• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
3071775-3232751227-24586.jpg

3071780-8612189208-25066.jpg

3071781-0993141263-25066.jpg
 
We are never shown goku actually reacting or outspeeding it, he could've grabbed the glasses while tien prepared it

If he could react to it and knew it was light, he could've just closed his eyes or turned around.
 
I think this is a solid feat for Kid Goku's Analytical Prediction or Extrasensory Perception. This isn't a Supernatural feat or a feat of raw speed as much as it is of Goku's raw skill.
 
Don't see how it would be extrasessory perception, it could be prediction though but i think it is just skill
 
If you gonna argue Kid Goku is FTL because of Muh solar flare, then you gotta accept Frieza, Piccolo, Trunks, Androids, Goku black and Zamasu being Below Light speed cuz they got blitzed by it.
To be honest, in those cases either the characters were off guard and/or they were not aware of the existence of such technique, at least when it come to the Androids, Frieza and Zamasu.

Also the Solar Flare's effectiveness isn't due of the speed of the light itself, but rather its the intensity which its enough to stunt even people who keep their eyes closed.
 
Last edited:
And for the feat itself, i did actually calc it and the result i got was around 1.685c (FTL).

It only need further evaluation to conferm the validity of the calc.
 
Last edited:
Maybe it's speed can be further amped by the users ki. We know from Herms the solar flare turns ki into light & the lightsource becomes stronger the more ki the users have. Most of the time in DB speed grows to a simular rate with strength. DemonMitch, a calc member agreed on the calc, how many others are needed?
Goku's Staff sent him to the Moon(while carrying the Rabbit gang) & back in chapter 17. There's also Buff Roshi's Sub-Relativistic+ Kamehameha, already used. In chapter 96 he outpeeds lasers twice. The laser travels in straight lines, comes out of advanced tech/Red Ribbon Mech(there're already laser as fast & faster than light IRL. The World of DB has way more advanced teechnology), and there's also this rule.
unknown.png
 
Maybe it's speed can be further amped by the users ki. We know from Herms the solar flare turns ki into light & the lightsource becomes stronger the more ki the users have.

That looks like it is only referring to the light's intensity/luminosity rather than its speed.
 
That its true for energy attacks yes, but there is nothing in the series that suggest the same happen with the Solar Flare, which isn't a standard offensive move.
Light from these attacks also depends on a users ki, so do explosions, in fact the current MFTL+ speed calculation actually measures the speed of Goku and beerus light.
 
We are never shown Goku actually reacting or outspeeding the Solar Flare, he could've grabbed Roshi’s glasses while Tien’s was preparing the technique. Doesn’t matter whether the calc’s math is right or wrong, the feat isn’t valid.

Maybe it's speed can be further amped by the users ki. We know from Herms the solar flare turns ki into light & the lightsource becomes stronger the more ki the users have. Most of the time in DB speed grows to a simular rate with strength. DemonMitch, a calc member agreed on the calc, how many others are needed?
Goku's Staff sent him to the Moon(while carrying the Rabbit gang) & back in chapter 17. There's also Buff Roshi's Sub-Relativistic+ Kamehameha, already used. In chapter 96 he outpeeds lasers twice. The laser travels in straight lines, comes out of advanced tech/Red Ribbon Mech(there're already laser as fast & faster than light IRL. The World of DB has way more advanced teechnology), and there's also this rule.
unknown.png
 
Light from these attacks also depends on a users ki, so do explosions, in fact the current MFTL+ speed calculation actually measures the speed of Goku and beerus light.

The current Massively FTL+ speed for DBS isn't depend by the light of the explosion, It simply assume Beerus reacted to an explosion which was going to quickly destroy the universe.
 
How many of the requirements does Solar Flare actually meet?

Like one or zero?

Don't recall it ever reflecting or refracting

It doesn't come from a realistic source of light, the Herms translation says it's Ki and they form it infront of their face

The only one it really meets is being called light.
 
We are never shown Goku actually reacting or outspeeding the Solar Flare, he could've grabbed Roshi’s glasses while Tien’s was preparing the technique.

That's also unlikely, Tien would had notice it instead to continue, he even rush in the same point where Kid Goku was before firing the Solar Flare.

Meaning Kid Goku must had move only after the Solar Flare was performed.
 
Last edited:
How many of the requirements does Solar Flare actually meet?
What about Kid Goku using Roshi's sunglasses to counter the Solar Flare? That can only be possible if the light from the Solar Flare work like real light.
 
Last edited:
That's also unlikely, Tien would had notice it instead to continue, he even rush in the same point where Kid Goku was before firing the Solar Flare.
Goku could’ve easily eluded his notice by moving faster than the eye can see, which he had done at several points earlier in the fight.

Goku announced he knew the attack was coming before it was deployed, it’s more likely he grabbed the glasses before it was fired.


