General Godzilla Discussion

[OrianGAME]

What is the source for the one shot? I remember hearing something like that before, but I don’t remember where from.

GvK novelization chapter 19

In GXK anyway, the reason he had to resort to the atomic breath was because the sand made the stomp less effective.

This doesn't prove or disprove the beam being > stats

All of Godzilla’s attacks have split second contact times with their opponent. In terms of output per second, they’re probably similar.

No? His beam has had more contact exposure in litterally every other usage

Godzilla shoves him through a building physically as well. He throws Ghidorah nearly a hundred metres as well at one point.

Again, this just means the his stats are still relative to his beam which i dont think anyone with a brain is arguing against. the AB is still stronger is what im arguing.

How does MG disprove this? Kong never gets hit by the proton scream. He gets hit by the fists but they probably aren’t as hot as the atomic breath, which left scorch marks on Ghidorah (a physical peer to Godzilla, who can get hot enough to from storms) given that they don’t seem to burn Goji’s skin. It’s a common trope in fiction (and it happens irl as well) that characters/animals/people/things can’t take high heats even if the thermal energy is equal to the kinetic energy that their body can take. For example, we accept Bakugo’s explosions as ignoring durability through heat, as they burn characters that take far greater physical attacks.

Elaborated on my Mg point here

General Godzilla Discussion

I can confirm that 1000TonsofFun's post is genuine, as I've seen the same information appear in other publications, including posts from users who have copies of the books.

vsbattles.com

Anyway, this is all pre evolved stuff. Godzilla changes in between movies. Maybe his atomic breath is greater than his physicals in KOTM and GVK but it’s definitely lower or equal in G14. His physical push on the female MUTO seems more effective than his atomic breath, as are his bites.

His AB was nerfed by EMPs in G14 that's not exacly a fair example

GXK is another entirely different form, that is specified to be like Godzilla went through a workout. We’d need to find proof that the atomic output went up proportionally to his physical strength in this form.

Evo going supercharge is both a 20x increase to his energy (AB) and stats, we know it includes stats since we know it's based on kaio-ken which is a blatant multiplier to everything as we all know, (He specifically compares the 20x multiplier to kaio-ken there's no room for interpretation)

Interview: Jared Krichevsky on ‘Godzilla Evolved’, Power of Storytelling - Kaiju United

KU Chats with Jared Krichevsky, visual effects & creature designer!

kaijuunited.com

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

GvK novelization chapter 19

This doesn't prove or disprove the beam being > stats

No? His beam has had more contact exposure in litterally every other usage

Again, this just means the his stats are still relative to his beam which i dont think anyone with a brain is arguing against. the AB is still stronger is what im arguing.

Elaborated on my Mg point here

General Godzilla Discussion

I can confirm that 1000TonsofFun's post is genuine, as I've seen the same information appear in other publications, including posts from users who have copies of the books.

vsbattles.com

His AB was nerfed by EMPs in G14 that's not exacly a fair example

Evo going supercharge is both a 20x increase to his energy (AB) and stats, we know it includes stats since we know it's based on kaio-ken which is a blatant multiplier to everything as we all know, (He specifically compares the 20x multiplier to kaio-ken there's no room for interpretation)

Interview: Jared Krichevsky on ‘Godzilla Evolved’, Power of Storytelling - Kaiju United

KU Chats with Jared Krichevsky, visual effects & creature designer!

kaijuunited.com

We currently only accept the beam getting 20× stronger on the profile, not his physicals.

 

[1000TonsofFun]

GvK novelization chapter 19

All I can see is Mark saying “that’s it for Kong” when Godzilla charges his atomic breath, which does indicate that it would be very dangerous but not definitively a one shot.

This doesn't prove or disprove the beam being > stats

Fair.

No? His beam has had more contact exposure in litterally every other usage

Not against Kong though. Which was the point of comparison originally brought up.

Again, this just means the his stats are still relative to his beam which i dont think anyone with a brain is arguing against. the AB is still stronger is what im arguing.

But if his atomic breath does the same amount of damage to an opponent (that can resist the heat of his atomic breath) as his physical strikes, such as Ghidorah, then there is no real proof that it IS actually stronger.

Elaborated on my Mg point here

General Godzilla Discussion

I can confirm that 1000TonsofFun's post is genuine, as I've seen the same information appear in other publications, including posts from users who have copies of the books.

vsbattles.com

That doesn’t address my point about heat though.

His AB was nerfed by EMPs in G14 that's not exacly a fair example

That’s not actually the case. The novel of 2014 states that the MUTO EMP stops him from using his atomic breath altogether, and that’s the only even semi-canonical source that acknowledges the EMP affecting his atomic breath.

