Game of Thrones: Wights rework, WW additions and Dragons upgrade

[RoTt35]

According to what was said in this thread, the Night King would have Non-Physical Interaction for interacting with Bran's consciousness, and Curse Manipulation for leaving the irremovable mark on Bran's body.
Bran would have Astral Projection since when he travels through time he can separate his consciousness from his body. He must also have Animal Manipulation and Empathic Manipulation since the Greenseers, like Jojen Reed or the Children of the Forest, can calm animals and communicate with them.
By the way, Beric Dondarrion should have Statistics Amplification since every time he revives he becomes stronger than before

 

[RoTt35]

This 9-B calc of the Wights was accepted

 

[AKM sama]

And what about Clairvoyance and Non-Physical Interaction?

None of those would fit here.

Maybe Limited/Minor Stealth Mastery can work, or else put [[Stealth Mastery|Stealth]]

I don't think one instance of sneaking up on someone is significant enough to be put in page as stealth mastery, so no.

By the way. What ability would Daenerys have for turning the three stone eggs into living dragons using her Magic?

I don't remember her actively using any magic. It just... happened on its own in the fire.

Also she should have Summoning for this scene.

That's not summoning. She almost accepted her death until she was shocked by Drogon's sudden arrival.

According to what was said in this thread, the Night King would have Non-Physical Interaction for interacting with Bran's consciousness, and Curse Manipulation for leaving the irremovable mark on Bran's body.

I guess it is fine then.

Bran would have Astral Projection since when he travels through time he can separate his consciousness from his body. He must also have Animal Manipulation and Empathic Manipulation since the Greenseers, like Jojen Reed or the Children of the Forest, can calm animals and communicate with them.

Astral Projection is fine. But communicating with animals to calm them down isn't what empathic manipulation is. It's just the power of communicating with animals.

By the way, Beric Dondarrion should have Statistics Amplification since every time he revives he becomes stronger than before

What is this source? Is it a random youtube video?

This 9-B calc of the Wights was accepted

Okay.

 

[RoTt35]

But communicating with animals to calm them down isn't what empathic manipulation is. It's just the power of communicating with animals.

Just Animal Manipulation is fine then?

What is this source? Is it a random youtube video?

It's an episode of Histories & Lore, which is a series of short animated videos included in Blu-ray release of each TV season of Game of Thrones. The episodes are narrated by the actors of the show. So it is an official and reliable source

Okay.

So the Wights and the characters that scale from them would be upgraded from 9-C to 9-B?
That includes: Arya Stark, Bronn (Scales from Jaime), Daario Naharis (Scales from Jorah), Euron Greyjoy (Upscales from Jaime), Grey Worm, Hodor, Jaime (first and second key), Jaqen H'ghar (Upscales from Arya), Jon Snow (first key), Jorah Mormont, Khal Drogo (Upscales from Jorah), Loras Tyrell (Scales from Jaime), Robb Stark (Scales from Jon), Theon Greyjoy, Tormund and Ygritte (Scales from Jon)

 

[RoTt35]

Dragons upgrades

• This accepted calc would upgrade the speed of dragons from Superhuman to Hypersonic. The calc only affects the speed of the dragons which doesn't scale to any other characters.
• According to the official book "A Guide to Westeros and Beyond: The Complete Series", when the Night King turned Viserion into a Wight he transformed him into a dragon of ice instead of fire. So Viserion would have Ice Manipulation and Drogon Resistance to Ice Manipulation for resisting Viserion's ice breath.
• According to this thread, Drogon would have Resistance to Power Nullification for passing through the Night King's passive aura that nullifies fire, heat and magic.

 

[RoTt35]

when the Night King turned Viserion into a Wight he transformed him into a dragon of ice instead of fire

This would be Power Modification for the Night King? Since he transformed Viserion's fire breath into an ice breath.
By the way, the Night King's ability to transform babies into White Walkers shouldn't be Transmutation and Corruption?

 

[AKM sama]

Just Animal Manipulation is fine then?

Yes.

It's an episode of Histories & Lore, which is a series of short animated videos included in Blu-ray release of each TV season of Game of Thrones. The episodes are narrated by the actors of the show. So it is an official and reliable source

Okay, I suppose it can be used then.

So the Wights and the characters that scale from them would be upgraded from 9-C to 9-B?

I think only the wights' durability should be upgraded. Because wights are already dead, they can't feel pain and even if they break some bone, it doesn't effect them. Their tolerance to fall damage should be more than any normal human. So normal humans' durability should not scale to wights. Although, their AP with weapons and such will scale.

