

OK, i think then just leave it for raiden, and delete it on the physiology page.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

There so much more bullshit that got blindly passed that the OP doesnt cover

i know it is going to be lot of work removing the bullshit you know who passed it.

 

[OmniScalator]

i know it is going to be lot of work removing the bullshit you know who passed it.

Who passed it? Karmic debt is obviously something like corrosion and not causality or anything

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

try to explain why it is inconsistent? It has been explained in detail by Rukha that erasing it will cause a paradox, which is a change in the past that will affect reality but he prevented it by creating Nahida, that is also what happened to Scaramouce,

I stated why, that line and the second one were meant to be read as one sentence really. Also the change in the past is caused by memory alteration, not literally changing the past through actual time travel or something (hence why only people native to Teyvat are affected)

There is a lot of evidence that changes in leylines have an impact on reality, now try to explain to me why they are not consistent? Is this just your assumption?

Nobody is saying that leylines can't change reality, what is inconsistent is you attributing the change in reality to info type 2. Based on the evidence presented, it's not. It's that simple.

You have to understand what a leyline is, a leyline is a conceptual network in which the information of all teyvat is contained within it, therefore why you manipulate the leyline is the same as you manipulate the information within it. and when you manipulate the information within the leyline itj impacts physical reality. You can be sure that the information is fundamental or type 2 information

Yeah except, if you go on the genshin wiki and look at the leyline page it does not say that anywhere. It legit says and I quote;

"The Ley Lines were created by the Heavenly Principles to protect Teyvat from the corrosion of the Abyss. They record memories of the land, and disturbances in Ley Lines can allow others to experience the memories flowing within them"

No where in here, does it actually say the leylines are a "conceptual network" or that it's "information correlated to reality" literally all it says is that it carries and records memories.

how can you think that it's info 1? whereas it affects reality, that's why I show changes in the timeline because of changes in the leyline, because time is one of the fundamentals that shape reality, and it will change if you manipulate the leyline which means that the information on the leyline is not type 1 information but type 2 because this has a fundamental effect.

Incorrect, no where does it state that type 1 info cannot affect reality (like books, memories, etc) and time if it has strong enough potency. The fact that it can do this, does not mean it is by default type 2 info. This is exactly where you're argument falls apart, furthermore you're assuming that all type 2 info manip = manipulating reality, it doesn't. To give an example:

In a game, souls are seen as a fundamental aspect of life. Character A is able to manipulate and destroy souls, this would give him info manip type 2 yes. However, he would only have info manip type 2 for interacting with a fundamental concept (in this case a soul) in his own series. That DOES NOT mean for example, that character A's info manip has the same exact potency as Monika from DDLC. Their respective series treat fundamental information as 2 completely separate things.

Lastly, you have not actually shown any characters changing the timeline. Characters cannot change the past in genshin, no. All they do is change memories connected to all natives in Teyvat, which as a result changes how the rest of the world perceives the events pertaining to them. If they were ACTUALLY changing the past, then descenders like the Traveler would be affected. Yet, the Traveler is not affected.

 

[AyOgUyS]

My knowledge on the verse is outdated but at a quick glance, I agree with OP.

 

[OmniScalator]

I stated why, that line and the second one were meant to be read as one sentence really. Also the change in the past is caused by memory alteration, not literally changing the past through actual time travel or something (hence why only people native to Teyvat are affected)

Nobody is saying that leylines can't change reality, what is inconsistent is you attributing the change in reality to info type 2. Based on the evidence presented, it's not. It's that simple.

Yeah except, if you go on the genshin wiki and look at the leyline page it does not say that anywhere. It legit says and I quote;

"The Ley Lines were created by the Heavenly Principles to protect Teyvat from the corrosion of the Abyss. They record memories of the land, and disturbances in Ley Lines can allow others to experience the memories flowing within them"

No where in here, does it actually say the leylines are a "conceptual network" or that it's "information correlated to reality" literally all it says is that it carries and records memories.

Incorrect, no where does it state that type 1 info cannot affect reality (like books, memories, etc) and time if it has strong enough potency. The fact that it can do this, does not mean it is by default type 2 info. This is exactly where you're argument falls apart, furthermore you're assuming that all type 2 info manip = manipulating reality, it doesn't. To give an example:

In a game, souls are seen as a fundamental aspect of life. Character A is able to manipulate and destroy souls, this would give him info manip type 2 yes. However, he would only have info manip type 2 for interacting with a fundamental concept (in this case a soul) in his own series. That DOES NOT mean for example, that character A's info manip has the same exact potency as Monika from DDLC. Their respective series treat fundamental information as 2 completely separate things.

Lastly, you have not actually shown any characters changing the timeline. Characters cannot change the past in genshin, no. All they do is change memories connected to all natives in Teyvat, which as a result changes how the rest of the world perceives the events pertaining to them. If they were ACTUALLY changing the past, then descenders like the Traveler would be affected. Yet, the Traveler is not affected.

I would say genshin does have type 2 information

However it affects other verse or not is another matter

If you want I can try to give you some proofs

 

[Furina003]

I stated why, that line and the second one were meant to be read as one sentence really. Also the change in the past is caused by memory alteration, not literally changing the past through actual time travel or something (hence why only people native to Teyvat are affected)

Obviously you are wrong, because changes in the past are literally understood, not just changes in memory. that's why the book and notes change, the description of the character profile also changes because this is the history of the character conveyed by the narrator. not the character's memories, and therefore also rukha creates nahida to prevent paradoxes from occurring. So it's clear that this isn't just a memory.