Evo going supercharge is both a 20x increase to his energy (AB) and stats, we know it includes stats since we know it's based on kaio-ken which is a blatant multiplier to everything as we all know, (He specifically compares the 20x multiplier to kaio-ken there's no room for interpretation)

Interview: Jared Krichevsky on ‘Godzilla Evolved’, Power of Storytelling - Kaiju United

KU Chats with Jared Krichevsky, visual effects & creature designer!

kaijuunited.com

That’s the logic of a designer who was surprised that Shimo was as big as she was in the final film and who was surprised they kept Mechagodzilla’s buzz saws iirc. He clearly doesn’t have that big of an impact on the film’s story. He even states that this was his logic, not the logic of the filmmakers or Legendary. In fact, the new guide seems to suggest the opposite as he can be knocked out by a Kong who has 10x strength buff rather than a 20x buff.

 

[OrianGAME]

All I can see is Mark saying “that’s it for Kong” when Godzilla charges his atomic breath, which does indicate that it would be very dangerous but not definitively a one shot.

"That's it" means that it's the end. This is litterally saying the moment Kong get's hit by the AB it's straight up the END of his life

that's it

1. used to say that something has ended: 2. used to say that something is…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Not against Kong though. Which was the point of comparison originally brought up.

Just because Kong never got hit by an actual full output AB doesn't mean he still doesn't die from it

But if his atomic breath does the same amount of damage to an opponent (that can resist the heat of his atomic breath) as his physical strikes, such as Ghidorah, then there is no real proof that it IS actually stronger.

We don't know what degree Godzilla clawed/burned ghidorah, it's entirely possible Godzilla burned/clawed Ghidorah way more than he burned/clawed him

That doesn’t address my point about heat though.

The heat is part of the energy, if Mg has the same energy he should logically have the same heat.

That’s not actually the case. The novel of 2014 states that the MUTO EMP stops him from using his atomic breath altogether, and that’s the only even semi-canonical source that acknowledges the EMP affecting his atomic breath.

I'm not reffering to the novelization im reffering to this source

It says in plain english G14 was weakended by the EMP

I'm assuming you don't know what this is based on your reply so for minor context this is an exclusive filebook that you get from buying one of the big ass statues from EZHobi that spans from G14-GvK (It also includes MUTO Prime)

That’s the logic of a designer who was surprised that Shimo was as big as she was in the final film and who was surprised they kept Mechagodzilla’s buzz saws iirc. He clearly doesn’t have that big of an impact on the film’s story.

That's a behind-the-scenes issue, it's simply not part of his job description to make decisions for the finalized project he's just there to give the basic designs and concept art. Just because he's not all that reliable out-of-universe doesn't mean he's not reliable in-universe, he litterally designed the creatures based on canon lore (e.g: Kong)

He even states that this was his logic, not the logic of the filmmakers or Legendary.

Clearly it is since the film kept the 20x thing

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/9/93/Evolved_MonsterVerse_Godzilla_20x.png/revision/latest?cb=20240411181633

In fact, the new guide seems to suggest the opposite as he can be knocked out by a Kong who has 10x strength buff rather than a 20x buff.

The 20x only applies to Supercharged Evo

 

[1000TonsofFun]

"That's it" means that it's the end. This is litterally saying the moment Kong get's hit by the AB it's straight up the END of his life

that's it

1. used to say that something has ended: 2. used to say that something is…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Or it means he’s been downed. Also, he was farther away from Goji at that point iirc so it likely means he’d be dead because Goji had grounded/got a hit in on him. The main reason he resorts to the atomic breath is due to the fact that he can’t hit him. In fact, I remember Wingard saying Goji was toying with him in this fight whilst the second fight (where he doesn’t use his atomic breath btw) was the one where his ego was bruised and he was taking it more seriously.

Just because Kong never got hit by an actual full output AB doesn't mean he still doesn't die from it

We don't know what degree Godzilla clawed/burned ghidorah, it's entirely possible Godzilla burned/clawed Ghidorah way more than he burned/clawed him

I was talking about him throwing and shoving Ghidorah in Boston which did about as much damage and sent him flying just as much as the atomic breath.

The heat is part of the energy, if Mg has the same energy he should logically have the same heat.

He has the hollow Earth energy yes, but we know that Godzilla can somehow transfer that energy to nuclear energy and thus has different properties to MG’s attacks.