This accepted calc would upgrade the speed of dragons from Superhuman to Hypersonic. The calc only affects the speed of the dragons which doesn't scale to any other characters.

I feel that result is a bit outlier-ish since these speeds were never once shown by dragons ever. Never have they ever shown to create sonic booms or stuff. Lower end is much safer to apply, and for travel speed. I think I already covered it earlier.

According to the official book "A Guide to Westeros and Beyond: The Complete Series", when the Night King turned Viserion into a Wight he transformed him into a dragon of ice instead of fire. So Viserion would have Ice Manipulation and Drogon Resistance to Ice Manipulation for resisting Viserion's ice breath.

Huh! In the show, it is portrayed as fire, not ice. So?

According to this thread, Drogon would have Resistance to Power Nullification for passing through the Night King's passive aura that nullifies fire, heat and magic.

Eh? The intensity of Drogon's fire was far more than what Night King is able to nullify, which is normal fire. Resistance to power nullification seems misleading here.

By the way, the Night King's ability to transform babies into White Walkers shouldn't be Transmutation and Corruption?

Corruption.

 

[RoTt35]

So normal humans' durability should not scale to wights. Although, their AP with weapons and such will scale.

Fine, their durability with armor would also scale to 9-B? Since armor can shrug off swords, spears and axes. And that would affect the weapons and armor of all the characters?

I feel that result is a bit outlier-ish since these speeds were never once shown by dragons ever. Never have they ever shown to create sonic booms or stuff. Lower end is much safer to apply, and for travel speed. I think I already covered it earlier.

That's because we never saw the dragons traveling long distances, only in combat. Also, dragons have other feats where they fly thousands of kilometers in a few hours: Drogon flying from Meereen to the Dothraki Sea after rescuing Daenerys; Drogon flying to Dragonstone after the battle from Spoils of War.
The Low-End can't be used because it's wrong, and keeping dragons in Superhuman with the justification "faster than horses" is totally wrong. If the calc is not accepted I think the best option is to change the speed of the dragons to Unknown.
Edit: this Transonic calc of the dragons was accepted. So how would their speed be now? Transonic, up to Hypersonic in long distances?

Huh! In the show, it is portrayed as fire, not ice. So?

In the script of the episode 7 of the season 7, they call Viserion an "Ice dragon", which also exist in the books and they have an ice breath, and it is said that the Night King did the same thing with Viserion that he did with Craster's sons. So the Night King transformed Viserion into a Wight with the powers of a White Walker

Eh? The intensity of Drogon's fire was far more than what Night King is able to nullify, which is normal fire. Resistance to power nullification seems misleading here.

Wouldn't that be Resistance to Power Nullification anyways? Since Drogon's fire is so hot that it can resist the Night King's ability to nullify fire, and if any character can do the same with normal fire it won't affect Drogon's fire. Also the Night King's aura also nullifies magic, and Drogon's fire breath is magical and passed through his aura anyways.

Corruption.

Wouldn't it also be Transmutation since it changes the entire physiology of the human body into a living ice being? Or would that be part of Corruption?

 

[RoTt35]

Are these additions for Jorah fine?

• Acrobatics?
• Expert Hand-to-Hand Combatant (Easily knocked out and disarmed some gladiators)
• Supernatural Willpower and High Pain Tolerance (When he's fighting for Daenerys or protecting her, Jorah won't stop fighting until he dies. He is able to withstand several stab wounds and can fight normally without much trouble or pain despite being severely injured. He can also fight and kill very skilled warriors when he has to protect her)

By the way, what ability is this? Orell, a Warg like Bran, before dying enters the mind of his eagle and he is able to live in it

 

[RoTt35]

Can this common feat be used for the Night King's AP with Magic? Since during the battle of Winterfell he created a large snowstorm that covered the entire field

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Are these additions for Jorah fine?

• Acrobatics?
• Expert Hand-to-Hand Combatant (Easily knocked out and disarmed some gladiators)
• Supernatural Willpower and High Pain Tolerance (When he's fighting for Daenerys or protecting her, Jorah won't stop fighting until he dies. He is able to withstand several stab wounds and can fight normally without much trouble or pain despite being severely injured. He can also fight and kill very skilled warriors when he has to protect her)

By the way, what ability is this? Orell, a Warg like Bran, before dying enters the mind of his eagle and he is able to live in it

High Pain Tolerance sure, but I dunno if those are sufficient showings to justify Supernatural Willpower.

Orell is displaying Type 6 Immortality

 

[Propellus]

Can this common feat be used for the Night King's AP with Magic? Since during the battle of Winterfell he created a large snowstorm that covered the entire field

What tier is that?

 

[RoTt35]

What tier is that?