Nobody is saying that leylines can't change reality, what is inconsistent is you attributing the change in reality to info type 2. Based on the evidence presented, it's not. It's that simple.

You should better understand what type 2

These characters can manipulate information that serves as a fundamental building block of reality, This information is shown to compose reality similar to how data underlies a video game world, code defines the rules of a simulation or in a fashion equally fundamental to these examples. This may allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality

So it is very clear that information that has an impact on reality is definitely type 2 information, because it is fundamental, and so are leylines which are fundamental in the Genshin world, so changing your leyline is the same as changing reality itself

Salah, tidak disebutkan di mana pun bahwa info tipe 1 tidak dapat memengaruhi realitas (seperti buku, ingatan, dll.) dan waktu jika memiliki potensi yang cukup kuat. Fakta bahwa info tersebut dapat melakukan ini, tidak berarti secara default info tersebut adalah info tipe 2. Di sinilah argumen Anda runtuh, terlebih lagi Anda berasumsi bahwa semua info tipe 2 memanipulasi = memanipulasi realitas, padahal tidak. Sebagai contoh:

However, type 1 only affects memory, not physical things in the world. you can read it for yourself here

In a game, souls are seen as a fundamental aspect of life. Character A is able to manipulate and destroy souls, this would give him info manip type 2 yes. However, he would only have info manip type 2 for interacting with a fundamental concept (in this case a soul) in his own series. That DOES NOT mean for example, that character A's info manip has the same exact potency as Monika from DDLC. Their respective series treat fundamental information as 2 completely separate things.

do not equate achievements from different fictions, because their terminology will also be different.

Lastly, you have not actually shown any characters changing the timeline. Characters cannot change the past in genshin, no. All they do is change memories connected to all natives in Teyvat, which as a result changes how the rest of the world perceives the events pertaining to them. If they were ACTUALLY changing the past, then descenders like the Traveler would be affected. Yet, the Traveler is not affected.

we are talking about information contained in leylines, not talking about time manipulation, I am showing the thunderbird case as proof that the information in leylines is type 2, not type 1 because it can impact the time dimension which is one of the lines that make up reality

 

[OmniScalator]

While I agree there is someone with type 2 information manipulation

I think it is only irminsul till now due to other's not having much statement for them

And as for irminsul it is not hard to say that it have type 2 information manipulation and as nahida is an avatar of it, she is able to borrow many abilities from irminsul Imo(however not explicitly stated it is shown in game, as she manages irminsul)

Also Descenders are the only one's who don't get affected so Imo they should have acausality type 1, type 2, type 4

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Obviously you are wrong, because changes in the past are literally understood, not just changes in memory. that's why the book and notes change, the description of the character profile also changes because this is the history of the character conveyed by the narrator. not the character's memories, and therefore also rukha creates nahida to prevent paradoxes from occurring. So it's clear that this isn't just a memory.

Except it's a change in the past through a combination of memory manip and info manip type 1. It changing books and notes does not support your argument, you're just grasping at straws trying to piece together incompatible statements and scans to get what you believe to be type 2 information manip.

You should better understand what type 2

No, you should better understand what type 2 info is. Type 2 info is not given because a character can change the world, it's not given because a character can change the past (whether through mass memory alteration or not) it's not given because you can make an area remember how it once was in the past through tools that literally record memories of all that happens. You're plain wrong it's as simple as that, because if you were right there would be a whooooooole lotta characters with type 2 info manip. Yet, these characters have completely different abilities why? Simple, because it wasn't type 2 info manip but another ability.

So it is very clear that information that has an impact on reality is definitely type 2 information, because it is fundamental, and so are leylines which are fundamental in the Genshin world, so changing your leyline is the same as changing reality itself

The fact that this literal statement is factually incorrect in of itself is hilarious. So you agree that information correlated to reality is type 2 info, but then you say that because leylines are fundamental that they would give you type 2 info manip by default? Anos (who has more overpowered hax than genshin would probably ever receive) is capable of directly manipulating the fundamental aspect of logic and order in Misfit of Demon King Academy. Guess what he has as a result? CM. You seem to seriously not be capable of grasping what type 2 info manip is. Like...it seems to be a genuine herculean task for you, I'm shocked and feel sorry.

However, type 1 only affects memory, not physical things in the world. you can read it for yourself here

No, this is again a case of you being wrong. There are characters capable of affecting reality with type 1 info manip, what are you yapping about?

do not equate achievements from different fictions, because their terminology will also be different.

Uhhh? Okay...then don't use counterarguments from the abilities page on the vs wiki site that do nothing but reference different fictions for all their abilities? What kind of argument is this? This makes no sense, that's essentially all we do on this site.

we are talking about information contained in leylines, not talking about time manipulation, I am showing the thunderbird case as proof that the information in leylines is type 2, not type 1 because it can impact the time dimension which is one of the lines that make up reality

Except you haven't proven anything, and now you're flip flopping between your arguments. You say we aren't talking about time manipulation, yet your sole argument lies around the fact that the leyline can impact time...contradictory.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I would say genshin does have type 2 information

However it affects other verse or not is another matter

If you want I can try to give you some proofs

Yeah, I'm not saying genshin doesn't have type 2 info. I'm saying the arguments presented are inadequate as proof, they are 2 very separate things