I'm not reffering to the novelization im reffering to this source

It says in plain english G14 was weakended by the EMP

I'm assuming you don't know what this is based on your reply so for minor context this is an exclusive filebook that you get from buying one of the big ass statues from EZHobi that spans from G14-GvK (It also includes MUTO Prime)

Oh yeah I heard about that. That guide seems to sometimes contradict canon though, saying that MUTO Prime is 350ft tall whilst we know she is 338ft. Seems to be partly based on info found on the internet, rather than Legendary themselves. But it does seem to get Ghidorah’s cause of defeat accurate to what Dougherty said so idk.

That's a behind-the-scenes issue, it's simply not part of his job description to make decisions for the finalized project he's just there to give the basic designs and concept art. Just because he's not all that reliable out-of-universe doesn't mean he's not reliable in-universe, he litterally designed the creatures based on canon lore (e.g: Kong)

He gets given a brief and follows it, it’s what concept artists do. He based them on canon but he doesn’t write the canon. The writers and directors do that (+the executives at Legendary).

Clearly it is since the film kept the 20x thing

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/9/93/Evolved_MonsterVerse_Godzilla_20x.png/revision/latest?cb=20240411181633

It’s not the same context though. It merely states that he has 20x the energy capacity, whereas Kaio-Ken is explicitly a 20x boost to power output. At best it’s a reference snuck in by the creators.

The 20x only applies to Supercharged Evo

It still seems to mostly apply to the beam though. His performance against Shimo isn’t that different after supercharging, save for his beam being able to make her properly flinch. Though he was able to do that before so maybe he shouldn’t even be considered 20x. That’s a whole other debate though that I’m not gonna get into now.

 

[Arceus0x]

I just noticed, MV Godzilla is Class G by scaling to...Class M characters

Also the beast glove gives a 10x boost to LS as well I noticed, meaning they actually would get Class G.

 

[1000TonsofFun]

I just noticed, MV Godzilla is Class G by scaling to...Class M characters

Also the beast glove gives a 10x boost to LS as well I noticed, meaning they actually would get Class G.

? Kong has Class G from pushing the door

 

[Arceus0x]

? Kong has Class G from pushing the door

ohhh it's in a tabber. right.

Anyways, he scales to 1.6 million tons and with the 10x boost would now be scaling to 16 million tons

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

ohhh it's in a tabber. right.

Anyways, he scales to 1.6 million tons and with the 10x boost would now be scaling to 16 million tons

And Goji and Shimo would scale to that since they're as strong if not stronger than him.

 

[1000TonsofFun]

@OrianGAME I stand corrected about the MG energy thing. I’m still unsure about the 6-A atomic breath for Evolved for the other reasons I stated, but I’m a bit more open to it now due to this. (I’m not sure if the tweet is showing up, so here’s the link for it)

Edit: actually, I think that Evo Goji should be straight up 6-A anyway. Kong is said to be stronger in GXK than in GVK and that’s before the glove which apparently enhances his strength, without even accounting for the 10x force multiplier. Despite that, Andrews doesn’t believe that Kong can beat Godzilla (or at least, she doesn’t disagree when Bernie brings up how he almost died last time) and she knows about project Powerhouse. She also doesn’t know that Godzilla has Evolved by this point, merely that he’s absorbed a nuclear power plant in France and has supercharged.

 

[Rwbyenthusiast]

Are we actually going to take the statements from this book at face value? Multiple statements contradict canon. We should only use statements that don't contradict canon

Edit: the 20 x thing is for energy storage/manipulation,it's not a 20 x multiplier for stats or dc or ap. A scan says that he's 2 times stronger in physicals

 

[1000TonsofFun]

Are we actually going to take the statements from this book at face value? Multiple statements contradict canon. We should only use statements that don't contradict canon

Edit: the 20 x thing is for energy storage/manipulation,it's not a 20 x multiplier for stats or dc or ap. A scan says that he's 2 times stronger in physicals

The 2x statement is arguably less canon than the 10x and 20x given it comes from a piece of marketing for the film in China (that mentions things like Barbenheimer as well) vs an official guide written in canon by Monarch executives and the film itself.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The 2x statement is arguably less canon than the 10x and 20x given it comes from a piece of marketing for the film in China (that mentions things like Barbenheimer as well) vs an official guide written in canon by Monarch executives and the film itself.

The 10× gap also makes way more sense since Evolved is meant to bypass the hard cap imposed by the Thermonuclear Form and I doubt Thermonuclear Godzilla is less than 2× stronger than Base Goji considering how badly he stomped Amped Ghidorah.

 

[1000TonsofFun]

The 10× gap also makes way more sense since Evolved is meant to bypass the hard cap imposed by the Thermonuclear Form and I doubt Thermonuclear Godzilla is less than 2× stronger than Base Goji considering how badly he stomped Amped Ghidorah.