Moreover, I’m pretty sure the Solar Flare needs to follow our lightspeed qualifications as well.
image0.jpg
 
Moreover, I’m pretty sure the Solar Flare needs to follow our lightspeed qualifications as well.
image0.jpg
Because of the sun glasses working it meets two of the 5 requirements. 3 if it has ever been referred to as light which it probably has been so it meets 3 out of 5 requirements
 
Goku could’ve easily eluded his notice by moving faster than the eye can see, which he had done at several points earlier in the fight.
But Tien would have still realize that Goku had moved from that spot, even if he couldn't follow his movement he would have see him disappear from his view.

And in the course of the fight neither Tien or Goku could trully speedblitz the other, at most they outspeed each other in certain moments but that's it.
 
Because of the sun glasses working it meets two of the 5 requirements. 3 if it has ever been referred to as light which it probably has been so it meets 3 out of 5 requirements
  • The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
  • The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror.
  • The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources.
  • It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source.
  • It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera.
I assume you are referring tho the ones in bold, correct?
 
Last edited:
Because of the sun glasses working it meets two of the 5 requirements. 3 if it has ever been referred to as light which it probably has been so it meets 3 out of 5 requirements
Which requirements?


But Tien would have still realize that Goku had moved from that spot, even if he couldn't follow him he would have see him disappeared from his view.

And in the course of the fight neither Tien or Goku could trully speedblitz the other, at most they outspeed each other in certain moments but that's it.
If Tien didn’t lose sight of Goku then why did he think his technique worked and dash forward expecting to hit Goku?

Also, Goku moved FTE to Tien when performing the afterimage technique a couple pages beforehand.
 
If Tien didn’t lose sight of Goku then why did he think his technique worked and dash forward expecting to hit Goku?
Because he has already fire his Solar Flare and he probably couldn't see him wearing the sunglasses due of the intense light he himself generated.

Which its why Kid Goku only realistic chance to get the sunglasses without Tien notice it would be after the Solar Flare was fired, not before.

Because then Tien would had notice that he was moving away and he would had then rush in a different direction rather than in the same spot Goku was.
Also, Goku moved FTE to Tien when performing the afterimage technique a couple pages beforehand.
And yet even before that Tien could follow and react to Goku while moving at superspeed.

You also forgot that mention that Tien's afterimage techinque also worked on Goku.

So again, both Goku and Tien where clearly potrayed has having comparable speed, so suggest that Goku could have easily speedblitz Tien, especially when he was in front of him, doesn't make sense.
 
Last edited:
Oh don't worry guys, the solar flare is light, but it doesn't move at light speed. The feat is also valid, but the light not moving at light speed invalidates it.
 
Read above I exained why.
The guidebook was referring to the intensity/luminosity of the light which was depend by the users's Ki, not its speed.

Herms said:
Taiyou-Ken [Fist of the Sun]
First Appearance: Chapter 124
Category: ki manipulation
People: Tenshinhan, Krillin, Son Goku, Cell
Special Characteristics: A Tsuru-sen School technique. Tenshinhan first used it during his fight with Goku at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai [he actually first uses it against Jacky Chun]. Gathering ki in his upper body, he converts it to light energy and radiates it out in front of his face. Blinding the opponent’s eyes, this is used when retreating from battle. The amount of light is connected to the strength of the person’s ki, and the light source will become stronger the more ki the user has. The first person from outside the Tsuru-sen School to use this technique was Goku. (Daizenshuu 4, p.113)
 
And also it's speed scales to the users ki as well. This is shown when goku and beerus' light moved across the macrocosm in afew seconds.
Maybe the light of their Ki Attacks sure, but the Solar Flare isn't a standard energy attacks, you can't make a full 1:1 comparation.

Especially when that light come from God Ki rather than standard Ki.

Also, does that necessarely contradict the Solar Flare be lightspeed during that 22nd Budokai?
 
It doesn't come from a realistic source of light, the Herms translation says it's Ki and they form it infront of their face
Herms translation say that the user's Ki get converted to light, not that the light generated its actually Ki.
 
Herms said:
Taiyou-Ken [Fist of the Sun]
First Appearance: Chapter 124
Category: ki manipulation
People: Tenshinhan, Krillin, Son Goku, Cell
Special Characteristics: A Tsuru-sen School technique. Tenshinhan first used it during his fight with Goku at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai [he actually first uses it against Jacky Chun]. Gathering ki in his upper body, he converts it to light energy and radiates it out in front of his face. Blinding the opponent’s eyes, this is used when retreating from battle. The amount of light is connected to the strength of the person’s ki, and the light source will become stronger the more ki the user has. The first person from outside the Tsuru-sen School to use this technique was Goku. (Daizenshuu 4, p.113)
This is what he say.
 
Back
Top