Funny Valentine vs Jugram Haschwalth

[Warren_Valion]

It not taking place in the jojo or bleach verse has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. When you introduce the corpse parts of mormon jesus into our world, then the corpse parts will define our multiverse because that is how they work. You could still the corpse parts in the Mario universe, or the SCP universe, or the family guy multiverse, and the corpse parts will still define their multiverse. The OP did not modify the power, only you have. Dumping SCP-184 would still effect our universe if you put it there, and unless you arbitrarily decide on random terms that it won't, it will function as it does in their universe, and the corpse parts are no different.
Where the hell this match takes place makes no difference at all, and your entire argument completely ignores verse equalization to begin with.

What are Corpse Parts? And why would they make alternative versions of Jugram exist in a world he isn't from?


And what? That's not verse equalization at all.

This is verse equalization:

"Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses. For example, mind control resistance by being a capable mind user would also work against other Verses, but mind control resistance through a strong will would not necessarily work against mind control from other Verses.

Equalization works highly on a case-by-case basis, so many relevant cases should be discussed in the versus thread itself."

Verse Equalization equalizes mechanics and powers to be the same energy, not that the location is the same.

Like having Ki from Dragon Ball and Chakra from Naruto be the same energy.


Not that the characters just have abilities work in specific cases that don't make sense logically with how their powers have been described to work.

 

[Paul_Frank]

its not jesus its dio have you never read the masterpiece Jorge Joestar

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@HST Lol

The mormon jesus thing is kind of a fan joke, because the corpse parts only come into existence if Jesus heads east through Asia and comes to America after his resurrection. Meaning, the mormons would technically be right since they say that jesus went to America.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Warren

Among other things, they are what give FV Love Train. They also define the jojo multiverse. Jugram existing in that universe means that there are infinite versions of him


That is only the baseline interpretation. Beings from 40k that weaponize the warp still have that exist in "our" universe. Characters who BFR into locations that do not exist into our universe can still use their abilities. They exist in a universe that has both of their mechanics, which would include the multiverse anyway

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Warren
Among other things, they are what give FV Love Train. They also define the jojo multiverse. Jugram existing in that universe means that there are infinite versions of him


That is only the baseline interpretation. Beings from 40k that weaponize the warp still have that exist in "our" universe. Characters who BFR into locations that do not exist into our universe can still use their abilities. They exist in a universe that has both of their mechanics, which would include the multiverse anyway

That's not how verse equalization works.

Verse Equalization would mean that if Jugram was able to get paradoxed, he would get paradoxed, even if said Space-Time rules were different in Bleach.

It does not mean that a character has the ability to affect another character with a power that doesn't work in that setting unless the rules of reality were completely rewritten and that Jurgram and Funny both had infinite variations from possible pasts in a world they are both not from.

If Funny was in possession of an object that can rewrite the rules of the universe on a 2-A scale, however, then he should have that on his profile.


And actually, now that I am thinking about it - even assuming that they are alternate versions of Jugram which Funny can use to paradox Jugram - which I still doubt - why would it work?

Jugram's Schrifft will redirect the bad fortune of being paradoxed onto Funny, who will push that bad fortune onto someone else in the multiverse.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

It does tho. Otherwise basically none of the psycher's abilities would work, because the existence of the warp is necesarry for their abilities.

You are right in this regard, unless of course the space-time outright contradicted this aspect.

It does, because a character able to summone alternate variations of his enemies should still be able to do that unless it is outright stated that they do not have alternate selves.

It isn't listed because it is inherent to the cosmology, and isn't a weapon. It doesn't really come up in combat much, unless you try to force an issue like this. it isn't listed for the same reason why Akasha from the nasuverse does not have a profile. They are not a character, and they are not a weapon.


if he could, then reflecting the missortune would just mean they collapse into eachother again. Reflecting the missfortune away doesn't mean that the other Jugram suddenly isn't standing next to him, so the laws of the universe take over again and they get erased. Speaking of which, if they got in full blown contact then they likely would not be able to reflect it anyway since they would be completely gone before they ever got the chace

 

[Warren_Valion]

It does tho. Otherwise basically none of the psycher's abilities would work, because the existence of the warp is necesarry for their abilities.
You are right in this regard, unless of course the space-time outright contradicted this aspect.

It does, because a character able to summone alternate variations of his enemies should still be able to do that unless it is outright stated that they do not have alternate selves.


if he could, then reflecting the missortune would just mean they collapse into eachother again. Reflecting the missfortune away doesn't mean that the other Jugram suddenly isn't standing next to him, so the laws of the universe take over again and they get erased. Speaking of which, if they got in full blown contact then they likely would not be able to reflect it anyway since they would be completely gone before they ever got the chace

You are equating the equalization of a power source to rewriting a neutral universe to have an alternate version of another character not from there because "that's how the power works".

There is a difference between an energy source and the location of a fight changing the abilities of a character.

Those are two different things.


No? Why would that happen? He is able to store and transfer fortune - both good and bad. The effect of the paradox wouldn't happen to Jugram because his power would prevent it from happening.

If Jugram reflects the misfortune away, that means that the effect of that misfortune - the paradox causing both Jugram's to collapse in this case - goes away, the alternate Jugram's existence is irrelevant.