I’m ngl, I also think the 10x boost could go to Amped KOTM/GXK Goji and Amped Ghidorah as well. The book tells us that there was “little doubt” that Ghidorah could wipe the earth clean of life had Godzilla not stopped him. This book mentions Skar and Shimo in the Mechagodzilla section, so it wouldn’t be that the Monarch operatives lacked knowledge of these Titans. Additionally, in GXK, Andrews doesn’t disagree with Bernie saying Kong going to get Godzilla is a “suicide mission” and Trapper says that Kong is “taking a hell of a risk” despite them not knowing that Godzilla has evolved. All they knew was that he consumed an entire nuclear power plant. Director Hampton is surprised when he evolves as well, making it clear that Trapper and Andrews have no suspicion that Godzilla already has evolved, or even that he would. It makes sense as well, Godzilla’s evolution - whilst probably partially a strength increase - is more to deal with Shimo’s freezing abilities (and seemingly give him an agility increase as well) than merely to make himself more powerful. It could also be that Kong and weakened GVK Godzilla are 10x weaker than top tier Titans (e.g. Ghidorah, base KOTM-beginning of GXK Goji, MUTO Prime) or 5x weaker than them and 10x weaker than Shimo and Evo Goji tiers, if using the 2x statement. If this was the case, all titans would be downgraded to the lower end of 6-B and it probably would be the same for G14 Goji as he merely fought MUTOs and seems to be weaker than he was even in the distant past. There’s a lot to think about with this book.

 

[Rwbyenthusiast]

The 2x statement is arguably less canon than the 10x and 20x given it comes from a piece of marketing for the film in China (that mentions things like Barbenheimer as well) vs an official guide written in canon by Monarch executives and the film itself.

I'm taking about the multiple canon contradictions that the book makes. Everything else within reason should be ok

There are several potential anti feats/contradictions

There is some good stuff like the glove being confirmed to amp and heal kong along with some cool stuff about godzila's adaptability and enhanced senses

 

[Arceus0x]

I'm taking about the multiple canon contradictions that the book makes. Everything else within reason should be ok

There are several potential anti feats/contradictions

There is some good stuff like the glove being confirmed to amp and heal kong along with some cool stuff about godzila's adaptability and enhanced senses

Potential argument

Provide actual examples please

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I’m ngl, I also think the 10x boost could go to Amped KOTM/GXK Goji and Amped Ghidorah as well. The book tells us that there was “little doubt” that Ghidorah could wipe the earth clean of life had Godzilla not stopped him. This book mentions Skar and Shimo in the Mechagodzilla section, so it wouldn’t be that the Monarch operatives lacked knowledge of these Titans. Additionally, in GXK, Andrews doesn’t disagree with Bernie saying Kong going to get Godzilla is a “suicide mission” and Trapper says that Kong is “taking a hell of a risk” despite them not knowing that Godzilla has evolved. All they knew was that he consumed an entire nuclear power plant. Director Hampton is surprised when he evolves as well, making it clear that Trapper and Andrews have no suspicion that Godzilla already has evolved, or even that he would. It makes sense as well, Godzilla’s evolution - whilst probably partially a strength increase - is more to deal with Shimo’s freezing abilities (and seemingly give him an agility increase as well) than merely to make himself more powerful. It could also be that Kong and weakened GVK Godzilla are 10x weaker than top tier Titans (e.g. Ghidorah, base KOTM-beginning of GXK Goji, MUTO Prime) or 5x weaker than them and 10x weaker than Shimo and Evo Goji tiers, if using the 2x statement. If this was the case, all titans would be downgraded to the lower end of 6-B and it probably would be the same for G14 Goji as he merely fought MUTOs and seems to be weaker than he was even in the distant past. There’s a lot to think about with this book.

Well I don't think that's the case because the B.E.A.S.T. Glove first gave Kong's regular stats a noticeable boost from that injection he received as per the book's own admission (and he was already starting stronger in GxK than he was in GvK from what I remember) and then the Glove makes him 10× stronger on top of that so the gap between Base Kong and Goji and GxK Kong and Evolved Goji is absolutely gargantuan. Not to mention the last time Ghidorah tried to fight Shimo he got his shit rocked and frozen.

 

[1000TonsofFun]

Well I don't think that's the case because the B.E.A.S.T. Glove first gave Kong's regular stats a noticeable boost from that injection he received as per the book's own admission (and he was already starting stronger in GxK than he was in GvK from what I remember) and then the Glove makes him 10× stronger on top of that so the gap between Base Kong and Goji and GxK Kong and Evolved Goji is absolutely gargantuan.