7-B (City level)

 

[RoTt35]

So if we accept the snowstorm feat, the Night King's AP would be:
Wall level, Building level with weapons (Killed Viserion), at least City level (His presence can create large snowstorms), likely far higher with Magic (Bran Stark stated that the Night King was going to create an endless night. During the Long Night, the Night King's winter and darkness covered the continents of the Known World, where the sun hid for an entire generation and people froze to death)

 

[RoTt35]

There is also this common feat about freezing the Earth, but I don't know if it is applicable in the case of the Night King

 

[RoTt35]

This Transonic calc of the dragons was accepted. So how would their speed be? Transonic, up to Hypersonic in long distances?
Keep in mind that the calc is a lowball since the dragons flew through a large snowstorm where various factors (strength of the winds, large amounts of snow, etc.) influence their speed. So their speed should be "At least Transonic".
Also the KE part can be used since the dragons collided into each other a few times during the battle, which would upgrade Rhaegal and Viserion to 8-B. Drogon's AP (49.127 tons) is very close to 8-B+ (55.5 tons), only at ×1.1297, would it be fine to upscale him to 8-B+ considering that the speed is a lowball and the little difference between the numbers? Should we also put a "higher with fire breath" to the dragons?

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Daenerys dodging a ballista bolt was calculated and accepted at Peak Human speed with Subsonic reactions. I think it would be fine to upscale the warriors to Superhuman speed since the result is not too far from that level and the warriors should be much faster than Daenerys

 

[RoTt35]

By the way, Bran Stark's stamina should be upgraded to above average or athletic since he survived a few years with few resources beyond the Wall. And the Wights should have resistance to pain manipulation since they can't feel

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[AKM sama]

Fine, their durability with armor would also scale to 9-B? Since armor can shrug off swords, spears and axes. And that would affect the weapons and armor of all the characters?

That seems fine.

Edit: this Transonic calc of the dragons was accepted. So how would their speed be now? Transonic, up to Hypersonic in long distances?

Only Transonic seems fine to me.

In the script of the episode 7 of the season 7, they call Viserion an "Ice dragon", which also exist in the books and they have an ice breath, and it is said that the Night King did the same thing with Viserion that he did with Craster's sons. So the Night King transformed Viserion into a Wight with the powers of a White Walker

I guess it seems fine then.

Wouldn't that be Resistance to Power Nullification anyways? Since Drogon's fire is so hot that it can resist the Night King's ability to nullify fire, and if any character can do the same with normal fire it won't affect Drogon's fire. Also the Night King's aura also nullifies magic, and Drogon's fire breath is magical and passed through his aura anyways.

Night King has only shown to nullify small fires in small areas, not the large fires that Drogon generally spits. It's a caveat in Night King's ability, not Drogon's resistance. If I can extinguish a burning candle with some hax, it shouldn't be assumed that I can do the same with a wildfire.

Wouldn't it also be Transmutation since it changes the entire physiology of the human body into a living ice being? Or would that be part of Corruption?

It's part of corruption. Not exactly transmutation, since transmutation generally has many uses and is not limited to human bodies. Simply corruption is fine here.

Are these additions for Jorah fine?

• Acrobatics?
• Expert Hand-to-Hand Combatant (Easily knocked out and disarmed some gladiators)
• Supernatural Willpower and High Pain Tolerance (When he's fighting for Daenerys or protecting her, Jorah won't stop fighting until he dies. He is able to withstand several stab wounds and can fight normally without much trouble or pain despite being severely injured. He can also fight and kill very skilled warriors when he has to protect her)

This is fine. Except for Supernatural Willpower.

By the way, what ability is this? Orell, a Warg like Bran, before dying enters the mind of his eagle and he is able to live in it

It seems like the ability wore off as Orell died, since the Eagle stopped attacking.

Can this common feat be used for the Night King's AP with Magic? Since during the battle of Winterfell he created a large snowstorm that covered the entire field

I guess.

So if we accept the snowstorm feat, the Night King's AP would be:
Wall level, Building level with weapons (Killed Viserion), at least City level (His presence can create large snowstorms), likely far higher with Magic (Bran Stark stated that the Night King was going to create an endless night. During the Long Night, the Night King's winter and darkness covered the continents of the Known World, where the sun hid for an entire generation and people froze to death)

This is fine.

There is also this common feat about freezing the Earth, but I don't know if it is applicable in the case of the Night King

Night King's description is too vague to apply this calc, so no.

Keep in mind that the calc is a lowball since the dragons flew through a large snowstorm where various factors (strength of the winds, large amounts of snow, etc.) influence their speed. So their speed should be "At least Transonic".

