Game of Thrones Alternative Ending

[RoTt35]

History: at the moment Jon Snow murders Daenerys Targaryen, instead of Drogon appearing to do nothing, the one who makes the big entrance is her husband, Jason Momoa! I mean Khal Drogo, who thanks to a mysterious power (plot armor, like Jon) was able to survive an infected wound, being suffocated and also cremated. He swam the entire Narrow Sea by himself to return to his beloved, but he arrived at the exact moment to see Jon Snow stabbing her. So now, husband and lover are in a combat to death (Clarification! This script was not written for D&D, although it could perfectly be... maybe it was)

Match Rules (in case it wasn't clear): Post-Resurrection Jon Snow is being used, the victory condition is death and the combat takes place in the destroyed throne room with Jon at the middle and Drogo at the entrance.

Jon Snow: 4 (@Ser_Hakim_Dayne, @AnonymousBlank, @Stillwinston, @Dinamic8000)

Khal Drogo:

Drogon burns them both:

 

[RoTt35]

You can check this blog to know how skilled they are. Summary of Jon's skill:

Kingsguard (Elite group of knights who are some of the greatest and most skilled warriors in the continent) < Sandor Clegane (Easily killed four members of the Kingsguard in a row) < Adult Jaime Lannister (Implied to be most skilled than Brienne of Tarth, who is comparable to Sandor Clegane) < Gerold Hightower (Stated to be a legend, and that the current members of the Kingsguard, including Jaime Lannister and Sandor Clegane, are mud soiling his name) < Young Eddard Stark (Killed Gerold Hightower with just two moves in single combat) < Jon Snow (Stated to be the greatest swordsman who ever walked by the Northmen)

• ‌An example of the difference in skill between the knights like Gerold Hightower and the current members of the Kingsguard is when Barristan Selmy, who was in his 60s and weaker than in his prime, stated that he could kill five members of the Kingsguard like carving a cake, and he also killed a dozen warriors in a row

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Jon Snow FRA

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Sandor Clegane (Easily killed four members of the Kingsguard in a row) < Adult Jaime Lannister (Implied to be most skilled than Brienne of Tarth, who is comparable to Sandor Clegane) < Gerold Hightower (Stated to be a legend, and that the current members of the Kingsguard, including Jaime Lannister and Sandor Clegane, are mud soiling his name)

I don't think "soiling his name" concerns the skill here

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Yeah … Drogo has a lot of hype but his whole thing is fighting on horseback. Jon at 16 is considered the best sword in Winterfell, stomps four recruits for the Watch at the same time, kills White Walkers with little issue by S7, kills Qhorin Halfhand in a fight believable enough for Mance to think Jon was legit etc. Jon is also simply better than Jaime at this point who could kill plenty of Dothraki one after another at the Field of Fire with his left hand.

Drogo is also pretty cocky in this situation as his Bloodrider insulting and threatening Dany is what got him killed in the first place. Also cough no armor cough.

You know nothing FRA

 

[RoTt35]

I don't think "soiling his name" concerns the skill here

Jaime said that in the context of them being legends in the flesh and that their kind is dust now, and there's also the statement of a old and weak Barristan to back it up

Drogo has a lot of hype but his whole thing is fighting on horseback.

Well, Drogo while being unarmed, wounded and holding back outskilled a Dothraki warrior, so he's still a very capable fighter without a horse, and with a lot of experience

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Jaime said that in the context of them being legends in the flesh and that their kind is dust now, and there's also the statement of a old and weak Barristan to back it up

That still doesn't mean it's about skill.

 

[RoTt35]

That still doesn't mean it's about skill.

Except it was, Jaime was recounting their feats and combats

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Except it was, Jaime was recounting their feats and combats

No, Jaime doesn't do any skill comparisons in the video. Jaime Lannister and Sandor Clegane sullied the names of former members of the Kingsguard because they weren't true knights, not because they are less good at swords than they are. You can be a knight who has the same skill level as Barristan Selmy and Arthur Dayne, but you can be a bad knight at the same time

 

[RoTt35]

A knight is one thing, a member of the Kingsguard chosen from among the greatest knights to protect the king and the royal family is another thing. Jaime doesn't make any direct skill comparisons, but he is specifically talking about prowess in combat, not anything else. And as I said before, we also have the statement of a old and weak Barristan to back it up

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

A knight is one thing, a member of the Kingsguard chosen from among the greatest knights to protect the king and the royal family is another thing.