What we hear about in universe doesn’t suggest that though. We get told that BEAST glove Kong vs Godzilla is a suicide mission before the characters even know Goji has Evolved. We have amped Ghidorah, a peer to supercharged Goji, being said to be able to wipe the entire earth clean of life in a book released post GVK. And we have Shimo and Godzilla beam clashing in the GXK wall scriptures, indicating that Godzilla in the past was somehow able to be somewhere near Shimo’s level through unknown means.

Not to mention the last time Ghidorah tried to fight Shimo he got his shit rocked and frozen.

Do we know that Ghidorah fought Shimo? We know that she froze him, but all evidence suggests that Godzilla was the one to fight Ghidorah. If Shimo was there to fight him, why didn’t she just kill him? Why would she freeze him and leave him be? In Godzilla’s case we can argue he’s not strong enough and wasn’t responsible for the freezing anyway but Shimo? The Titan said to be capable of instilling fear in Godzilla? I don’t know. There’s a lot of unknowns in this era of the Monsterverse. I was hoping the book would expand on them, and it has on some but for the most part there’s still a lot we don’t know. Either way, this doesn’t matter as Ghidorah absorbed radiation from the volcano and energy from a power station in Boston, so by the end of KOTM he would be stronger than when he was frozen by Shimo anyway.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

We have amped Ghidorah, a peer to supercharged Goji

HAHAHAHAHAHA! No.

Supercharged Goji in GxK is explicitly only marginally weaker than Thermonuclear Goji and we know how that fight went even though Ghidorah was amped out of his mind. He absorbed radiation from the volcano, absorbed power from Boston and then was absorbing more energy from Godzilla after Mothra's essence entered him and despite that he got utterly annihilated at the end with no problems.

 

[1000TonsofFun]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! No.

Supercharged Goji in GxK is explicitly only marginally weaker than Thermonuclear Goji and we know how that fight went even though Ghidorah was amped out of his mind. He absorbed radiation from the volcano, absorbed power from Boston and then was absorbing more energy from Godzilla after Mothra's essence entered him and despite that he got utterly annihilated at the end with no problems.

I meant KOTM supercharged Goji. The GXK one is referred to as energised, I apologise if I’ve referred to him as supercharged and made it confusing, especially as he’s not actually supercharged yet, that would only occur after taking down Tiamat. The KOTM one is explicitly referred to as supercharged on Chapter 21, page 275 of the KOTM novel. In terms of Energised in relation to Thermo, I presume you’re referring to the statement on Energised Goji’s page? That statement occurs during Godzilla’s rampage through Cadiz, well after Andrews and the gang lose contact with the surface. It also doesn’t seem to indicate that he was any more or less powerful than supercharged Goji (I’ll call him Boston Goji to avoid confusion), merely that his state was “less extreme” than thermo. Anyway, amped Ghidorah (post power station at least) up scales Boston Goji anyway, he chokes him out with his necks, blinds him with electricity, the novel even says that he was “killing Godzilla”, with Mark wondering “What had happened” because “They had been winning” before (Ch. 22 pg284, KOTM novel).

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I meant KOTM supercharged Goji. The GXK one is referred to as energised, I apologise if I’ve referred to him as supercharged and made it confusing, especially as he’s not actually supercharged yet, that would only occur after taking down Tiamat. The KOTM one is explicitly referred to as supercharged on Chapter 21, page 275 of the KOTM novel. In terms of Energised in relation to Thermo, I presume you’re referring to the statement on Energised Goji’s page? That statement occurs during Godzilla’s rampage through Cadiz, well after Andrews and the gang lose contact with the surface. It also doesn’t seem to indicate that he was any more or less powerful than supercharged Goji (I’ll call him Boston Goji to avoid confusion), merely that his state was “less extreme” than thermo. Anyway, amped Ghidorah (post power station at least) up scales Boston Goji anyway, he chokes him out with his necks, blinds him with electricity, the novel even says that he was “killing Godzilla”, with Mark wondering “What had happened” because “They had been winning” before (Ch. 22 pg284, KOTM novel).

I mean we already made those two fight on the site and Godzilla kicked his ass so I don't care all that much. Also calling Boston Goji Supercharged when he doesn't even have the glow is absurd.

 

[1000TonsofFun]

I mean we already made those two fight on the site and Godzilla kicked his ass so I don't care all that much. Also calling Boston Goji Supercharged when he doesn't even have the glow is absurd.

Well, it’s official. This franchise barely makes sense at the best of times lmao.