No, it's not a lowball since the timeframe is a highball. There seems to be a cut in between where the screen goes black.

Daenerys dodging a ballista bolt was calculated and accepted at Peak Human speed with Subsonic reactions. I think it would be fine to upscale the warriors to Superhuman speed since the result is not too far from that level and the warriors should be much faster than Daenerys

Seems fine.

By the way, Bran Stark's stamina should be upgraded to above average or athletic since he survived a few years with few resources beyond the Wall.

He was mostly taken care of by other people and he didn't have to move around by himself, so I don't think this is applicable.

And the Wights should have resistance to pain manipulation since they can't feel

This is fine.

 

[RoTt35]

That seems fine.

Fine, and what about characters that are able to physically knock down a Wight like Arya or Tormund?

Night King's description is too vague to apply this calc, so no.

Then do you think this calc I made about creating a worldwide snowstorm can be used? Since it is the closest thing to the description of the Night King with the endless night and his winter covering the Known World

He was mostly taken care of by other people and he didn't have to move around by himself, so I don't think this is applicable.

Yes, but the resources beyond the Wall were very limited for everyone: food, water, a warm place to sleep, etc. Considering the conditions beyond the Wall and the fact that Bran was a child, I think it's quite remarkable. By the way, should Bran have Longevity since the old Three-Eyed Raven lived for thousands of years and Bran is the new one?

Upgrading dragons to "8-B, higher with fire breath" is fine? And what would happen to Balerion, would his speed also upgrade to Transonic or would it be better to change it to Unknown?
Also, may I ask why the Hypersonic calc cannot be used? That would be the maximum speed that dragons can reach only over long distances of thousands of kilometers, and that speed wouldn't scale to any of their other stats or characters. So I don't understand what is the problem with using it

 

[RoTt35]

Night King has only shown to nullify small fires in small areas, not the large fires that Drogon generally spits. It's a caveat in Night King's ability, not Drogon's resistance. If I can extinguish a burning candle with some hax, it shouldn't be assumed that I can do the same with a wildfire.

Fine, but what about the magic part? Since the Night King also nullified the magical aura that protected the entire cave of the Three-Eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest, and Drogon's fire breath is also magic and passed through his aura anyways. Resistance to Magic Nullification seems fine?

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

So what's the reason we are using movement speed to get KE? shouldn't you just calc the speed they were moving at in the specific instances they collided with each other.

As for the Transonic stuff, my biggest problem with it, is that it doesn't make a hole lot of sense. how would someone like Daenerys Targaryen, who physically speaking is a normal human being, have a snowball's chance in hell at keeping her grip on something moving at a little over mach 1? This on its own already casts a lot of doubt for me, let alone if there is a cut.

​

 

[RoTt35]

So what's the reason we are using movement speed to get KE? shouldn't you just calc the speed they were moving at in the specific instances they collided with each other.

The dragons' transonic speed comes from them flying through a snowstorm. During the Battle of Winterfell, Drogon and Rhaegal collided while flying through it; during their battle, Rhaegal rammed Viserion, and in the end Drogon did the same.

As for the Transonic stuff, my biggest problem with it, is that it doesn't make a hole lot of sense. how would someone like Daenerys Targaryen, who physically speaking is a normal human being, have a snowball's chance in hell at keeping her grip on something moving at a little over mach 1? This on its own already casts a lot of doubt for me, let alone if there is a cut.

Are you seriously asking for sense in a verse where there are superhumans, zombies, dragons, gods, magic, etc? Did the directors know that in that scene they were making the dragons fly at transonic speeds? Daenerys has a feat that was calculated at Subsonic reactions, do you also want to downgrade that because she is just a normal human?

 

[AKM sama]

Fine, and what about characters that are able to physically knock down a Wight like Arya or Tormund?

If they can physically knock out Wights to the point that they can't get up again, I guess they can scale. But I don't remember them doing that.

Then do you think this calc I made about creating a worldwide snowstorm can be used? Since it is the closest thing to the description of the Night King with the endless night and his winter covering the Known World

The description is too vague to apply any calc.

Yes, but the resources beyond the Wall were very limited for everyone: food, water, a warm place to sleep, etc. Considering the conditions beyond the Wall and the fact that Bran was a child, I think it's quite remarkable.

We can't assume that Bran wasn't fed enough to survive at least.

By the way, should Bran have Longevity since the old Three-Eyed Raven lived for thousands of years and Bran is the new one?

If there is a statement that Bran would live for a thousand years, then yes. If there isn't, then maybe "possibly" is a better choice.

Upgrading dragons to "8-B, higher with fire breath" is fine?