And if Funny was able to grab onto a version of Jugram, wouldn't that mean that Jugram is weak enough for Funny to go near? Wouldn't that Jugram just die in the presence do to Reiatsu crush as well?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Yeah, they are two different things. I am discussing two different things, both the corpse parts, and verse qualization.

the location of a fight would not eliminat alternate realities anyway.


No, because even if he reflects the missfortune, especially if the other Jugram has that ability as well. Then they are still standing right next to eachother and will be erased again.

it isn't missfortune causing them to collapse, that's just the nature of the cosmos.

He could grab him while he was asleep for one. and two, just because Jugram is dead does not mean he the process is elminated

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Yhwach: *sees countless futures with Almighty*

Warren: Alternate timelines don't exist.

Yhwach: Am I a joke to you?

Also, Funny can throw a pacifist version of Jugram who is equally strong as the real one. Or throw a version while Jugram is standing right outside Love Train.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Yeah, they are two different things. I am discussing two different things, both the corpse parts, and verse qualization.
the location of a fight would not eliminat alternate realities anyway.


No, because even if he reflects the missfortune, especially if the other Jugram has that ability as well. Then they are still standing right next to eachother and will be erased again.

it isn't missfortune causing them to collapse, that's just the nature of the cosmos.

He could grab him while he was asleep for one. and two, just because Jugram is dead does not mean he the process is elminated

There are two different things that don't equate with one another.

Alternate futures would exist, what wouldn't exist are alternate pasts. The location of the fight would negate alternate realites in which a character who isn't from said world would have a past in. If the character never orginated in a world, then there are no alternate versions of that character in that world with different pasts. That's just logic.


Why do you think the ability will only be effective once? Where is the logic in that? Is Funny reflecting the damage of Jugram's Reiatsu crush only going to happen once, and then it isn't going to block it out anymore? No, that's ridiculous, and so is your point.

The whole point of reflecting misfortune is that the bad thing that the ability was going to cause to him is negated.

The nature of the cosmos is trying to harm Jugram - which quailies as misfortune, take away the effect of the misfortune and reflect it elsewhere, and that effect doesn't reside within Jugram anymore - that's the whole point of the power. "The nature of the cosmos" is reflected onto another person - most likely Funny in this case, luckily for him he is immune.

And again, how in the name of **** is this guy going to find Jugram? He'd have to look for one guy amongst billions.

Jugram is a Quincy who has the ability to destroy the soul with his energy - if an alternate Jugram was weak enough to be taken, then that Jugram would instantly be destroyed in soul and body - they aren't just dead, they're almost erased from existence.

You got any proof of the paradox working after one of the participants was destroyed in body and soul?

 

[Warren_Valion]

Yhwach: *sees countless futures with Almighty*
Warren: Alternate timelines don't exist.

Yhwach: Am I a joke to you?

Also, Funny can throw a pacifist version of Jugram who is equally strong as the real one. Or throw a version while Jugram is standing right outside Love Train.

I don't think you understand my argument.

It's not that alternate futures don't exist - it's that because Jugram doesn't exist in the real world prior to his fight here with Funny Valentine - he can't have alternate pasts with different histories.

He can, however, have alternate futures from the very moment he exists in the real world for this fight - so someone like Yhwach can definitely control which future fate Jugram is going to do, but Funny wouldn't be able to find a parallel Jugram with an alternate past because the character doesn't exist in the past in that world in any timeline.


If there was a pacifist Jugram, then he'd be suppressing his Reiatsu so it doesn't affect the world around him negatively, which means he would still die to Jugram's Reiatsu crush - and that's why throwing one near him is pointless as well, because it's a passive aura.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

There will be timelines where Jugram was present beforehand, and is a pacifist too. That's how infinite universes for infinite possibilities work.

Funny can alao summon Alternate Diego to stop time and throw the alternate Jugram in stopped time.

 

[Warren_Valion]

There will be timelines where Jugram was present beforehand, and is a pacifist too. That's how infinite universes for infinite possibilities work.
Funny can alao summon Alternate Diego to stop time and throw the alternate Jugram in stopped time.

No, it isn't, not in this case.

And even if it was - an alternate version of Jugram where he is a pacifist would still passively be destroyed in Jugram's reiatsu because he is a pacifist and wouldn't want his reiatsu hurting anyone, even at the expense of his own life - so he would never raise it. And again it doesn't matter since Jugram Schrift is reflecting the misfortune of being paradoxed away from himself - so it wouldn't affect him at all.


That for one isn't possible in this scenario because Diego doesn't exist in the real world, but in the Jojo world. And even if it was possible, I am almost certain that is outside help. That's equivalent to saying Goku can summon Zeno to EE his opponent - that doesn't fly in these types of fights.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

If not pacifist, then a friendly one. Funny has got indefinite tries.

Also, wouldn't that make every summoner a user of outside help? That's just how the power works, deal with it. If Goku could actually summon Zeno, I am fine with him doing that.

Also, a ton of stuff don't exist in the real world. The Warp doesn't, for one, so Culexus assassins won't get anti-hax in the real world. Funny should be able to find a Diego just fine.

 

[Seventy96]

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[Seventy96]

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[Seventy96]

BUMP

 

[Seventy96]

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[Seventy96]

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[KazuiK]

I thought this topic had already closed ... But what are the arguments on each side?

 

[Seventy96]

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