Yes the skill is necessary, but it doesn't change what I said. Knight of the Kingsguard or not, you can totally be considered a bad knight, even if you are one of the most skilled.

Jaime doesn't make any direct skill comparisons, but he is specifically talking about prowess in combat, not anything else

He just mentioned the combat prowess of the most famous members of the Kingsguard, in no way does that mean he is only basing it on skill when comparing them to recent members. The ancient knights he mentioned, in addition to having accomplished prowess in battle, they are also excellent knights, in terms of chivalrous value. Jaime Lannister, Sandor Clegane and Meryn Trant are definitely not examples of good chivalrous values, which is why Jaime says they soiling the names of former members, who were great.

And as I said before, we also have the statement of a old and weak Barristan to back it up

What statement?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The carving a cake one

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

The carving a cake one

thanks

 

[RoTt35]

Agree to disagree, Jaime only talked about the combat prowess of the knights and never about chivalry, if I'm not wrong that's something that has never been addressed in the show. But well, let's leave that there and continue with the match

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

And as I said before, we also have the statement of a old and weak Barristan to back it up

So, for Barristan Selmy's statement, it's not about Jaime Lannister, who was not there. Barristan Selmy's statement is about skill, Jaime's is about the code of chivalry in general, "soiling his name" does not only concern the skill, and as I said before, you don't need to have a lower skill to be considered a bad knight

 

[AnonymousBlank]

May I just point out that this whole tangent thing really doesn’t matter? At worst, Jon > old Ned = prime Jaime > Sandor > half the Kingsguard. All the above chain you guys are arguing about does is add one extra link that really doesn’t matter.

 

[RoTt35]

Agree, let's continue with the match

 

[Stillwinston]

The North FRA

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[Dinamic8000]

Jon FRA

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[Random-Helper323]

Is the statement that Jon is the best swordsman really reliable? If anything he loses against skilled enemies like that assassin guy. Is there any way he's been over hyped?

 

[RoTt35]

Is the statement that Jon is the best swordsman really reliable? If anything he loses against skilled enemies like that assassin guy. Is there any way he's been over hyped?

The statement is from years after that battle, and the Northmen consider him the greatest swordsman who ever walked, which should at the very least put him above his father Ned in skill, obviously he isn't more skilled than Arthur Dayne for example but he should be the most skilled warrior of the North

 

[Random-Helper323]

So where does Selmy fit into the equation, in regards to skill? He's better than Jaime at least, isn't he?

Also, do we have anything for Hightower (not the Police Academy character) other than a vague statement about Jaime soiling his name? Considering Jaime and Sandor both have reputations for having no honour, it would be nice to back it up with something, especially when George RR Martin has expressly stated that Jaime Lannister would have beaten Eddard rather easily.

 

[RoTt35]

So where does Selmy fit into the equation, in regards to skill? He's better than Jaime at least, isn't he?

Barristan is put as a legend along with Gerold Hightower and a young Jaime Lannister, unfortunately only Arthur has statements to be above the old Kingsguard in skill

especially when George RR Martin has expressly stated that Jaime Lannister would have beaten Eddard rather easily.

Show ≠ Books

 

[Random-Helper323]

There's also an issue with scaling based on the King's guard when Meryn Trant is one of them, Meryn Trant being a character everyone regards as weak.

It seems that blog contains two uncertain statements (Hightower being above Jaime, Jon being the best in the north), and one uncertainty with King's guard members when that group includes Meryn. The problem with scaling chains like that is that if one link in the chain breaks the whole thing does, and that scaling chain seems to have three links that aren't absolutely solid.

 

[RoTt35]

There's also an issue with scaling based on the King's guard when Meryn Trant is one of them, Meryn Trant being a character everyone regards as weak.

Only Sandor said that he was weak, who is far more skilled than Meryn, and even he's still a knight chosen to protect the king. And that doesn't demean the fact that knights like Gerold and Barristan are considered legends, with the latter being able to kill five knights like carving a cake and a dozen warriors in a row when he was old and weak. Plus Jaime itself stated that the Kingsguard is conformed by the greatest knights in Westeros

It seems that blog contains two uncertain statements (Hightower being above Jaime, Jon being the best in the north)

Gerold would only be above an adult Jaime, a young one and in his prime is at the same level than him. And I don't know why Jon's statement would be uncertain, he's considered by the Northmen as the greatest swordsman, him being above his father Ned, a warrior of the North recognized more for his honor than his skill, based on that isn't a big assumption