Is this due to the KE calc? I thought we don't use KE calcs for that anymore. I am not sure if I remember correctly, but didn't someone mention it in the last thread?

And what would happen to Balerion, would his speed also upgrade to Transonic or would it be better to change it to Unknown?

Transonic travel speed over long distances should be fine, I guess.

Also, may I ask why the Hypersonic calc cannot be used? That would be the maximum speed that dragons can reach only over long distances of thousands of kilometers, and that speed wouldn't scale to any of their other stats or characters. So I don't understand what is the problem with using it

I've already stated before that this seems very outlier-y. The timeframe in that calc looks too generous to me and we have never seen dragons flying at speeds fast enough to create sonic booms and stuff.

Fine, but what about the magic part? Since the Night King also nullified the magical aura that protected the entire cave of the Three-Eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest, and Drogon's fire breath is also magic and passed through his aura anyways. Resistance to Magic Nullification seems fine?

Night King nullifying magic protecting the cave is different than fire nullification, so no.

 

[RoTt35]

Is this due to the KE calc? I thought we don't use KE calcs for that anymore. I am not sure if I remember correctly, but didn't someone mention it in the last thread?

Yes, it was rejected because I used the speed from another calc, but in this case I'm using the speed that the dragons have while flying through a snowstorm. And during the battle of Winterfell the dragons have some feats where the KE can be applied: Drogon and Rhaegal colliding in the middle of the snowstorm; Rhaegal ramming Viserion in mid-flight; and Drogon doing the same.

I've already stated before that this seems very outlier-y. The timeframe in that calc looks too generous to me and we have never seen dragons flying at speeds fast enough to create sonic booms and stuff.

But why is it an outlier? Dragons can only reach that speed under certain conditions, which doesn't break any scaling and doesn't affect any other stats or characters. And why would the timeframe be generous? The sunlight in areas such as beyond the Wall lasts very little, and even less if it is in winter; besides that I am using the data that state several pages. Is it a necessary condition that the characters make sonic booms so that those speeds can be applied? In addition, we never saw the dragons flying at those speeds or distances in any scene.

Night King nullifying magic protecting the cave is different than fire nullification, so no.

I wasn't talking about Fire Nullification. I meant that Drogon should have Resistance to Magic Nullification since his fire breath is magic; and the Night King had nullified, at the same time that the fire, the aura that protected the entire cave of the Three-Eyed Raven and the Children of the Forest.

By the way, should the Night King have Perception Manipulation based on this scene? Since he made the Wights able to see Bran's conscience

 

[RoTt35]

The Night King surviving without any damage was calculated and accepted at 2,207,250 Joules (Wall level), could any other character or weapon scale from that?
Can this be used for Rage Power or/and Berserk Mode for Jon Snow? It's the part of the script at the end of the Battle of the Bastards, which says that Jon was wounded and exhausted but because of his hate he was able to keep standing and effortlessly defeated Ramsey.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Seems more like a regular human's fight-or-flight mode, I can't recall if we considered that to be either back when Composite Human was a thing on the wiki

 

[RoTt35]

The script says that Jon was wounded and exhausted after the battle, that only hate kept him standing. And during the fight Jon was able to react and block three arrows before nearly beating Ramsey to death. There are also parts where it says that he didn't listen what they said to him and didn't cared who was there except for Sansa

 

[RoTt35]

In this part of the script it says that Jon is in berserker mode and fights like a madman, it also states that Smalljon Umber is stronger than Jon so that should upgrade Tormund to 9-B since he is comparable to Smalljon.
Edit: The script also says this

 

[RoTt35]

By the way, the Three-Eyed Raven should have Non-Physical Interaction and Mind Manipulation since in this scene he was able to touch Bran's consciousness and force it back into his physical body, something similar to what the Night King also did. Also since he is a Warg he should have Possession as he can control several ravens. And Bran Stark and the Three-Eyed Raven should have Extrasensory Perception since when they use their Astral Projection/Time Travel they can see each other

 

[LordTracer]

If they can physically knock out Wights to the point that they can't get up again, I guess they can scale. But I don't remember them doing that.

It looks like Arya did exactly that in the video RoTt35 linked tbh. Tormund kinda did it too, although the Wight looked like it was starting to get back up so idk.

 

[RoTt35]

In this part of the script it says that Jon is in berserker mode and fights like a madman, it also states that Smalljon Umber is stronger than Jon so that should upgrade Tormund to 9-B since he is comparable to Smalljon.
Edit: The script also says this

Tormund should be upgraded to 9-B for this reason anyways, the hit to the Wight can be used has supporting evidence

 

[LordTracer]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

We have to wait for AKM Sama to respond again